Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra - Antique Automobile Club of America Discussion Forums

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#507853 - 05/06/08 06:02 PM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: JoelsBuicks]
simplyconnected simplyconnected Member Registered: 11/06/07 Posts: 146 Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan	Originally Posted By: JoelsBuicks The master cylinder had nearly a half-inch of sludge in the bottom and I removed and cleaned it all up with solvent...I don't recall checking the fit of the master cylinder piston...I could release the brake pedal by striking it soundly with my foot. What kind of solvent? (I hope not petroleum based.) Aahh. New information: Originally Posted By: JoelsBuicks To me, the mystery is why I cannot pull up the pedal when this locking occurs. Indeed there is no connection between the cylinder piston and the push rod and I don't see why I can't pull it up. Does this mean the rod is binding somewhere? And if so, why would relieving the pressure remedy this? Alright, now we're getting somewhere. You should ALWAYS be able to pull the pedal up. As you said, it is simply a detached rod. Or is it? If the power booster is hanging on to the rod, and the rod is in mid-stroke, bleeding pressure makes perfect sense, because the spool is held in (possibly under power assist). Pull your power booster out and test it thoroughly. You may need to detach the rod from your brake pedal ass'y. The booster should unbolt easily. If you don't have the means to test it, tell a pro what it is doing and let him test it. (Personally, I would make a vacuum hose extension, and test it myself.) I have never seen this type of power boost problem, but why not? Usually vac-boosters leak, sucking brake fluid into the engine. If you are using Silicone (DOT-5) when this happens, it turns to sand under high heat (scoring the cylinders). DOT-3 is not detrimental.
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#507881 - 05/06/08 08:14 PM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: simplyconnected]
Jim_Cannon Jim_Cannon Member Registered: 08/25/06 Posts: 234 Loc: Spring, TX	I agree with simplyconnected that the problem is the booster. It is applying and not releasing. _________________________ Jim '29 Ford Model A Phaeton (MARC #71406) '63 Riviera, Fawn Mist, Saddle Leather (ROA #9774) Jim's 1963 Riviera
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#507903 - 05/06/08 10:05 PM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: Jim_Cannon]
JoelsBuicks JoelsBuicks Member Registered: 03/10/08 Posts: 23 Loc: OK	Well I just ran a little test. First, I wanted to confirm that I could cause this condition without the car moving and I did. Second, I removed the vacuum hose from the booster and then tried to cause the condition and I couldn't under any circumstance, rolling or standing still. Probably a good indication that the booster is the culprit. One last test that I ran was to create the condition with booster activated and then disconnect the vacuum to see if the brakes released. Doing so didn't release the brakes which is consistent with the results I got earlier. If it is the booster, why would the pedal return to normal upon bleeding the pressure off the line? Sounds like I need to look at the booster. I will report back. Thank you very much. _________________________ Joel Wilson BCA #43854 36 Limited 36 Roadmaster 37 Special 47 Sedanet 60 Electra
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#507910 - 05/06/08 10:55 PM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: JoelsBuicks]
Jim_Cannon Jim_Cannon Member Registered: 08/25/06 Posts: 234 Loc: Spring, TX	Contact "Booster Dewey" about rebuilding your unit. http://boosterdeweyexchange.com/ 503.238.8882 Power Brake Booster Exchange, Inc. Vacuum Brake Booster Rebuilders 4335 SE 63rd Ave. Portland, OR 97206 This is all he does. _________________________ Jim '29 Ford Model A Phaeton (MARC #71406) '63 Riviera, Fawn Mist, Saddle Leather (ROA #9774) Jim's 1963 Riviera
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#507937 - 05/07/08 04:54 AM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: Jim_Cannon]
simplyconnected simplyconnected Member Registered: 11/06/07 Posts: 146 Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan	I'm glad you found the culprit. Faulty brakes cannot be tolorated, and I'm glad you are doing the work yourself. Sorry for the Ford Brake Booster picture, that's all I have. Two things can cause your symptoms, a bad spring (pushing the diaphram back), or a bad valve. The bad valve could be from sucking something nasty in from atmosphere, or it could be from old age. You were trying to do the work of that spring when you pulled the pedal back. Hard, isn't it? An 8-inch booster with 20 inches of engine vacuum will provide about 240 lbs. of brake assist. Check your vacuum line for brake fluid. - Dave Dare
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#507938 - 05/07/08 04:57 AM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: simplyconnected]
simplyconnected simplyconnected Member Registered: 11/06/07 Posts: 146 Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan	Good suggestion, Jim Cannon. Fair price, too. I like the idea that you deal with the guy who actually does the work. He will tell you exactly what went wrong with the old unit.
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#507960 - 05/07/08 08:35 AM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: simplyconnected]
JoelsBuicks JoelsBuicks Member Registered: 03/10/08 Posts: 23 Loc: OK	Well how 'bout that? You guys stayed until we got this figured out. And then, you provided me with a contact that will do the work. Thanks so much for your help. I hope that someday I'll be able to return this favor. Thanks again! _________________________ Joel Wilson BCA #43854 36 Limited 36 Roadmaster 37 Special 47 Sedanet 60 Electra
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#508029 - 05/07/08 02:04 PM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: JoelsBuicks]
simplyconnected simplyconnected Member Registered: 11/06/07 Posts: 146 Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan	I just want to see another '60 Buick Electra on the road again. It reminds me of my innocent days. I haven't been innocent in a very long time. Congrat's, and enjoy! I gotta tell you, I appreciate it when a restorer isn't afraid to 'find things out' about his car, by doing his own work. Too many restorers 'pay someone else to do it' and they never 'learn' their car. For restorers like you, I am tickled to help. Truth be told, we all learn by your experience. Thanks for the updates. - Dave Dare
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#508042 - 05/07/08 02:41 PM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: simplyconnected]
brh brh Member Registered: 08/19/02 Posts: 758 Loc: Illinois	It's great to help and I agree to help someone whip a problem feels good. I wish this forum was around when I was trying to beat a couple of my cars problems. Those of us that work on our own cars know the feeling of beating a problem and at one time or another have had those pesky ones that seem to be simple yet won't give up. Happy motoring!!
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#508044 - 05/07/08 02:46 PM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: JoelsBuicks]
Thriller Thriller Member Registered: 09/06/03 Posts: 2202 Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada	Originally Posted By: JoelsBuicks Well how 'bout that? You guys stayed until we got this figured out. And then, you provided me with a contact that will do the work. Thanks so much for your help. I hope that someday I'll be able to return this favor. Thanks again! To me, that is a perk of the forum and BCA membership. _________________________ Derek Thille BCA #39416, CBC, MBCC #1984 66 Wildcat Custom Coupe - "Ellie" / 62 Special Convertible / 61 Invicta Convertible / 56 Special 4-door Sedan / 52 Roadmaster 4-door / 41 Special 41SE Sedan / 29 McLaughlin Buick Model 51 2006 Buick Rainier - "Ruby" / 2005 GMC Sierra K2500 - "Max" (the hauler) Thriller's Buick Page
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#508120 - 05/07/08 08:21 PM Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra [Re: simplyconnected]
Jim_Cannon Jim_Cannon Member Registered: 08/25/06 Posts: 234 Loc: Spring, TX	Originally Posted By: simplyconnected Good suggestion, Jim Cannon. Fair price, too. I like the idea that you deal with the guy who actually does the work. He will tell you exactly what went wrong with the old unit. Yea, he really knows his stuff. Pretty quick turn around, too. Tell him I said "hi". _________________________ Jim '29 Ford Model A Phaeton (MARC #71406) '63 Riviera, Fawn Mist, Saddle Leather (ROA #9774) Jim's 1963 Riviera
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