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#499074 - 04/02/08 05:42 PM
Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
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JoelsBuicks
Member
Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 24
Loc: OK
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On several occaisions when I had to really get on the brakes, my 60 Electra brakes locked up and stayed that way for a while. These are power brakes and I thought that a thorough brake job with master cylinder kit would do the trick but it didn't fix this. Whenever this problem occurs, I am unable to pull up on the brake pedal to unlock it, I usually take a line wrench and loosen the brake line from the master cylinder to bleed the pressure. Doing this will release everything to return back to normal. Otherwise, it takes about 5 minutes of waiting for the brakes to release on their own. Has anyone experienced this or know what I should be looking at next? Thanks!
_________________________
Joel Wilson
BCA #43854
36 Limited
36 Roadmaster
37 Special
47 Sedanet
60 Electra
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#499132 - 04/02/08 08:58 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: JoelsBuicks]
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JohnD1956
Member
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: New York
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I wonder if it is debris in the apportioning valve down on the frame? Or if you have not yet replaced the flex lines ( including the rear axle one) you may want to give that a try.
Please be sure to let us know what it was.
_________________________
John C. De Fiore BCA # 3757 56 Super 56R 69 GS 400 Convertible 69 Electra Limited 2 dr.( well, no longer limited although still unique) 95 Riviera Supercharged (sold) 06 Lacrosse CXL Doing my part to stimulate the economy! Member of the UPSTATE NY CHAPTER check it out at http://unybca.skyphix.com/
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#499137 - 04/02/08 09:09 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: JoelsBuicks]
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Jim_Cannon
Member
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 235
Loc: Spring, TX
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Sounds like the brake booster is getting stuck in the "applied" position when you press really hard. You tell of using a master cylinder kit. What have you done about rebuilding the booster?
Instead of waiting 5 minutes, what if you turn the engine off? That takes all engine vacuum away from the booster.
When you bleed off pressure with the wrench, do you see the brake pedal come up?
_________________________
Jim '29 Ford Model A Phaeton (MARC #71406) '63 Riviera, Fawn Mist, Saddle Leather (ROA #9774) Jim's 1963 Riviera
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#499165 - 04/02/08 10:33 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: Jim_Cannon]
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Pete Phillips
Member
Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 701
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There are at least a dozen possible causes for this. I've experienced it most often when one of the rubber brake hoses has collapsed inside, even though it may look fine on the outside. The inner passage collapses after years of exposure to brake fluid, and this does not allow the pressure to be released from the wheel cylinder. It can also be caused by sticky or rusty wheel cylinders, if you have not rebuilt or replaced those in many years. Weak return springs could also cause it.
Pete Phillips, BCA #7338
Sherman, TX
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#499186 - 04/02/08 11:27 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: Jim_Cannon]
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JoelsBuicks
Member
Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 24
Loc: OK
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Regarding the booster, I haven't done anything to it at all. I can tear into it but I'm not sure what I'd be looking for. I'll check my repair manual. I have tried removing the vacuum hose on the booster to see if it helps it relieve quicker and it doesn't. When I bleed the fluid pressure in order to get it to release, the pedal always returns to its up position (although I haven't witnessed it because I don't have direct sight whilst relieving the pressure). I have not changed the three rubber hoses and probably should but I wouldn't expect a bad hose to cause all four wheels to lock up. My recent brake job did include polishing all wheel cylinders, new shoes and turned drums. I'm somewhat puzzled by the fact that I cannot just reach down and pull up the pedal - almost like something is blocking a relief passage. Any other thoughts? Thank You!
_________________________
Joel Wilson
BCA #43854
36 Limited
36 Roadmaster
37 Special
47 Sedanet
60 Electra
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#499363 - 04/03/08 03:42 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: JoelsBuicks]
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JohnD1956
Member
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: New York
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I had some problems with my 69 Electra like this. The car had a broken brake line and sat for close to 3 years. When I took it out after changing all the brake lines from the apportion valve to the wheels, including all the flex hoses, the brakes locked up on me and would not release. In my case I found NAPA had rebuilt cylinders so cheap it was easier to just replace mine, and that corrected the problem. Of course, the 1960 MC may not be so readilly available.
_________________________
John C. De Fiore BCA # 3757 56 Super 56R 69 GS 400 Convertible 69 Electra Limited 2 dr.( well, no longer limited although still unique) 95 Riviera Supercharged (sold) 06 Lacrosse CXL Doing my part to stimulate the economy! Member of the UPSTATE NY CHAPTER check it out at http://unybca.skyphix.com/
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#499403 - 04/03/08 07:01 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: JohnD1956]
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ZondaC12
Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 945
Loc: Guilderland, NY
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What's an "apportion valve"? Naturally it sounds similar to "proportioning valve" and I know those exist in more modern cars to give more brake bias to the fronts, but I'm afraid I haven't heard of this one!
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Paul Tariello III BCA #41445 1938 Buick Special Model 41 Whistler Grey original, 86k miles, in my family since '68  Resurrected in May '05 after 25 years of slumber! Thanks Dad.
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#499462 - 04/03/08 10:23 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: ZondaC12]
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JohnD1956
Member
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: New York
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I may have gotten it wrong. We are talking about the same part I believe.
_________________________
John C. De Fiore BCA # 3757 56 Super 56R 69 GS 400 Convertible 69 Electra Limited 2 dr.( well, no longer limited although still unique) 95 Riviera Supercharged (sold) 06 Lacrosse CXL Doing my part to stimulate the economy! Member of the UPSTATE NY CHAPTER check it out at http://unybca.skyphix.com/
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#506115 - 04/29/08 05:14 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: JoelsBuicks]
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Mzdafrk
New Member
Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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I was searching on Google and found this topic. I am not trying to thread jack the topic, this is the closest problem I have found to what I am dealing with, so I am very interested. I have been searching for weeks, and this is the same problem I am having on a 1956 Desoto.
I was having a problem with the brake pedal falling to the floor, so I replaced the Master Cylinder, Bleed all 4 Drums, Flushed all the fluids, and found a leak in the booster, SO I sent it out and had it rebuilt. A few weeks later I got it back, and put it in. Then it sat for a couple weeks.
I decided to drive it on a nice day, I noticed that the Pressure switch on the master cylinder, to turn the brake lights on, was activated and the brake lights were on. I tried fiddling with the switch but nothing made the lights go off. So I started up the car, and tried to move and the brakes felt very stiff. SO I figured it was time to get the car home, I was only a few miles away. When I started it back up the brakes locked up completely. I was sitting in a parking lot so I tried to move forward and backward but was not able to move.
I then Borrowed a line wrench and bled the pressure off the master, everything returned to normal. So I drove the car home and parked it.
I went out the other day and the brake lights were on again...?!
I have been searching for similar problems, but couldn't find any until I found this thread. We are experiencing almost the same problem, and I am stumped. I have all new parts, and the brakes are locking up?
New Vacuum Canister, New Master Cylinder, New Brake Booster, flushed all the fluid, bled thoroughly. Any Ideas???
All I have come up with so far is that one of the parts is defective inside the master, and is not releasing pressure, so every time I step on the brake pedal it creates more pressure until it eventually locks up. But I question that theory simply because that doesn't seem right. I am open to trying different things to try and fix it, and will give any updates when I figure something out.
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Jeremy Timmins is my real name...
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#506533 - 04/30/08 11:59 PM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: Mzdafrk]
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JoelsBuicks
Member
Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 24
Loc: OK
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My brake problem may be a little different. My pedal doesn't fall to the floor. If I am making a hard stop, I reach a point in braking where my wheels lock up and stay that way until I use the line wrench to bleed the pressure. At the point just before the brakes lock up, it seems as if another force (sounds rediculous) takes over and sucks the pedal down to make the wheels lock up. This is rather unsettling because I lose most of my control with the wheels lock up. Somehow, pressure in the line coming from the master cylinder is not being relieved after a hard stop. And, with all my strength I cannot pull up on the pedal to "reset" it. It sure points to the booster. Maybe I'll unhook the vac hose and see if I can duplicate the problem. I'd sure like to narrow it down before I start on this.
_________________________
Joel Wilson
BCA #43854
36 Limited
36 Roadmaster
37 Special
47 Sedanet
60 Electra
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#506773 - 05/02/08 03:42 AM
Re: Brakes locking up on my 60 Electra
[Re: 64BuickCat]
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simplyconnected
Member
Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 175
Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan
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That diagram works for a single stage, too. (just look at the front half.) Good picture, Pete!
I have some silly questions about the condition of this fluid:
Did any petroleum product get (fall) in the reservoir?
Was DOT3 and DOT5 mixed, or changed over?
Did dirt get in? Or, a small lump of greasy dirt?
Something is going on with the spool-valve seals. They may have swollen, perventing the spool from returning properly. That would prevent the spool from un-covering port 3 (or 6). In any event, #9-spring cannot retract the spool.
Just a suggestion; make sure your brake pedal return spring causes the rod to return.
If all the wheels are locking up, I can't believe all three hoses went bad at the same time.
If it's raining outside, I never open my reservoir cover, not even to work on it. Cover the area with rags. Brake fluid will eat your paint. Water will wash it away, but don't let any water in your system. - Dave Dare
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