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#499054 - 04/02/08 04:24 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: Dave@Moon]
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Reatta Man
Member
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
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Or, here's an idea....we fight ALL of the fees in the first place!
_________________________
"If you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat."
--President Ronald Reagan
BCA #35668
1965 Wildcat Convertible
1970 GS coupe (AKA "the project in the garage")
2000 Park Avenue Ultra
2003 Impala (Buick-powered, 3.8 engine)
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#499055 - 04/02/08 04:26 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: Reatta Man]
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Dave@Moon
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 7373
Loc: Fairfield (Cincinnati), OH
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Or, here's an idea....we fight ALL of the fees in the first place!
So we don't come off like neanderthals.
_________________________
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
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#499058 - 04/02/08 04:31 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: Dave@Moon]
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Reatta Man
Member
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
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Or name callers.......
_________________________
"If you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat."
--President Ronald Reagan
BCA #35668
1965 Wildcat Convertible
1970 GS coupe (AKA "the project in the garage")
2000 Park Avenue Ultra
2003 Impala (Buick-powered, 3.8 engine)
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#499084 - 04/02/08 06:21 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: Dave@Moon]
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ZondaC12
Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 944
Loc: Guilderland, NY
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Every time I read something like this I'm glad I don't live out there.
If it were me in that situation with an SUV or other gas-sucker I'd just pay the fine. I will NOT cave into government pointing a finger at me and telling me YOU WILL stop driving that and drive something more efficient and clean. My God, last I checked I didn't live in Soviet Russia.
Espeically when there's still no solid conclusion either way on the whole warming deal, at least for me. I mean the hottest year of the last century was 4 years before my Buick was bought new anyhow! (Well, after NASA quietly corrected their data last August).
_________________________
Paul Tariello III BCA #41445 1938 Buick Special Model 41 Whistler Grey original, 86k miles, in my family since '68  Resurrected in May '05 after 25 years of slumber! Thanks Dad.
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#499155 - 04/02/08 10:08 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: Dave@Moon]
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ZondaC12
Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 944
Loc: Guilderland, NY
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Well that's all fine and good but I just can't bring myself to feel that "grim" about it. Again it's just me personally, but I just don't see this apocalyptic fate looming over us. Hell, if the seas being a foot or two higher a hundred years from now is the worst of it....well I'll stay myself away from the coast! And if I lived there, I'd make that not the case anymore.
Also...so NASA shouldn't be trusted? Just because most climate scientists rely on NOAA makes NASA's data completely invalid? Also, then who's right? I mean that's just experimental error etc. There's what the actual temperatures were and what whomever, wherever, measured it to be.
LOL I just thought an organization like NASA might command a little more authority!
_________________________
Paul Tariello III BCA #41445 1938 Buick Special Model 41 Whistler Grey original, 86k miles, in my family since '68 Resurrected in May '05 after 25 years of slumber! Thanks Dad.
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#499174 - 04/02/08 10:51 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: ZondaC12]
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Dave@Moon
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 7373
Loc: Fairfield (Cincinnati), OH
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Paul, everyone knows who's right if they're paying attention. There's litterally far more support in the scientific community for a flat earth than there is for the professional anthropromorphic (man-made) global warming "doubters". The reason you're talking about the absurd rantings of a few (less than a dozen, tops) "scientists" of varying qualifications is because they have very well-funded sponsors in the oil and mining industry, mainly Exxon-Mobil, spreading their gospel as loud and far as they can. (Even among the oil industry majors there are serious efforts to combat the propoganda these people create, such is the dubiousness of these efforts.)
I have a Master's Degree in the environmental sciences, and was studying this problem 25 years ago before the predictions started coming true. I have an advantage in that way, but that doesn't mean that you have to spend that kind of time to realize the danger. Any genuine investigation into the facts and the qualifications of those who compile them on both sides will come to a reasonable conclusion.
However, if you still want to think that the "doubters" are credible because they can afford a better bullhorn than the tens of thousands of real scientists working on this problem for Associate Professor wages, fine. Just keep watching Fox News and pretending. But don't think that it makes for much of an argument among others, or that it will disuade in any way the comming of more governmental efforts like the one currently proposed in SoCal.
In the mean time the rest of us will need to keep vigilant to make sure our baby isn't thrown out with the bath water in the serious efforts of the rest of the world to combat this problem. If we have to do that with a bunch of people standing behind us shouting that there is no problem then it's going to make the job a lot harder, kind of like showing up drunk for DUI hearing. 
_________________________
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
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#499189 - 04/02/08 11:44 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: Dave@Moon]
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ZondaC12
Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 944
Loc: Guilderland, NY
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Well I respect where you're coming from and the field you're in. I don't have any desire to go back and forth here I think we don't need that (why was Misc. Chat eliminated?  ).
Just thought I'd mention that to keep things civil and to not seem like I ducked out and didn't even bother to read what you wrote. 
I brought up that NASA thing only because I was aggravated that the changes were quiet and recieved no mainstream media coverage from ANYone, that I recall. (And generally in my household my mom and I do watch Fox and it was the summer so I was around, not at school and not even they mentioned it).
_________________________
Paul Tariello III BCA #41445 1938 Buick Special Model 41 Whistler Grey original, 86k miles, in my family since '68 Resurrected in May '05 after 25 years of slumber! Thanks Dad.
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#499333 - 04/03/08 02:35 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: ZondaC12]
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ted sweet
Member
Registered: 09/27/01
Posts: 941
Loc: albany NY
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i am still waiting for ice age predicted in the mid 70s.
_________________________
1974 Plymouth Cuda-360 Auto
1991 Chysler Lebaron Vert
1973 Dodge Dart Swinger-318 Auto
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T-440 Auto
1968 Chrysler 300 Convertible-440 Auto
1994 Ford Taurus SHO
1966 Chrysler Newport-383 auto
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#499575 - 04/04/08 01:45 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: ted sweet]
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Dave@Moon
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 7373
Loc: Fairfield (Cincinnati), OH
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i am still waiting for ice age predicted in the mid 70s.
Why? 
Are you still waiting for the mid-engine Corvette and AMX3? That would make just as much sense, especially since both were predicted at that same time with far more certainty than any ice age. Just as any expert in that field would let those predictions go (as would the enthusiasts who follow cars), so would any climatologist let predictions about any imminent ice age go (as would any reasonable person who values knowledge).
And, just as giving up on the mid-engine AMX3 coming out doesn't mean the prediction for a redesigned Prius for next year is bunk, so giving up on an imminent ice age doesn't mean that the current thinking among virtually all scientists is bunk as well.
===================
That said I didn't mean for this thread to be a debate over global warming. That's over anyway.
I'm concerned about how efforts to combat global warming may effect the car hobby. Throwing a near $100/yr. defacto tax on our cars is a big deal for most of us. A big deal we may be stuck with if we're too stubborn or limited to concede the need the for the tax, and to therefore argue persuasively that we shouldn't be it's victims.
There are going to be more measures, for sure. The 3 remaining Presidential candidates (Obama, Clinton, & McCain) are among the strongest supporters of anti-global warming initiatves. Be prepared for more "fees", "tolls", and restrictions to come. Many more.
There's a good reason why I titled this thread "A Beginning"!
_________________________
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
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#505776 - 04/28/08 01:59 PM
Re: A Beginning
[Re: Skyking]
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HurstGN
Member
Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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OK, I did read the article, and it made my blood boil! These (insert explitive here) public officials and their "tax the hell out of us" attitude is ridiculous. I don't know what the CA MTA issues are, but if they're ANYTHING like what we see in Pittsburgh, it's mass transit that's the cause of alot of problems.
Here, we have unions that dictate what kind of vehicles must be driven by their union members. So bus routes into rural areas are driven by senior level union members and they MUST drive the big busses. No smaller transporter vans for them. Well, I'd often see the bus drive by with at most 2 people on it. Now, lets see, an 80 passenger bus with a driver getting paid waaay too much and 2 passengers. Wow, that's environmentally, fiscally, and any other way NOT right. But wait, it gets better.
Well, we can't afford to run all the bus routes we have (DUH!), so we'll have to cut back and that will mean more emissions in the air, so you better fund our bus routes. Uh, last time I looked, the bus was empty. CANCEL THE ROUTE! It'll make the air cleaner and reduce fuel consumption as I see it. But wait, it gets better.
OK, we can't figure out a solution like smaller public transit vehicles, so routes got cut. But the union agreement means pay raises, so we really didn't save anything. We need $30 million more a year to keep in the black. Let's pass a 10% poured alcohol drink tax to make up that money. Yea, it's a sin to drink, so, that's an easy one to pass. (I don't drink, but I don't approve of the tax either in case you wondered.) The first month realized more tax dollars than initially expected. Wow, this must be a good thing we've done. Mass transit is saved. But wait, it gets better.
You must understand our topology here a little for this last topper. We have 3 rivers that converge forming a Y shape. The Allegheny river and the Monongahela River come together and form the Ohio river. OK, we need to get from one side of the river (downtown Pittsburgh) to the north side of the Allegheny river. Well, what's the best way to get there? I'll give you a hint...Pittsburgh is nicknamed the "City of Bridges" because we have so many bridges over our rivers and tributaries. OK, so, how do we cross the river? A bridge you say. MUHAHAHAH, you fool! How stupid can you be? No, a bridge is inexpensive and goes over the water in the air. Haven't you been watching the discovery channel? We have to make a tunnel UNDER the river!! Think Boston and the Big Dig. Think tunnel boring machine. Now you got it. Last we heard, this was a $485 Billion (yes, with a B) project, 80% of which comes from the federal government. So we only need to find 20% to do this. Did I mention that they think the fare to take the new tunnel to the north side is only going to be a few dollars. We've heard $5, we've heard $10. In any case, they want this to go to the stadiums, Heintz Field for the Steeler games and PNC Park for the Pirates. How many times have you seen somebody take tailgating supplies on a subway car to a game. Is there a surcharge for the keg and grill? Oh, and the Pirates, the team that barely draw 5,000 people total for a game. Ahem, real load of big spenders there to take the new subway tunnel. We're opening a casino over there too sometime (when, we don't know...it's become a mess too). But how many casio high rollers do you see taking public transportation to the casino. If you can't afford to drive to the casino, you won't be able to afford the trip home on the subway after losing your last dollar on a slot machine. Yea, we can't afford to keep public transit afloat, but we're creating jobs to dig a useless tunnel. Oh, maintenance costs of the tunnel, we never got an explaination for that.
Yup, we better start forking over extra dollars to help keep mass transit afloat. Hrmm, afloat, ironic term as they dig a tunnel under a river. Yes, big empty busses using fuel at an alarming rate while not carrying passengers is the way to go. Uh, if it were so lucrative to run this mass transit system, why doesn't a private business get involved?
How about this, lets quit wasting money, energy, and other resources on frivolous government projects. Treat this like a business. If it's profitable, do it. If it's a loser, give it up and find another way.
OK, I'm done ranting for now.
_________________________
Visit the Pittsburgh Tri-Shields from your PC Dan McCann BCA #34734 October 2007 Hemmings Muscle Machines Feature Car - 1982 Turbocharged Grand National
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