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#495935 - 03/20/08 03:07 PM
1916 Buick 'Busselback'
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72caddy
Member
Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 19
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An aqantence of mine of several years that buys/sells cars at a fever pitch recently aquired this car - which
I seem captivated by. I do not have any experence with restoring a car of this vintage and probably didn't ask all the 'right' questions.
It is complete but a needs everyting. Not a rust bucket or covered in surface rust (but does have surface patches of rust on the body). No top.
Are there any major issues I should check out before pursueing this? Parts ahard to come by? etc?
Any advice would be appreciated. As well as a ballpark range of what to offer or negiociate to for a car of this type.
Thanks in advance
Edited by 72caddy (03/20/08 03:08 PM)
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#495995 - 03/20/08 07:35 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: 72caddy]
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JO BO
Member
Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 106
Loc: Billings MT 59101
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Hi; Good questions you ask. I would start by asking yourself how far do you want to go with this car? e.g. fix up to putt around with,restore to show or display etc.. Consider how original you wish to keep her. Then consider your budget,how much of the work you can..or want to do yourself. Find all the available literature you can for your car. Enlist the help of those who own or have restored this particular make/model.(They are often good sources for parts). Before you remove even one bolt get your notebook and camera ready to document every step you take in dissasembly so you can put her back together the way she came apart. Be prepared for surprises , they will come. Above all have fun even if things don't progress at the pace you wish.
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#496023 - 03/20/08 08:36 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: JO BO]
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72caddy
Member
Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 19
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Thanks JoBo
I have restored a 72 Cadillac Eldorado Conv (from a near basket case to a driver) and helped friends and other help debug their projects. I know from experence your advice is spot-on.
I am mainly looking for a driver to put around in. One day when I have more space I would do a full body-off restoration. I mainly use cars as my 'outlet' from a very stressful software job. I find getting my hands dirty turning wrenches is very theraputic. Costs (purchase and ongoing) are a concern as I do this on a budget - but as long as the value keeps pace over a long period I have no issues with the cost. I don't buy, do a little and then try to turn them around in a short period. I am a buy and keep type of person - my poor kids!
I have been frustrated many times, had to search high and lower for correct parts and even try to fix factory issues (the 70's quality was not a mandate) but that is what I like. I think I like the challenge more than I like to drive.
Edited by 72caddy (03/20/08 08:37 PM)
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#496026 - 03/20/08 08:53 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: 72caddy]
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Mark Shaw
Member
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 927
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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A 1916 car is actually more easily and cost effectively restored than more modern cars with AC, power brakes, and sooo much chrome like the 50s Buicks. The expensive fixes would be the crankshaft, rusty pitted cylinders, tranny, & starter/generator.
If the engine starts & runs OK, you are half way there. If you can drive it, run through the gears and verify the clutch works OK, you are 3/4 of the way there. Wheel & axle bearings & seals are relatively easy to find or replicate. The rest is primarily cosmetic.
Sealing the gas tank, fixing wood wheels, getting the carburator to work properly are all just tinkering jobs. They will take time, but can easily be done in your own garage.
I say go for it if you like the car.
_________________________
Mark Shaw
BCA PWD Director
HCCA Member (Skagit & Portland)
1913 Model 31 Touring
1915 Model C-25 "Speedster"
1924 Model 45 "Roadster Truck"
1929 Model 29-27 Sedan (Now my son's car)
1931 Model 57 Sedan
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#496030 - 03/20/08 09:35 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: Mark Shaw]
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72caddy
Member
Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 19
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Thanks,
The drive-train is the big question mark. As all this man did was roll it off the trailer and shove it in his building then pulled to Packards off and boxed in the Buick. He doesn't even know if the motor is free - it is not running; that is known. I like mechanical work so that is a plus to me.
Any idea on a value? I have looked at old price guides and tried to find similiar sales of cars of the same vintage - but projects are very different.
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#496040 - 03/20/08 10:17 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: 72caddy]
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JO BO
Member
Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 106
Loc: Billings MT 59101
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Hi; Value is always an issue open to argument. It's hard to find online price guides. Go to your google search box and type in.... the gold book.....They have a price guide section. I don't agree with all of their quotes but it's a start. I also do auction result searchs from all the major auction houses, as well as advertisements offering vehicles for sale in all kinds of conditions. You will soon get a feel for an approximation on the vehicle you are looking at.After you have an idea of value , feel out your seller as to what he would like to get for it. Offer lower than you feel value might be (not so low he may feel offended)although you will encounter those that no amount,regardless of how high seems right. Then you will have wiggle room to up the offer if he is hesitant. Also he may accept and if a hidden (expensive) flaw arises you have paid fairly for the car. I know this is all basic stuff. Is there any way you could post a picture of the car for us, so we all may have a crack at what we feel it may bring? Thanks
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#496054 - 03/20/08 11:08 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: JO BO]
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Thriller
Member
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 2204
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Manheim Gold - this is the only source that I am aware of that goes back that far as price guides go. Keeping in mind that price guides are based on the market, and there isn't a big market in 1916 Buicks, the guide can't be terribly accurate.
It does come down ultimately to what a buyer and seller can agree on.
I'm afraid I can't offer any real guidance to this car...the closest I have is a '29 and I haven't done any work on it yet. I'd be leery of a car that has been sitting for a while in unknown condition...alternatively, if it is complete and the price is reasonable (i.e. not based on something the seller saw at Barrett-Jackson), it would definitely be a neat project.
If it is something you want and you said you are in it for the long haul, then go for it...I'm in IT too...you need the therapy  
_________________________
Derek Thille BCA #39416, CBC, MBCC #1984 66 Wildcat Custom Coupe - "Ellie" / 62 Special Convertible / 61 Invicta Convertible / 56 Special 4-door Sedan / 52 Roadmaster 4-door / 41 Special 41SE Sedan / 29 McLaughlin Buick Model 51 2006 Buick Rainier - "Ruby" / 2005 GMC Sierra K2500 - "Max" (the hauler) Thriller's Buick Page
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#496105 - 03/21/08 09:45 AM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: Thriller]
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72caddy
Member
Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 19
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Thanks Thriller and JoBo,
I looked at Manheim the other day. It seems out of whack when you compare the values of the same era Model T and other cars of that era. So that is where I get confused - why such a large difference ($4500 verses $9500? He is always high priced on his fifties stuff, but this one he may be more reasonable as it is not what he usually deals in and may want it gone.
Pictures would be difficult as you can't even get walk around the car as it sits right now. You can only see the rear because that is where the door to the building is. It is pinned in by two 27 packard 7 pass., a 30 hudson super sixty, a 36 buick 3 window sidemount coupe and what I think is a 27 Chevy touring. He probably has 60 other cars but not as nice as the ones in this building (most are basket cases).
He said he wold get me a price in the month or so. Some Swedish buyers are coming in and he is trying to line up enough Cadillacs to make it worth their while - I may even sell my 72 eldo to them (need the space)
Edited by 72caddy (03/21/08 09:47 AM)
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#496117 - 03/21/08 11:13 AM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: 72caddy]
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Mark Shaw
Member
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 927
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Manheim Gold pricing does look low:
1916 BUICK Series D44/45 S Fair - Good - Exc - Show - Loan
ROADSTER 1916-17 225/45 9,500 14,500 17,500 21,500 13,000
Keep in mind that fair would be a car with an engine that runs in my value guide. With a high of $13,000, start subtracting how much it would take for you to make this car a show car by doing all the work yourself. You may arrive at a negotiatable price to offer, but I assure you that you would have to get the car for free to make it a show car worth only $13,000.
I think this model would be worth closer to $20,000 when done, & I would budget $8-10,000 to do it myself.
_________________________
Mark Shaw
BCA PWD Director
HCCA Member (Skagit & Portland)
1913 Model 31 Touring
1915 Model C-25 "Speedster"
1924 Model 45 "Roadster Truck"
1929 Model 29-27 Sedan (Now my son's car)
1931 Model 57 Sedan
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#496163 - 03/21/08 04:21 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: 1DandyDaves]
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72caddy
Member
Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 19
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I have some photos, but unsure how to post them on this forum.
the owner thought he was buying a low production 'speedster', but when mentioned that the 6-cyl motor was common and that this was probably a D44, of which they made many - he tightened up a bit.
I may go for a 28 Willy's-Knight that is in much better shape that I could get for about $5K - plus run the kids around in it.
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#496203 - 03/21/08 07:47 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: 72caddy]
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Thriller
Member
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 2204
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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a 36 buick 3 window sidemount coupe
Drool....
There is a thread in a couple of the forums (Me and My Buick for sure) that describe how to put photos in the thread. The easiest way is probably to use the "File Manager" to attach photos...it is below the box you type in when posting. It allows you to browse to find the file on your computer and attach it. If you can't get that to work, if you e-mail me the files I could post them for you.
_________________________
Derek Thille BCA #39416, CBC, MBCC #1984 66 Wildcat Custom Coupe - "Ellie" / 62 Special Convertible / 61 Invicta Convertible / 56 Special 4-door Sedan / 52 Roadmaster 4-door / 41 Special 41SE Sedan / 29 McLaughlin Buick Model 51 2006 Buick Rainier - "Ruby" / 2005 GMC Sierra K2500 - "Max" (the hauler) Thriller's Buick Page
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#496205 - 03/21/08 07:58 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: Thriller]
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72caddy
Member
Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 19
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Here are some pictures:
Attachments
Description:
Description:
Description:
Description:
Description: And just for Thriller:
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#496230 - 03/21/08 10:16 PM
Re: 1916 Buick 'Busselback'
[Re: 72caddy]
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Thriller
Member
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 2204
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Sigh.
_________________________
Derek Thille BCA #39416, CBC, MBCC #1984 66 Wildcat Custom Coupe - "Ellie" / 62 Special Convertible / 61 Invicta Convertible / 56 Special 4-door Sedan / 52 Roadmaster 4-door / 41 Special 41SE Sedan / 29 McLaughlin Buick Model 51 2006 Buick Rainier - "Ruby" / 2005 GMC Sierra K2500 - "Max" (the hauler) Thriller's Buick Page
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