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#493681 - 03/11/08 02:42 AM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: JZRIV]
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NTX5467
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 2721
Loc: DFW, TX
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IF we all lived in an environment where the ONLY club we were members of was the BCA and a local chapter, then a little more for a larger and more content-laden magazine would be acceptable . . . BUT most of us are NOT in just the BCA, but spread our automotive enthusiasm across several other entities (be they other car magazines, subscribed to or purchased as desired, or other car clubs/groups where dues are paid).
In attracting new members, THE BUGLE is a great tool and "deal maker", but when you start telling these prospects that they MUST be a member of the national organization to be a member of a BCA chapter, they (many times) do not understand this as they look at things as if the chapter was a local car club rather than a part of the national group. This brings on more 'splaining and selling, typically, but the ultimate determiner is what the total cost of the national and chapter dues are. What "value" they get from this money is still not "a given" to them yet, but the total expenditure is (as lump sum).
Any new member wants to be assured that they will see articles which appeal to them, so if they don't see them, the quality of the magazine is not a real issue . . . to them . . . and can be a determiner of whether they stick around past that first membership year. Some people, whether new members or existing BCA members, have somewhat focused orientations about the particular vehicles they might like to read about and don't read any articles outside of that focus. So, in that case, they'd be paying more to read about less (percentage-wise) in the bigger magazine. It would be nice if everybody wanted to learn about Buicks other than the one they might have or like, but that doesn't always happen.
I, too, feel that $50.00/year is the tipping point level which most can justify spending for national and chapter membership dues. It might be just a little over $4.00/month, but it's paid annually and there must be that much room in the budget that month. Many more vintage members might remember when that much money was a lot of money, yet the younger members might look at that amount differently. And many have wasted more than that on some frivolous activities, too, but the fact remains that there is a certain tolerance level of what the combined annual membership dues are.
There is NO QUESTION that Pete has improved the quality and content of THE BUGLE magazine! I also remember hearing of how many BCA members howled at the mere suggestion of a national dues increase in prior times . . . for ANY reason.
Therefore, if we have to add 16 pages, might it be a good idea to designate at least 12 or so as "content pages" and the balance as "advertising pages"? Hopefully, the additional advertising revenue (from new advertisers or letting existing advertisers have larger and more expensive space in that addtional page space) would help offset the additional printing costs.
It might be advisable to not have every issue be bigger, but special issues (i.e., national meet issues) to have the additional 16 pages (with a few more advertising pages in that mix, too). Perhaps this might be a better way to ease into the situation and see how they are received?
I really feel that we need to maintain the combined national and local membership dues at current levels for as long as we can. This would mean the additional pages being supported by a few more pages of advertising to cover the additional costs. In about a year or so, it might be time to look at an incremental increase in advertising rates (given the wide acceptance of Pete's work on the magazine).
We all like the magazine which Pete has improved greatly from what it was previously -- no question about that, period. But sometimes, bigger is not always better. Still, possibly a few "blockbuster" issues might be in order to test the waters of the production operatives to see if things can work as they suspect they can with the larger number of pages. Possibly one per quarter? To see if advertisers might pay a little more to be in there, too? If it works, cost effectively, then things might be expanded a year or so later down the line.
Just some thoughts,
Willis Bell 20811
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#493714 - 03/11/08 10:08 AM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: NTX5467]
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65gs76limited
Member
Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 387
Loc: Cleve,Oh
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With the economy the way it is and you want to raise the dues to 50.00? You guys must have rocks in your head.This is bad timming and wouldn't be well recieved.Take into consideration the local dues,ours are 30.00. That's 80.00 and it's not going to fly. My .02 Tom
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#493738 - 03/11/08 12:41 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: 65gs76limited]
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Bill Stoneberg
Member
Registered: 03/11/00
Posts: 2412
Loc: Austin, Texas
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Tom,
$ 50 dollars was brought up by Willis as $ 35 National dues and $15 local dues. It was not mentioned by me.
I have left a dollar amount off as I am wanting an opinion.
$ 30 for local dues seems hight to me. What do you get for it ?
_________________________
Bill
1950 Buick Super Estate Wagon
1947 4 Door Sedan
1964 Riviera
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#493739 - 03/11/08 12:44 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: 65gs76limited]
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HurstGN
Member
Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 198
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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As a suggestion, for those that are in local chapters, discuss the situation at your next chapter meeting and get input from all members. Then make that decision known to the board. That will help determine the feelings of more than just those logged in and posting here.
A good point is those that are members of more than one club. Most clubs want dues paid in January, the same time those bills are hitting from Christmas if you didn't buy everything with cash. And even if you have no bills from Christmas, car club dues alone can be expensive. For me, my bill each January is $185. It's not a trivial amount to be involved in the car clubs.
An idea to chew on....what does everyone think about an "associate membership" for the chapters? An associate membership would be a membership in the local chapter at the local chapter rate, and a $5 rate for the national membership. The rights of an associate would be a little different. The local chapter can publish a newsletter and whatever else, and the associate member has rights to the local items. But on the national level, the $5 is simply a stipen to cover the cost of the national office recording the associate member. There are no other rights of an associate. No voting rights, no Bugle, no eligibility to attend regional or national meets. Simply a member by name only on the books. What does this get us as a club? Well, this makes it much easier to get a member in the local chapter, and they can see how much more the full memberships get for the additional $30 (in the current case). It's a way to "try things out" a bit without spending the full $35. The stronger local chapters could then do more to convert associates into full members. I'd think you might see the local chapters increase 50% if not double in size. And for those that get "hooked" by the activities, and the other members having a Bugle, the additional money and full membership would follow easier. Asking for the full boatload of registration up front, and the prospective member hasn't experienced the benefits....it's a hard sell.
This is just an idea of a way to get more members. Possibly the economies of scale would kick in and if national membership increased enough to get a break on printing MORE Bugles as associate memberss convert to full members, then the Bugle could be increased without a national membership dues increase. Just my .42 on the subject. Anyone like it? Dislike it?
_________________________
Visit the Pittsburgh Tri-Shields from your PC Dan McCann BCA #34734 October 2007 Hemmings Muscle Machines Feature Car - 1982 Turbocharged Grand National
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#493811 - 03/11/08 07:26 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: HurstGN]
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NTX5467
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 2721
Loc: DFW, TX
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I'll admit to using the $50.00 total dues (national plus local chapter) figure, but I believe it was also used earlier as something of a dividing line of what would be tolerable. I do feel that is a reasonable figure which most could deal with.
At the chapter level, we try to keep things "cheap" as to our yearly dues. Basically, to cover newsletter costs and have a little left over. That's the way our North Texas chapter operates and also the orientation of other car clubs I've been in locally, even the ones where there is no national affiliation (but with local sponsors and supporters). This opens the door for yearly shows (or bi-annual shows) to make a little money with. So, fiscal responsibility at the local level while keeping dues easy to afford is, by observation, a good thing to do.
As in business, it's best to have a broad customer base and make a little from each one than have a smaller customer base of customers (who can be fickle!) who individually pay more. Being able to expand that customer base can also be highly influenced by whether each new customer pays less or more.
In looking at dues for other national car clubs a few years ago, it comes out that the BCA is something of a bargain as to what is provided for the membership. And that was BEFORE Pete took over the magazine! But that relative frugality tends to parallel how economical many Buicks are to own and feed!
As for an "Associate Membership" or the previously-mentioned (in a BUGLE editorial) "Member-At-Large", I am NOT in favor of those things as a selling tool to get people to consider joining the BCA. But you CAN offer complimentary 6 month memberships to these same prospective members. Such a complimentary membership would give them full benefits as a regular paid member, with the orientation that they'd want to be a full-paid member later on. The investment of this nature (a few extra magazines each month) could well be one of the best investments the BCA has ever made with respect to increasing the total membership over the long run. All it would take would be a center card in the magazine, which could be copied, to hand out to prospective members at car shows and such . . . BUT it would have to be activated to be in force--activated by the prospective member themselves.
We MIGHT have a reasonably captive customer base who would be for paying more with an expanded magazine, BUT with respct to new members, we HAVE to be cognizant of what THEIR tolerance might be for joining a new or another car club and what the total costs would be for dues and membership. And THAT TOLERANCE level is what is important!
In reality, I feel there is MUCH MORE DISCUSSION which needs to be done on this subject. If I was in charge of the committee to determine these things, I'd want to see a sample of the proposal, what the additional costs for the added pages would be, if they'd interfere with the existing color pages, what the proposed/potential article subjects would be, what additional impact of advertising revenue in these additiional pages might be (recall my comments above about using only a certain number of the 16 pages for additional advertising?), and see if the whole package could be delivered AND mailed at existing cost/profit levels or profits being modestly increased.
Unfortunately, I do NOT see this as a "simple answer" situation, but a more complex situation where EACH aspect would need to be looked at, discussed, proposed, and THEN put together a final proposal which would increase the existing high value of BCA membership at minimal additional expenses (which are desired to be passed on to the end consumer of the product) or NO increase at all as the additional pages would be self-supporting with the additional advertising revenue. I feel that this needs to be looked at as a business proposition rather than something with a lot of emotion attached to it AND consider that, although BCA membership and chapter membership might be under "what the market will bear", increasing membership dues to cover these costs is not a really good way to do it.
My thoughts and orientations.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
Willis Bell 20811
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#493835 - 03/11/08 08:44 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: NTX5467]
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65gs76limited
Member
Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 387
Loc: Cleve,Oh
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Bill,my mistake on our local dues.They were just raised last year to 20.00 not 30.00 dollars.I don't have a problem with 35.00 and 20.00 but 50.00 and 20.00 i still don't think will go over to well.
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#493844 - 03/11/08 09:10 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: 65gs76limited]
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JohnD1956
Member
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: New York
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The $50.00 amount may have come from my earlier post. I still stand by that amount as a maximum amount of National dues. I would not want to see National Dues over that amount.
And I agree with a lot of what's been mentioned about the cost of Membership. It is hard to sell prospective members on both BCA and Chapter membership at the same time. Dans idea above has some merit. But I think it would be harmful to relationships with members if you ever told a member they could not attend a National Meet.
Similarly, I dislike the Member at Large idea because I think it's crazy to tell people you can join the club for one day, most likely so they can put their car in a show, but you can't get an award. I don't think I would want to pay more money than others on the field and the result is I can't get any award. But that's just me.
I did like the idea earlier about doing a 13th issue each year as opposed to increasing the size of the monthly issues. And I like Willis' ideas about trying a few issues in a larger size to test the water.
Edited by JohnD1956 (03/11/08 09:11 PM)
_________________________
John C. De Fiore BCA # 3757 56 Super 56R 69 GS 400 Convertible 69 Electra Limited 2 dr.( well, no longer limited although still unique) 95 Riviera Supercharged (sold) 06 Lacrosse CXL Doing my part to stimulate the economy! Member of the UPSTATE NY CHAPTER check it out at http://unybca.skyphix.com/
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#494071 - 03/12/08 08:53 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: JohnD1956]
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Thriller
Member
Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 2205
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Definitely some intriguing discussion.
I currently have 3 old Buicks on the road. I don't think I can fill any of them with gas for the price of the BCA membership and Gopher State membership, although the smaller tank in the '62 may...keep in mind that my BCA membership is already over $50. I realize that we are in better shape financially than many, but honestly, if you drive / repair / restore your Buicks, is it really a question of affordability? Or is it a matter of priorities, and possibly being cheap?
Dan's idea is intriguing, but like John, I'd hate to be the one telling a group of the chapter members that they can't participate in a particular meet, especially if the chapter is hosting it.
Perhaps a different way of asking is why is anyone a BCA member? Did they join the BCA just to be able to join a chapter? I'd believe some are in that boat. Others don't even have a chapter within a distance that allows regular attendance. Is it just the Bugle? To some that are out of easy reach of a chapter, it is the BCA lifeline. Is it about the national / regional / local meets? Is it about seeing other cars like yours? Most of my Buicks, you'd have trouble seeing something similar locally, although there are a few around.
For me, I joined in time to attend the Centennial in Flint in 2003. I basically knew nobody there going in, although there were a couple of online acquaintances that I never did hook up with. We had a blast. 1700 Buicks in one place...wow...we've got some 700,000 people in our city and I frequently don't see other Buicks beyond those of a few acquaintances and some newer ones. I joined the Gopher State Chapter after the national in Rochester was announced...I figured it was as close as I was going to get to being at "home" for a national and that I ought to spend some volunteer time. This past year was my first as a BCA Judge...a fun, intriguing, and learning experience. I'm pretty sure I'm a lifer regardless of the cost of membership.
Switching gears a bit, the local chapters really are the hands and the feet of the BCA. Other than something like an online search, BCA members and BCA chapters are how any prospective members learn about the BCA.
Anyway, I've blathered enough. I hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers. This thread has been one of the best discussions here of late. I certainly don't have all the answers to the questions the club faces...heck, I'm asking a few...if I come up with ideas though, rest assured they will be relayed here, where there are a few BoD members who will see them and / or relayed directly to one or two BoD members that I know personally.
_________________________
Derek Thille BCA #39416, CBC, MBCC #1984 66 Wildcat Custom Coupe - "Ellie" / 62 Special Convertible / 61 Invicta Convertible / 56 Special 4-door Sedan / 52 Roadmaster 4-door / 41 Special 41SE Sedan / 29 McLaughlin Buick Model 51 2006 Buick Rainier - "Ruby" / 2005 GMC Sierra K2500 - "Max" (the hauler) Thriller's Buick Page
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#494087 - 03/12/08 09:48 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: Bill Stoneberg]
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Bhigdog
Member
Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 1466
Loc: Eastern PA
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Times are getting tough. Prices are up and the market is down. This isn't a good time to charge more for anything at the risk of losing customers (members)...........Bob
_________________________
Bob Beck
39 Chev PU
69 big block Corvette
55 Buick 66C
57 Buick 46C
55 Olds S-88
56 Chrysler St. Regis
AACA, BCA, WPC, USHGA
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#494206 - 03/13/08 12:33 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: Bhigdog]
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HurstGN
Member
Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 198
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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The whole idea behind the "associate membership" was to get a way for somebody to "try it before you buy it". How many times have you seen people waiting in line to buy fudge from a vendor at an event, and the event has nothing to do with food?
Hrmm, free, I'm in. Wow, that's really good fudge. I can get a half pound free if I buy a pound? That sounds like a good deal...and I liked that sample. OK, give me a half pound of that, and that, ad that...here's my ca$h.
That works because a person has at least a passing interest in the product. The offer of a free trial entices the customer in. What do I have to lose? If I don't like it, I walk away and pay nothing. If I'm really cheap, I take the sample and run with never an intent on buying the product. Yea, you get a few of those, but you make more on the ones you did sell the product to.
So, the idea is to find a way to accomplish this same process with a BCA national membership. Maybe the local chapters could have a member join the chapter and pay local dues in full, and be allowed to be a member of the local for a 1 year period without being a national member. When joining, the member info is sent to the national and the national sends them 2 Bugles, free of charge for 2 months. They can attend regionals and nationals, but cannot compete for awards or hold office unless they are a full national member. If at anytime during the 1 year period, they wish to join the national, they can do so and all rights are extended to them immediately upon payment. If after a year they decide not to join the national, then they must relinquish the chapter membership. The main reason behind this thinking is letting the arms and legs of the national do the exercise, and make the national stronger.
I'm just trying to find a way for them to get that sample taste, and the good friends, the events, and the Bugle (aka, the entire Buick family experience) will draw them in for a long term relationship.
Lets keep this discussion going on how to accomplish this. I think it would be a huge win for everyone overall.
_________________________
Visit the Pittsburgh Tri-Shields from your PC Dan McCann BCA #34734 October 2007 Hemmings Muscle Machines Feature Car - 1982 Turbocharged Grand National
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#494281 - 03/13/08 05:17 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: HurstGN]
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GRANNYS 70 SKYLARK
Member
Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 93
Loc: Upstate NY
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I'm opposed to any large dues increase. Why not go to an on-line issue of the Bugle and make the print copy an optional, extra cost item members can choose or not? If enough people opted for an online version the dues might actually be reduced based on the postage savings. This way it can be read and archieved compactly instead of in a pile in the attic/basement/etc.
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#494416 - 03/14/08 12:45 AM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: HurstGN]
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NTX5467
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 2721
Loc: DFW, TX
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ONE compelling reason to have national BCA membership FIRST is that the member is covered under the BCA's umbrella insurance policy at a BCA-sponsored and/or BCA chapter event. Allowing a chapter membership (even if it's a trial membership) without the national membership would mean that trial-membership member would not be covered under any of the BCA's insurance at events and, technically, could not participate in any chapter shows because of the non-BCA membership situation.
This chapter trial membership (without BCA membership first) would also put the BCA chapter on the level of a local car club who's "going it alone" with no sponsor or other affiliation. Such a club would either purchase event insurance or tag along on the policy of a meet/event host (i.e., car dealership). Many people (who a chapter might be trying to entice into the BCA and their chapter) perceive the local chapter in that orientation and don't always understand the necessity for the BCA National Membership first and the chapter membership second . . . and, by observation at several BCA National Meet business meetings where how to "sell the BCA" is mentioned, many BCA members aren't really keyed into how to effectively sell the necessity of the dual membership to a new prospective member (without making them feel "unknowing" about why it's necessary).
Therefore, selling the BCA to a new/prospective member is the first thing that needs to happen, then . . . sell them on the local chapter (if one is nearby) as an local/regional extension of the BCA at the grassroots level of things. It can be done and done effectively . . . BUT not everybody is a "car club person" or will not join the local chapter as they already have other things to spread their available time over.
WE, as existing BCA members already know the value of the BCA membership, but effectively selling new/prospective members on this "high value" situation and having it available at a total (chapter plus national dues) price they can and will afford past the first year of membership is "where the rubber meets the road" or "the gasoline meets the spark plug."
The OTHER consideration of new member retention is that the new member feels comfortable in the local chapter environment. Comfortable in that they feel welcome, feel like part of the family (members interact together, for example), and the different age (for example) demographics or vehicular orientations are tolerable to all parties.
Enjoy!
Willis Bell 20811
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#494506 - 03/14/08 12:42 PM
Re: A larger Bugle and an increase in dues
[Re: buick5563]
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dcdpgh
Member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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The ROA (Riviera Owners Association) has a $30 annual dues. Club benefits include: Membership inclusion for spouse and minor children, six bi-monthly issues of the club's color magazine "Riview" including free 40 word add per member per issue, access to reprints from the club library of technical information and articles, access to technical support via technical advisors who have "been there done that", participation in international and local club events, membership card, window decal, and club cards. I think I've recalled the benefits correctly, and done it justice.
The ROA does not have local chapters, so there is no local dues to be factored in. If so inclined, members (with the clubs consent) can act as a Regional Coordinator to organize local level events.
This organization is invaluable to a Riviera owner, as it's purpose is so sharply focused on the needs of these particular cars.
_________________________
Dan Dolan
ROA #11333
BCA #43257
1968 Riviera
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#494705 - 03/15/08 12:08 PM
Guess what these folks are talking about?
[Re: dcdpgh]
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BUICK RACER
Member
Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 2307
Loc: Flint, MI, USA
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_________________________
Roberta
BCA #16798
BCA Board of Director,1997-2003
BCA WEBMASTER
'56 Special(parts car!),'68 GS350,4-sp '68 GS400 Convertible,4-sp,'66 Wildcats,'70 GSX Stage 1,'70 Skylark Racecar,'73 GS455,'86 Grand National
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