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#471640 - 12/13/07 09:58 PM EPA's Anti-Painting Law
bferg bferg Member Registered: 02/20/04 Posts: 14 Loc: Texas	The editor of Hemmings Classic Car magazine has a column in the February, 2008, issue concerning a new EPA regulation that outlaws all metal painting unless you have a $100,000 paint booth. This law will impact a tremendous number of restorers, both individuals and small businesses presently doing restoration work. FURTHERMORE, the EPA is proposing that, begining in the year 2011, you will not be able to buy the necessary paints to restore your old vehicles unless you are Certified i.e. Licensed. It seems to me that many old car enthusiasts and organizations were asleep at the switch when this legislation was passed. Edited by bferg (12/13/07 10:25 PM) _________________________ restoring an '47 IHC pickup
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#471643 - 12/13/07 10:05 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: bferg]
JFranklin JFranklin Member Registered: 01/13/06 Posts: 326 Loc: Oregon	would this apply to water-borne paints?
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#471728 - 12/14/07 10:44 AM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: bferg]
South_paw South_paw Member Registered: 09/23/05 Posts: 104	Originally Posted By: bferg The It seems to me that many old car enthusiasts and organizations were asleep at the switch when this legislation was passed. This is old news. We discussed this right here 2 years ago Click here _________________________ Lou AACA member CLC member 1970 DeVille 1956 Fleetwood
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#472793 - 12/18/07 01:47 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: bferg]
58srgreat 58srgreat Member Registered: 03/14/07 Posts: 16	BFERG, I don't think ANY amount of oppostion from the old car hobby would have derailed this legislation.The EPA has been trying to enact some kind of legislation for years.I think most municipalities already have laws on the books but don't have enough people to enforce them.It will hurt on-line paint retailers and even the likes of EASTWOOD.I don't know what costs are involved in getting certifited to buy and spray paint but the high cost of SHOW QUALITY paint jobs(15k-20k+)will force me to find a way to get certfied.We will have to wait and see what the final rules are and go from there.The automotive refinish industry will probably change somewhat due to water-borne technology and new regulations in CA.
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#473075 - 12/19/07 02:07 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: bferg]
58srgreat 58srgreat Member Registered: 03/14/07 Posts: 16	BFERG, I received an e-mail from RICHARD,editor of HCC.I have a bit of GOOD news to report.Apparently SEMA was not totally asleep on this issue.A LAST MINUTE provision in the bill will allow hobbyists to paint up to TWO cars per year.This is not to say it won't change later on.At least the hobbyist community is now aware of the issues facing us.
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#473329 - 12/20/07 03:55 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: 58srgreat]
Restorer32 Restorer32 Member Registered: 07/25/02 Posts: 1902 Loc: South Central Pa.	Most restoration shops have long since moved out of California or at least to less restrictive counties. Here in PA there is very little regulation of body and paint shops, virtually none in fact. Any regulation re paint booths etc is more an insurance company requirement than anything else. Oh, I forgot, you can't buy paint in a spray can under the age of 18 in PA. _________________________ 1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe 1933 Packard Coupe Sedan 1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
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#473451 - 12/20/07 11:26 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: Restorer32]
Dave@Moon Dave@Moon Long Time Member Registered: 12/14/99 Posts: 7381 Loc: Fairfield (Cincinnati), OH	Quote: Here in PA there is very little regulation of body and paint shops, virtually none in fact. I wouldn't say this. Over 15 years ago all PA commercial body shops were required to report as an USQG (Ultra Small Quantity Generator) for proper disposal of hazardous paint wastes. They were required even then to have the gun cleaning equipment mentioned in the new Federal regs. Most look like little urinals. They collect wash solvent for disposal, which normally (along with occasional waste paint--most from errors) is the only hazardous waste a body shop generates. In the old days it was just sprayed into the air (probably like most of us do), which is now considered illegal disposal in the atmosphere. I busted one body shop in Pittsburgh myself putting spent solvents out in the trash in 1991. At the time it was a 4 digit fine, worse if the Attorney General's office got involved. If you know a body shop still doing this in 2007, they're risking severe repercussions! $\:o$ _________________________ *"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."*
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#473946 - 12/23/07 11:41 AM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: Dave@Moon]
Bill Clark Bill Clark Member Registered: 07/28/00 Posts: 25 Loc: Endicott, NY	re: A LAST MINUTE provision in the bill will allow hobbyists to paint up to TWO cars per year. It is my understanding that the bill asking for this action was passed a few years ago by our elected officials and what is now being released is a regulation with the authority of law that outlines the requirements of this legislation. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Please provide more information on this last minute provision. Thanks Bill Who has just declared his 49 JD crawler tractor done and is anxious to start cleaning and sanding and painting on something new.
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#474377 - 12/26/07 11:48 AM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: Bill Clark]
Restorer32 Restorer32 Member Registered: 07/25/02 Posts: 1902 Loc: South Central Pa.	That gun cleaner and haz waste disposal is expensive. We give Safety Klean something like $375 every 8 weeks. I tell all new employees if they even take a leak outside they will be fired. I knew we were required to have the equipment just was not considering it a state requirement. _________________________ 1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe 1933 Packard Coupe Sedan 1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
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#474403 - 12/26/07 02:54 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: Restorer32]
Dave@Moon Dave@Moon Long Time Member Registered: 12/14/99 Posts: 7381 Loc: Fairfield (Cincinnati), OH	Quote: I tell all new employees if they even take a leak outside they will be fired. That's funny, I was told the same thing by the PA Dept. of Environmental Resources, K-Mart, and the church where I work now. Nothing like forbidden fruit to..... Oops. Excuse me a minute. $\:\/$ _________________________ *"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."*
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#474405 - 12/26/07 02:59 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: Restorer32]
Dave@Moon Dave@Moon Long Time Member Registered: 12/14/99 Posts: 7381 Loc: Fairfield (Cincinnati), OH	Quote: That gun cleaner and haz waste disposal is expensive. We give Safety Klean something like $375 every 8 weeks. If you are lucky, there may be a less (shall we say) "aggressive" competitor in your area that can service you. Where there are alternatives the price generally drops substantially, although the marketing rhetoric increases exponentially at the same time. All I can say is never believe what one vendor says about another, even if one or the other is Saftey-Klean. _________________________ *"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."*
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#474855 - 12/28/07 10:08 AM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: Dave@Moon]
Steve_Mack_CT Steve_Mack_CT Member Registered: 12/15/06 Posts: 404 Loc: Connecticut	The balance is difficult. Two years ago a friend of mine closed a very well established, second generation body shop he has run for around 20 years (his dad a prior 20), due to the rising costs of doing business. Chemical disposal, insurance (garagekeeper's & health ins. for his employees) and local taxes were all contributing factors. He had no building or business loans to pay off and was really a collision shop, not a restoration shop. In fact he didn't want to do restorations as they were not geared to it. When people complain about the high cost of restoration they should understand the behind the scenes costs of overboard regs - this has to get passed along. So these issues are bigger than just the hobbyist trying to paint a car at home. Dave, he never mentioned material costs but I agree that in business, always keep your vendor honest, even in an established relationship. Restorer, my guess is your hourly costs for the above expenses easily eaqual or better the hourly wage you pay a given tech, and you also have to have allowances for other overhead and some profit margin. I guess at least with restoration you do not need to fight or negotiate with an insurance adjuster. _________________________ Steve Mackinnon Nationals: AACA, MARC, MAFCA Locals: CMARC, CCRAACA 1930 Model A 55-b Tudor Sedan 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S convertible Two German Shepherds & One Garage Cat
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#474900 - 12/28/07 01:15 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: Steve_Mack_CT]
Restorer32 Restorer32 Member Registered: 07/25/02 Posts: 1902 Loc: South Central Pa.	For example, we try to treat our employees well and provide health insurance at no cost to the employees. Almost $6/hr of our hourly rate goes just to provide health insurance. Not complaining, we are starting our 30th year in biz and are still having fun but with the ever increasing cost of labor, materials and overhead it is more and more difficult to provide a service that people can afford to purchase by the hour. Spoke yesterday with a local fellow who is talking to us about restoring his Dad's '57 Pontiac 4 door. The car is straight and unmolested but needs everything, including major rust repair, interior, chrome and complete mechanical rebuild. I was almost embarassed to tell him what I thought it would likely cost to do the job. _________________________ 1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe 1933 Packard Coupe Sedan 1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
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#474920 - 12/28/07 02:35 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: Restorer32]
R W Burgess R W Burgess Long Time Member Registered: 06/13/02 Posts: 10082 Loc: Warsaw, Va.	Quote: I was almost embarrassed to tell him what I thought it would likely cost to do the job. Jeff, when it comes to non-popular cars, 4 doors, or whatever, the customer has to realize its just like buying furniture, TV's or the like. All of those items depreciate just like an undesirable antique automobile. They will never be worth what you put into them. $\:\($ Wayne
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#476685 - 01/04/08 08:53 PM Re: EPA's Anti-Painting Law [Re: R W Burgess]
djt djt Member Registered: 12/27/07 Posts: 12	Not everybody wants a 2 door and I know alot of 4 doors that have went up in price.. How long have you been getting car collector magazines? I haven't seen any cars drop in price. If Your theory is wright Jay leno would probably go out and commit suicide.
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