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#445401 - 08/29/07 10:29 PM
Valve Guides 324 Rocket
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nifty 6
Member
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 19
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A problem I am having is the car shows blue smoke at start up out of the exhaust after the car has been sitting for a few days and does not clear up as there is a very very slight on and off hint of the blue smoke. I did a hot compression test and my readings range from 155 to 165, would anybody know what the factory specs are? . A vacuum test shows normal readings. Spark plugs are new. I removed all the plugs and they are dry, no hint of any oil deposits. Could I have a problem with the valve guides? or valves or both? The car has been in storage for the last 20 years but had been started occasionly and during winter storage the engine was fogged.
Thank you
Ron
1956 Olds 88 4 door sedan
1983 Olds Delta 88
1988 GMC Pickup
2005 Mazda 3
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#445453 - 08/30/07 07:14 AM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: nifty 6]
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rocketraider
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/05/01
Posts: 3110
Loc: the Last Capital of Dixie
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I'd consider consistent 155-165 compression to be excellent. You're probably on the right track with guides and/or seals, and you should also check the cylinder head drainback holes. If oil doesn't drain back it can puddle in the heads and vacuum will suck it in around the guides.
Normal vacuum readings make me think seals more than guides, since a worn guide can affect vacuum. Seals can be replaced with heads on the engine.
_________________________
Glenn Williamson
Rocketraider
member AACA and all major Olds clubs
"That's a strange concept, Son" said my father as he sampled the day's run of silvery-clear moonshine for taste and quality. "Good 'shine, that. Your grandpap would be proud that the gift has passed on to another generation. But yes, it's real strange that some folks feel like a varmint has more right to illegally inhabit and destroy your property than you have to prevent it from doing it."
"Come to think of it, that's why your Uncle Reade sold off all them rental houses he had. It was costing him more to fix what the varmints tore up than he was making off 'em. And the govamint wouldn't let him evict them."
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#445580 - 08/30/07 05:14 PM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: rocketraider]
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pete324rock
Member
Registered: 04/04/03
Posts: 190
Loc: moncton new brunswick canada
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heres a question....did the heads come with valve seals stock from the factory? No mention of them in the service manual-seems I remember someone mentioning to me that they did not......????? pete
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#445638 - 08/30/07 08:57 PM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: pete324rock]
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nifty 6
Member
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 19
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Ok now I am confused. Your are right no mention in the repair manual about valve seals. I looked in Kanters catalogue and again no mention of the valve seals. I even talked to a resoration shop, explained what was going on with the engine, gave them all the info I have posted here and he told me its probably the valve seals and not the valve guides. I asked Kanter for a price for the valve guides and seals. Wondering what they will tell me...
Thanks guys
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#445738 - 08/31/07 07:30 AM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: nifty 6]
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rocketraider
Long Time Member
Registered: 12/05/01
Posts: 3110
Loc: the Last Capital of Dixie
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I wish we could get Ross Lombardi and Frank Graf on here for Rocket engine tech. I admit I'm not that familiar with 50s Rockets; just assumed they'd have valve seals like later ones.
64- later engines often had factory knurling in the valve guides to help with oil control. Possibly the 56 had that also and it's worn?
_________________________
Glenn Williamson
Rocketraider
member AACA and all major Olds clubs
"That's a strange concept, Son" said my father as he sampled the day's run of silvery-clear moonshine for taste and quality. "Good 'shine, that. Your grandpap would be proud that the gift has passed on to another generation. But yes, it's real strange that some folks feel like a varmint has more right to illegally inhabit and destroy your property than you have to prevent it from doing it."
"Come to think of it, that's why your Uncle Reade sold off all them rental houses he had. It was costing him more to fix what the varmints tore up than he was making off 'em. And the govamint wouldn't let him evict them."
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#445739 - 08/31/07 07:33 AM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: nifty 6]
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BobOlds
Member
Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 48
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Don't know that they originally came with them but the 54-55 (number 8)heads use rubber "umbrella" style seals. I believe that Fusick sells them.
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#445822 - 08/31/07 03:57 PM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: BobOlds]
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pete324rock
Member
Registered: 04/04/03
Posts: 190
Loc: moncton new brunswick canada
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I hope we can find an answer to this. My point is that if the engine had never been rebuilt(heads)even though thats gotta be rare,worn guides with no seals would certainly result in those symptoms,I would think.
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#445858 - 08/31/07 06:18 PM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: pete324rock]
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nifty 6
Member
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 19
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The engine has never been rebuilt, been in the family since new. After a closer look at my repair manual I noticed that there is something called "oil deflectors" at the valve stem just above the valve guides and below the keys. Not sure what they do our its purpose, or if they ware out? dry out? or if they have anything to do with my problem etc...so looks like new valve guides might cure my problem if there are no seals but I want to make sure before going ahead with a fix. I am not an engine guy but learning as I go along.
Thanks guys for your help much appreciated.
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#445958 - 09/01/07 07:17 AM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: nifty 6]
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pete324rock
Member
Registered: 04/04/03
Posts: 190
Loc: moncton new brunswick canada
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Do you have an estimate of the milage on the engine? It would be helpful in making a decision.Reason I am curious is that I recently had 56 heads rebuilt-may be able to help you with advice maybe.I do know that the exhaust guides seem to run pretty "loose" and since replacing them with removable guides,questioned whether the new guides I put in were in fact tight enough-the intakes received brass inserts.Also put in hardened exhaust seats due to erosion of the original seats allowing the valve to sink too deep in the head.Git yer wallet out!
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#446017 - 09/01/07 02:51 PM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: pete324rock]
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nifty 6
Member
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 19
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Do you have an estimate of the milage on the engine? It would be helpful in making a decision.Reason I am curious is that I recently had 56 heads rebuilt-may be able to help you with advice maybe.I do know that the exhaust guides seem to run pretty "loose" and since replacing them with removable guides,questioned whether the new guides I put in were in fact tight enough-the intakes received brass inserts.Also put in hardened exhaust seats due to erosion of the original seats allowing the valve to sink too deep in the head.Git yer wallet out!
odometer reads 24,000 miles. I believe it to be true. Car has been in storage for the last 20 years but started occassionally and fogged during the winter months.
Thanks for your input
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#473391 - 12/20/07 08:00 PM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: oldmobile1]
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nifty 6
Member
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 19
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I know this discusion is old, and you may have repaired your problem, but if not, you can E-mail Franklin Graff at rocketfest@msn or call Ross Lombardi at Ross Racing Engines in Niles Ohio. 330-544-4466 both of these guys are top notch. I'd try some Lucas additive or Marvel Mistery oil, put a couple hundred miles on it and do a couple oil changes. Treat it like a new motor, and drive it like you were breaking it in as new. Put some miles on it and see if it don't clear up. Doug
I will try what you have suggested, hope spring comes quickly.
Thanks for your input...
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#479686 - 01/17/08 11:44 AM
Re: Valve Guides 324 Rocket
[Re: oldmobile1]
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nifty 6
Member
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 19
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Thanks for everyones input.
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