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#433568 - 07/05/07 06:37 PM
Series II L67/ 6 speed manual conversion
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F14CRAZY
Long Time Member
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 4847
Loc: Dimondale, MI
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And this time, it's real. My old thread seems to have been lost in the new forum software change, so I'm making a new thread.
I try not to be one of those that does more talking than doing, and I'm actually doing. This evening I picked up this bad boy...
Six speed manual I picked up on ebay
Scham is a pretty big, late model yard in Mason, not too far from me. Car-part.com shows they have like a dozen of these things, prescribed for an '06 Pontiac G6 GTP (paired with the 3900, or an '07 GT with the Sport Package) for $650 each. For reasons I don't quite understand, they sell the same exact ones on ebay for $500. I picked it up myself and paid cash this afternoon, which they should be happy about since they don't have to ship it and Paypal doesn't get a cut of their money.
How they got them, I'm not certain, but this is an unopened case of them marked to be from GM. I guess their sales of manual G6's has been really disappointing. (Note, this is also used in the Saab 9-3).
This unit is the F40, and I will call it that from here on out. It's rated for more power than previous 5 speeds GM has used. It has never been mated to a 3800 from the factory, but at least for certain the bell housing pattern is the same.
In other news, I've been calling around and using car-part.com some more on finding a supercharged 3800 Series II. I've located one, with a rebuilt supercharger (the Eaton M90), 90k some miles, and accessories (A/C, alternator, starter...) for $1k. I plan on acting on this soon, perhaps tomorrow or Saturday. Miles may sound high for a donor engine, but I'm not worried, this is a 3800 we're talking about 
Ryan of Sinister Performance is going to be doing my ECM tuning once again. I've been in contact with him the past week or two. I'd like to do some upgrades from the start, so he's given me the contact of his machinist that will port the cylinder heads and the supercharger housing. His other suggestions are a supercharger underdrive pulley, a pretty basic and common mod for these, along with a 3'' exhaust. I've listened to sound clips on Youtube of 3800 Camaro's and Firebird's and have kinda decided I like the Flowmaster sound the best. I still like to keep it pretty quiet for highway cruising (droning sucks). I'm going to keep a catalytic converter in place, but it will be of high flow design.
To be figured out:
-clutch: I'm going to get a 3800 Camaro/Firebird (F-body, from here on out) manual flywheel. This is the only application of a 3800 and manual tranny. This will be fitted to the L67's flexplate, and will be machined for the clutch. The Fiero guys at http://www.fiero.nl are probably my best bet for tips on this part of the project, since they do motor swaps left and right. The clutch disk, pressure plate, etc need to be figured out. Scott at the Auto Shop used Beretta clutch pedal and master cylinder (I think, if I remember right) and I'll do that or something similar.
-CV shafts: I will have to evaluate the splines of the 4T60/440-T4, the '89 Reatta's stock automatic, and see how they compare to the F40. For certain, custom lengths will be involved.
-shifter: I don't know if I exactly have to yet, but I'm going to attempt obtaining the G6 shifter, linkages, and cables. I have a couple spares that Scott hooked me up with, and I will have to check those out too and see if they're compatible with the F40. I believe they're either for the W-body 5 speed or the Beretta 5 speed.
That's about it for now. I'm going to take lots fo pix and document everything the best I can.
"May the wind be at our backs"
Attachments
Description:
_________________________
My name is Philip.
'89 coupe
'90 white coupe (brother's, being reconstructed)
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#433641 - 07/06/07 10:08 AM
Re: Series II L67/ 6 speed manual conversion
[Re: 'Reatta1']
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Ronnie
Member
Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 698
Loc: Tennessee
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No photos showing up for me.
_________________________
Red '88 
Buy or sell Reatta cars and parts online. Click Here. It's Free!
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#433702 - 07/06/07 06:18 PM
Re: Series II L67/ 6 speed manual conversion
[Re: padgett]
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F14CRAZY
Long Time Member
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 4847
Loc: Dimondale, MI
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I'll give a better update later, but I made a trip out to Flint this afternoon.
I paid for the G6 clutch related parts and CV shafts, to the tune of $1060.00. The stuff is from Mike's Auto Salvage from an '06 G6 GTP coupe. I'm getting the master cylinder, clutch pedal, resevoir, cables, shifter, the clutch disc and pressure plate, and all the hardware for the stuff. Chuck there understood my project and has a good idea of what I need from him.
There's like half a dozen salvage yards along Dort Highway, so I shopped around for a F-body flywheel and a complete L67. Couldn't find a flywheel but I placed a deposit on an engine. $650 for a complete L67 with 58k miles from a 2002 Regal GS is a great deal compared with the prices I've seen on car-part.com (this wasn't listed there, that I know of). I was close to buying one with 87k or so miles for $1k, so it was good I held off and shopped around.
Chuck at Mike's Auto Salvage also said that he would measure the depth of the 3900's flywheel in the bellhousing. I clarified this with Ryan, and I was correct that the point is to get the flywheel on the 3800 to be the same depth in the bellhousing as the 3900's flywheel is. Clutching then won't be much of an issue. The stock 3900 clutch probably isn't rated high enough for the power I'm going to be putting through it, and Ryan said to check out SPEC clutch...he has them make custom clutches, so I'll be contacting them soon.
I've probably forgotten some stuff at the moment, so I'll post back later (and try to fix that pic)
_________________________
My name is Philip.
'89 coupe
'90 white coupe (brother's, being reconstructed)
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#433784 - 07/07/07 08:54 AM
Re: Series II L67/ 6 speed manual conversion
[Re: F14CRAZY]
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F14CRAZY
Long Time Member
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 4847
Loc: Dimondale, MI
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Some info from GM Powertrain on the 6 speed...
2007 F40 (MU9)
2007 Model Year Summary
General Motors Powertrain-Europe F40 six-speed manual car transaxle
● New Detent System For Quicker And Easier Shifting
● Gear Ratio Changes For Quicker Acceleration
FULL DESCRIPTIONS OF NEW OR CHANGED FEATURES
NEW DETENT SYSTEM FOR QUICKER AND EASIER SHIFTING
The addition of a ball-and-spring-type detent on the shift sleeve and detents on the shift rail assists the driver in shifting quicker. The detent raises the force required to move the shift lever which prevents excess movement of the shifter by the driver, and reduces the chance of double bump. Tension between the shift sleeve and the shift rail also prevents the sleeve from vibrating while in gear.
GEAR RATIO CHANGES FOR QUICKER ACCELERATION
To adapt the F40 to North American applications and maximize performance, 3rd through 6th gears have been changed to higher-ratio gears. The ratio for 3rd gear is now 1.37:1, and the ratio for 4th gear is no longer an overdrive, with a new ratio of 1.05:1. The 5th gear ratio is 0.85:1 and the 6th gear ratio is 0.71:1.
LOW MAINTENANCE
The MT2/MU9 uses a Castrol Burmah (BOT 0063) manual transmission fluid, and is validated as "fill-for-life". No maintenance is required for normal operation.
OVERVIEW
Originally a design developed for Fiat, Opel and Saab applications, the F40 (MT2) is a GM Powertrain - Europe six-speed manual transaxle built in Russelsheim, Germany. Its first use in a North American application was the Pontiac G6 for the 2006 model year. It is also used in some Saab 9-3 and 9-5 models.
It is a three-axis design, with first, second, fifth, and sixth gears on an output shaft behind and below the input shaft, and third and fourth gears are on an output shaft in front of and above the input shaft. Both output shaft pinions drive a helical gear with a conventional differential. The clutch is mounted on a dual-mass flywheel to dampen vibrations on whichever output shaft is idle depending upon which gear is selected.
The F40 is cast in aluminum, and weighs 124 pounds (see specs). It has been certified for up to 400 Nm of engine torque.
Triple-cone synchronizers are used on 1st and 2nd gears. These synchronizers have three friction surfaces, which increase their ability to transfer the flow of torque more smoothly from one gear to another. Synchronizers act as clutches to speed up or slow down the gearsets that are being shifted to, and greater friction area results in easier shifting for the driver. The 3rd, 4th, and reverse synchronizers are double-cone, while the 5th and 6th gear synchronizers are single-cone. All of the friction surfaces on the synchronizer rings are sintered bronze. The ratios in the 6-speed are widely spaced for versatile performance and efficiency.
Some of this 2007 info won't apply to my unit. Note that 400 newton/meters equals about 295 ft/lbs
Edited by F14CRAZY (07/07/07 08:57 AM)
_________________________
My name is Philip.
'89 coupe
'90 white coupe (brother's, being reconstructed)
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#433792 - 07/07/07 09:56 AM
Re: Series II L67/ 6 speed manual conversion
[Re: F14CRAZY]
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DarkHorizon
New Member
Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 3
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I have done a few 3800 swaps out here in Flint, surprised I didn't run into on Dort, as I bought a 97 3800 yesterday from RPM auto salvage for my next project. I pretty much live at those yards looking for gems in the form of L67's. You'll find that flint junkyards seem to be a different world, not many are in tune with the car-part.com, so prices seem to be whatever you want them to be if you can talk with the guys enough.
If you have any questions feel free to ask. I have put together alot of exhaust systems, so I sorta know how to suggest a system to specific characteristics. I have done a ton of wiring, its to the point now where I can put harnesses together in a few hours.
I have a phone number that you can call me at, or just ask questions here. Just pm me either here or on PFF under the same name.
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#433798 - 07/07/07 10:59 AM
Re: Series II L67/ 6 speed manual conversion
[Re: F14CRAZY]
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DarkHorizon
New Member
Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 3
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no, I didnt see you, but I did get a motor for $200, with 132k on it. Its in really nice shape.
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#433962 - 07/08/07 01:08 PM
Re: Series II L67/ 6 speed manual conversion
[Re: F14CRAZY]
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F14CRAZY
Long Time Member
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 4847
Loc: Dimondale, MI
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