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#369538 - 08/14/06 02:58 PM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: Barry Wolk]
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tbirdman
Member
Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 1094
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Quote:
DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
8-10-2006 I carelessly damaged my Mark II as I pulled it out of the garage to go to a Press Preview of the Willistead Classic. It's parked on a four post lift, in the down position during the summer as I park the Porsche on top for winter storage.
I pulled too far over and took off the Mark II emblem and left a very nasty set of gouges in the paint with the lift's support cable. I went to the Press Preview anyway.
About a year ago I did something like you did with your Mark II. I backed off my 4 post lift and scrapped the garage door opening. I didn't notice it until I got to the car cruise where someone else discovered this white stripe on the quarter panel. At first I couldn't figure out where it came from. I was looking for a white car in the parking lot! But thanks to a good wax job and luck, I removed the stripe with gental ise of metal polish. Turns out I had hit the garage door opening just barely enough to transfer paint from the garage to the Bird. Also the wood was soft so there was the slightest of indentation on the wood with a trace of red paint.
Good luck on your repairs.
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#369540 - 08/14/06 05:06 PM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: Packard8]
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South_paw
Member
Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 104
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Barry, I think i figured it out. You have a boxed frame. Those clamps are designed to work with a C channel trailer frame. The bolt when used with a "C" channel frames helps anchor the clamp. In your case the clamp can easily walk off the frame. It doesn't make a difference how tight you make the bolt if it doesn't anchor under the rail it could pop off. The bar can move upward causing the chain to just pull it off 1 2 3.
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#369541 - 08/14/06 05:52 PM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: South_paw]
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Barry Wolk
Member
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1146
Loc: Farmington Hills, MI
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Quote:
Barry, I think i figured it out. You have a boxed frame. Those clamps are designed to work with a C channel trailer frame. The bolt when used with a "C" channel frames helps anchor the clamp. In your case the clamp can easily walk off the frame. It doesn't make a difference how tight you make the bolt if it doesn't anchor under the rail it could pop off. The bar can move upward causing the chain to just pull it off 1 2 3.
That's a real good point. I can see how a "C" channel or an "I" beam would have retained the bracket because the bolt would stop at the flange. As long as everything was in tension everything was fine.
I suppose that's a possibility. Should I have been able to foresee this potential? Nothing in the instructions would lead one to believe that a box chassis was incompatable with their product.
To me this begs the question, "If a safety device fails, shouldn't it fail in a less dramatic manner than the problem it was designed to solve?"
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#369542 - 08/14/06 08:30 PM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: Barry Wolk]
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South_paw
Member
Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 104
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Quote:
I suppose that's a possibility. Should I have been able to foresee this potential? Nothing in the instructions would lead one to believe that a box chassis was incompatible with their product.
The real question is, does any company manufacture a bumper pull trailer with a boxed frame? I never seen one. So how can a WD hitch manufacturer offer instructions for something that isn't built?
Quote:
To me this begs the question, "If a safety device fails, shouldn't it fail in a less dramatic manner than the problem it was designed to solve?"
Well no. A WD hitch is designed to distribute weight evenly across the tow vehicle. This makes for a more stable tow vehicle(front end on the ground instead of in the air). A WD hitch does NOT control trailer sway. Thats what a sway control bar is for. This brings me to my next point. I don't think the clamp sliding off was the lone culprit.
It was a combination of the following;
Low tongue weight(I would love to know what your calculated tongue weight was)
Improperly secured load,once that Porcshe started moving back there it was over(cross those straps).
Over compensation by the driver.
Lack of a sway control bar
and the WD hitch clamp.
Barry thats a huge trailer that sits high up. Sway will be your worst enemy. Please invest in that hitch I listed above.
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#369544 - 08/15/06 09:19 AM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: South_paw]
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BillP
Member
Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 721
Loc: NE Ohio
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quote:
"The real question is, does any company manufacture a bumper pull trailer with a boxed frame? I never seen one. So how can a WD hitch manufacturer offer instructions for something that isn't built?"
I have a 2 or 3 year old Pace GT, 24 foot enclosed, bumper pull trailer. The frame is box steel tubing. It wasn't special ordered that way, so maybe all Paces are that way. I haul one of my (heavy) pre-war cars in it and find if I don't have the car far enough forward it wags like my Black Lab pup. Putting the car so close to the back end as in Barry's Spartan, in my limited experience, could lead to sway problems.
I'm not well-versed in these things so don't understand how the load-leveling system would take such a large amount of weight off the back of the trailer and put it on the tongue, unless you really, really jack up the back end, enough to move the CG sufficiently forward. Probably ignorance on my part, so don't waste a lot time explaining.
No offense intended, Barry; just interested in your project. The trailer idea and the work you did to bring it to reality is terrific.
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#369546 - 08/15/06 11:33 AM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: Friartuck]
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Barry Wolk
Member
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1146
Loc: Farmington Hills, MI
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The brakes didn't come on the first time because they take a moment to load. It's a hydraulic actuator that pushes fluid to 24 pistons on the 3 axles. The second time I tried they came on right away as some pressure had already been built up.
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#369549 - 08/15/06 01:16 PM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: Barry Wolk]
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F12MAC
New Member
Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 3
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BARRY HAVE FOLLOWED YOUR PROJECT WITH GREAT INTEREST SORRY ABOT THE DISASTER,I DO BELIEVE
YOU SHOULD HAVE SWAY CONTROL ARMS USE TWO,HOWEVER I NOTICE IN THE PICTURE OF YOUR HITCH
INSTALLED IN THE TRAILER TONGUE THERE IS NOT ANY CASTER ON THE RECIVER,HITCHES OF THIS TYPE
CAN BE SET UP TO HAVE CASTER SO THAT THE TRAILER WILL LEAD AS IN THE STEERING ON A CAR,
ALSO WHEN THE RECIVER IS INSTALLED IN THE HITCH HOW MUCH FURTHER INTO THE HITCH WITHOUT THE PIN
INSTALLED WILL IT GO,IF IT WILL GO MORE REDRILL THE PIN HOLE, YOU WANT THE BALL AS CLOSE TO THE BUMPER AS POSSIBLE LEAVEING ROOM FOR TURNING 1 TO 2 INCHES WILL MAKE A DIFFERNCE.YOUR TOW
VEHICLE IS GOOD NOT MANY TRUCK WOULD KEEP THE REAR END PLANTED ENOUGH TO HAVE THE RECIEVER
BEND 20 DEGREES THAT IS A LARGE FORCE WHEN A TRAILER SWINGS. LASTLY AT 45 MPH I DONT
THINK THE TRAILER SHOULD HAVE FISHTAILED.FISHTAILING OR SWAY REALY MEANS THE TRAILER IS
GOING FASTER THAN THE TOW VEHICLE THAT IS WHY YOU ARE TOLD PEDAL[GAS] TO WOOD TO BRING A TRAILER
UNDER CONTROL JUST A COUPLE OF THOUGHTS THANKS PETE
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#369551 - 08/15/06 01:59 PM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: F12MAC]
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Barry Wolk
Member
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 1146
Loc: Farmington Hills, MI
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Your last comment intrigues me. You say to accelerate out of a sway. I was told that the most effective way to bring a trailer under control is to apply the trailer brakes to drag the tow vehicle straight. Which is it?
In fact, I did apply the brakes and the pair did snap fairly straight. I see your point, too.
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#369552 - 08/15/06 02:05 PM
Re: DISASTERS TEND TO HAPPEN IN THREES
[Re: Barry Wolk]
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F12MAC
New Member
Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 3
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WHAT IS FASTER? FOOT TO FLOOR,REACH DOWN BY STEERING COLUMN AND PUSH BUTTON
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