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Pedal Car Auction

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Night at the AACA Museum Charity Gala

Wed, Oct 8, 7-10PM.

Enjoy an evening of all things automotive. FINS exhibit, guest speakers, and a unique pedal car auction by RM Auctions.

Tickets required.


NEW! Safari

1941 Packard

1956 Cadillac

Packard protégé

1953 Oldsmobile Fiesta

Buick Y Job

2 of the pedal cars will be auctioned on Wed, Oct 8, the balance will be auctioned at the RM Auctions on Friday.

Proceeds to benefit the AACA and AACA Museum.

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#320142 - 12/12/05 12:45 PM Help with unknown car ID
gwells Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Norcross, GA
Can anyone identify this car shown in the attached photo?

Just trying to assist a friend . . .

Greg


Attachments
342699-unknown-car.gif (450 downloads)


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#320143 - 12/12/05 12:53 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: gwells]
R W Burgess Administrator Offline
Long Time Member

Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 10797
Loc: Warsaw, Va.
Whoa! Those guys look like they're ready for a severe road trip. Stand by. I'm sure help is on the way, gwells.

Wayne

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#320144 - 12/12/05 12:54 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: gwells]
West Peterson Administrator Offline
Long Time Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 3096
Loc: Dayton
You have friends?
Tell your friend it's not a Jaguar... if that's what he's thinking.
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#320145 - 12/12/05 01:19 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: West Peterson]
gwells Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Norcross, GA
Well, I thought I had three friends, but since your post I realize I'm down to just two.

Related funny story, though a bit off topic:

Herbert Hoover, who presided over the start and the first three years of the Great Depression from 1929 until his defeat by Franklin Roosevelt in 1932, was out walking one day with his Secretary of the Treasury, Andrew Mellon.

"Andy, I seem to have come out without any money," said Hoover. "Lend me a nickel, I have to phone a friend." Mellon replied, "Here's a dime. Call both of them".

West, the pic was indeed posted to a Jaguar forum, but I don't think he believes it to be a Jag. I'm a little miffed I can't ID the car, but it's obviously pre-1910 or so and cars of that era are not my forte.

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#320146 - 12/12/05 01:21 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: West Peterson]
24T42 Moderator Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/00
Posts: 785
Loc: North Carolina
I can't help you with what car it is. I will leave that to the experts. What I found interesting is that all the lamps are covered up. They must have just polished the brass! Neat picture.
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Brass-Nickel Touring Region
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#320147 - 12/12/05 01:41 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: gwells]
West Peterson Administrator Offline
Long Time Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 3096
Loc: Dayton
I'm jus going to throw this out as a pure guess... Fiat???
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#320148 - 12/12/05 02:07 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: 24T42]
R W Burgess Administrator Offline
Long Time Member

Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 10797
Loc: Warsaw, Va.
Judy, I was thinking they were protecting them from the elements. The top up, with curtains would certainly help too, right?

Wayne

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#320149 - 12/12/05 08:44 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: gwells]
K8096 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 675
I'm leaning towards this picture being taken in Europe and not America.

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#320150 - 12/12/05 09:48 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: K8096]
Chris Paulsen Offline
Member

Registered: 02/29/00
Posts: 325
Loc: McPherson, KS, USA
I agree...I think it is European. It looks like the hood has latches and removeable panels. If so, that should help narrow down an identification.
If I can come up with a guess, I will certainly post it.
Chris

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#320151 - 12/12/05 09:56 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: Chris Paulsen]
1956Packard Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 315
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I'm just a 'young' guy, but I would have put the picture in Europe during the war and the lamps were covered for black out reasons (Or have I been watching too many movies??). Note uniform.
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#320152 - 12/13/05 02:56 AM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: gwells]
olcarherb Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 101
Hi guys! Thanks for posting the interesting picture and relating the neat Hoover story gwells. Any guy named Herb can't be all bad can we? Guess he was just in the wrong place (the Presidency) at the wrong time (just before the "great" (guess it wasn't really great for those who experienced it huh?) depression). Sorry West, but I don't believe it's a F.I.A.T. Right continent, wrong country. Of course it's not a Jag either - about 1/2 a generation (of people) too old to be a cat, but I believe that's the right Church (country) but wrong pew (marque). Judy, you are correct, and '56 Packard, I believe you are not, in that the lamp covers (during blackouts one restricts a vehicle light's output rather than covering the lamp completely) are to protect the brass from tarnishing. Some Horseless Carriage people (those who don't lacquer or otherwise "protect" their brass) still use them! And hey! I'm a "young guy" too: 48 and Chris Paulsen is a hell of a lot younger than me. What are you Chris, just short of 30? OK, now for my "educated" guess. I believe the mystery car to be a circa 1908 (anywhere from '06 to '10 or '11 is a possibility I guess) (english) Daimler 5 passenger touring car with a "king of Belgium" body. Daimler was the marque used to transport the (English) Royal Family for many years, though I'm not sure if that was the case over 90 years ago when this photo undoubtedly was taken. It may have been a dual chain drive model but you can't really tell from the photo. Also note the "tool boxes" under the running board - very European. These were not very common on American cars of the era, though my '06 Lozier (Plattsburgh N.Y. mfred and also double chain drive) has slightly different ones. (The designer of my Lozier "borrowed" many ideas from the Mercedes Simplex and the leading French cars of the day.) BTW, I'm not sure the uniform is gov't issue (armed forces or ?). Chauffeurs of the period wore very similar coats and caps and it wouldn't be totally unknown for a chauffeur to be positioned in the rear of the car for a photograph. But my eyes aren't good enuff to tell for sure - Hey maybe I'm not so young after all!

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#320153 - 12/13/05 06:12 AM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: 1956Packard]
Restorer32 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 1989
Loc: South Central Pa.
The guy in the back looks a bit like Wayne Newton.
_________________________
1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe
1933 Packard Coupe Sedan
1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead

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#320154 - 12/13/05 11:34 AM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: Restorer32]
gwells Offline
Member

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Norcross, GA
Herb, while Daimler is a good guess, take a look at the attached picture, which shows a 1908 Daimler. Note the distinctive radiator, which my 'Net searching seems to suggest was a Daimler feature. So I'm thinking that it is not a Daimler.

Here's some further info from the person originally seeking the ID of this vehicle:

"We have found that the photograph was taken by A H Vogt - a
professional photographer from 27 New Street, Daventry, in
Northamptonshire; possibly outside an hotel.

The owner, a (presumably wealthy) cotton trader is driving.

The car has no front brakes, and there is some embellishment
on the front of the radiator header tank, but I can't make
out what it is - a central motif with something each side
and above it."


Attachments
342945-Daimler_1908.jpg (96 downloads)


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#320155 - 12/13/05 01:23 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: gwells]
Silverghost Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 617
Loc: Huntingdon Valley PA
I,myself, would like to know what or WHO is wrapped-up in that canvas on the runnng board?
Might be a still shot from the soon to be released "Godfather...The Early Years" ...
Could it be an early "Family" burial crew Squad...Too early for a Lincoln Town Car as is commonly used today!!! The headlamps are covered out of "Respect for the deceased!!!"
Way too early to be Jimmy Hoffa...How about Rasputin???...Could it be the Tzar's nephiew in the uniform in back... Photo taken just months before the big Russian Revolution!!!
Very historical photo...
Or are "The Boys" just setting out on a "Camping Trip" with an old Army tent???
At any rate.. My "Vote" is for Daimler or Graf & Stift [Vienna]
What are those thick metal plates bolted onto the engine hood??? (Blow-up photo to inspect plates)
During WW I there are many stories of wealthy car owners "Enlisting along with their Great cars!!!" There are many great true stories of Rolls~Royce Silver Ghosts and their owners, along with their fine autos, used as messangers,drivers for General officers,scouts,and Ambulances to pick-up the wounded. Cars were in very short supply at this time...Horses still ruled the battlefield as the major form of transportation . In many ways Cars were more valuable than men. These plates on the hood could be a crude early form of armor plating. People were expendable...engines+ cars were not!!! Many cars were taken by the government and used for the war effort!!!


Edited by Silverghost (12/13/05 02:52 PM)
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#320156 - 12/13/05 02:06 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: gwells]
Silverghost Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 617
Loc: Huntingdon Valley PA
I ,myself, still think that this is a WW I wartime photo. The lamps are covered to hide the brightwork...not as black-out lights. I still believe that the thick metal plates carriage bolted to the engine hood bonnet in a rough manner are an early form of armor plate to protect the engine.
After the "Great War to End All Wars" little was left of these great old autos...Sometimes only the chassis + engine and drive train. Many cars still exist today that were used in this manner. After the war the owners of the cars were offered the cars back or a small sum of cash!!! Most just took the money...The government just scrapped the car...very sad indeed!!! Some do still exist!!! Both great wars took a heavy toll on many great old autos...Scrap drives and the like... I have a 1926 Rolls~Royce that was slated for the WWII scrap effort...I have documents to back up this fact... The Scrap dealer hid the car until after the war...He then sold the car after the war!!!


Edited by Silverghost (12/13/05 02:50 PM)
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silverghost1926@msn.com
Unable to respond to PM from this site...
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#320157 - 12/13/05 04:37 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: Silverghost]
West Peterson Administrator Offline
Long Time Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 3096
Loc: Dayton
Good premise, but the car would have been at least 10 years old when WWI came about. Its condition is too nice to be 10 years old. I think if you could see the hood clearly, it would reveal that there is no armored plating.
However, it sure looks like the Daimler to me, too, except for the grille. The question, I guess, is did Daimler use that heavy fluted grille (seen in gw's second photograph) when it first started using a normal upright radiator.
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#320158 - 12/13/05 05:09 PM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: West Peterson]
D Binger Offline
Member

Registered: 11/21/99
Posts: 1042
Loc: Cheyenne, WY, USA
West,

I agree with you about when the picture was taken. The car is in too good of shape. As for the lights being covered - - -you have to remember what the roads were like back then. They were more than likely covered so the lenses wouldn't get broken. That is why they usd to tape the lenses on race cars. They would uncovered them if and when they drove at night.
Dan

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#320159 - 12/19/05 03:24 AM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: D Binger]
brockway Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/04
Posts: 104
Loc: Finland

c.1906-1908 British made car. Could be Humber.
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I'm 24 years old and I like original pre-1940 automobiles.

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#320160 - 12/19/05 07:38 AM Re: Help with unknown car ID [Re: brockway]
DizzyDale Offline
Member

Registered: 02/15/02
Posts: 2027
Loc: Buffalo,N.Y.
C,mon Bob tell everyone what we got here.diz

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