OK, battery was dead within 4 days from when it did turn over. I remember an article in auto restorer talking about how to track down a drain with a test light but cannot remember exactly how to do this. I thought it had something to do with touching the fuse box and if it barely glows thats at least one line to check. It seems like this started when I changed out the steering wheel. I had to rob a turn signal cancelling pin from a tilt wheel to put on a standard wheel cause the horns were messing up. I set it to manual specs and have good strong horns without any extra contacts now but it sure seems like it is the place to start. Is there a way to test light this to look for a short? If not I thought to charge the battery up and pull the wheel. If the battery is still strong by Monday, it would have to be related.

Hello Pat:

Here is a technique I have used successfully in the past.

1) Get a small 12V lamp (preferably one used for instrument lighting). You want a lamp which 'draws' minimal current.
2) Either get a socket with leads or solder leads to this lamp.
3) Make sure all known electrical loads are switched off & close all doors.
4) Disconnect the negative battery cable and connect the test lamp leads between the battery post & the disconnected cable.
5) If the lamp glows, even dimly, there is current being 'drawn' somewhere in the electrical system.
Let's narrow down the 'drain'...
6) Reconnect the battery negative cable & move to the fuse block.
7) Remove one fuse at at time and touch the test lamp leads to the fuse holder clips. If the lamp glows, there is a current 'drain' in that circuit.

Know that with a door open, one or more interior courtesy lamps will come on. You should remove those lamps if you need to keep a door open to comfortably access the fuse block.

The test lamp is functioning as a current flow indicator. The smaller the test lamp (in terms of it's wattage), the more sensitive it will be in detecting a drain.

Something to consider: Some circuits may be protected by a fusible link & not pass through the fuse block. A fusible link is simply a short insulated piece of wire spliced in series with the wire of a particular circuit. If you detect a drain at the battery, but all fuse block circuits check out OK, then the drain is in a circuit protected by a fusible link. You really need a complete wiring diagram to further diagnose the problem.

I'm not sure when GM began using fusible links so your '64 may or may not have them.

Keep us posted.

Paul

Thank you thank you thank you. That was what I remember reading now! I'm heading to Hershey Tuesday so I may not be able to chase this down until next week but will post my results. I'll try to at least do the first test after work tomorrow.

I had a 1961 Buick LeSabre with a fusible link (which gave trouble), so GM was using them by that time.

By the way, I need a few 1964 Starfire parts, if you have any of this: Socket & wire pigtail for map light in dashboard; neutral safety switch (at bottom of shift lever in console); turn signal switch & yoke for tilt steering column.

Pete Phillips
Sherman, TX

I'll have time to look when I get in next week. I'm positive I have a dash light/ map spare. I'm not sure about the other parts electrical but can probably scrounge up a lever.

Ok, update time. I hate when work, family, life get in the way of tackling these problems quickly! Anyway, I caved and got a new battery as a cell was not charging before starting the above tests. Got a low watt bulb and socket, placed on + cable and unhooked - and NO LIGHT at all. So now I'm thinking, all it was was a bad battery that coincidentally was losing charge due to the bad cell. However, I did find the underhood light wire was split and a light tug pulled it out of the lamp. This only turns on with the headlights, so could this be a drain anyway? Furthermore, the car started right up but I noticed the oil dummy light did not light before starting and the GEN dummy light did not either. Instrument lights worked though. Upon shutting it off, the GEN light turned on! This stayed on as I put the key in accessory position, off, and run. All three! So, next I started up again, GEN light goes off. Shut down, GEN light stays off. Indicative of an ignition switch going bad or bigger wiring probs? I guess I've been fortunate as I've never had these problems with a car before but now know why farmers ditch cars behind the shed!

Pete, send me an address. I have the map light stuff but unsure about the console switch. I may find a used one, would that help? Pat

Pat, look at the plastic connector on ignition switch, esp around the red hot wire. These cars are bad about melting them and I think the ground for bulb test wire is right next to the 12v source wire.

Checked the connector and don't see any evidence of melted plastic. This has to mean something but in one day, that new battery has lost enough charge to not start the car again! Interior lights are on bright but try to engage the starter and that clicking noise is back and the starter won't turn. Pulled the battery and put in another car with same result, so battery is back on charger for the night. This is nuts. How can this drain but not light up the light for the test method described above? Should I change all cables to start? I would think not showing up with the light but strong enough to drain in 12 hrs would be a large cable.

I reread the sequence of how to test. I've been touching the + and not the - terminal. Going out to do what I think I was doing wrong.

Well, shot that theory in the a**. Unless I need a FULLY charged battery, it has enough juice to run headlights. Unplugged the - cable and put one side of pigtail on - terminal, the other on the - cable. No light!

Hi Pat:

Just be sure that you connect the test light BETWEEN the disconnected negative battery cable clamp and the negative battery post. You want the test light to be in series with the main electrical system return. This will allow any current flow to light the bulb.

You'll find the source of the drain...

Paul

Didn't see this post before I responded...

OK... It's possible that even with a small wattage bulb, a small drain may not cause the lamp to glow at all (I don't know the size of the bulb you're using).

Here is a much more accurate way to measure a current drain. Buy an inexpensive digital multimeter. You can get one at an auto parts store or at Radio Shack. Start with a high range on the DC current (AMPS) scale and once again connect the meter between the disconnected negative battery cable & negative battery post. Don't worry about which way you connect the probes. If nothing registers, select the next lower range. Keep going until you get a reading.

As an initial test while in the highest range, open the door or turn on the dome lights. This will confirm a current drain.

If a fully charged battery is discharging enough to 'chatter' the starter solenoid AND the same battery won't start another car, there has to be a current drain in your car.

BTW: a digital multimeter is an essential took for troubleshooting electrical problems as it measures volts, amps and ohms...

Paul

pfloro is right about a multimeter being sensitive, and sitting here, it's not easy troubleshooting with so many unknowns.
Let's do the math: If you have a 60-amp/hour battery and it drains in 24 hours, (60/24=2.5amps) If yours is really draining in 12 hours, it is constantly losing FIVE amps every hour. That's huge! ANY size bulb will shine with five amps.

I was going to suggest you buy an LED and a 1,000-ohm series-resistor, but your light bulb should work just fine. Because a completed circuit requires two wires, you can use that light on either Positive or Negative terminals with equal results. The corroded hood light isn't your problem. You can either tape the wire off, or re-connect to a new light socket.

You have a burned-out "OIL" light in your dash. It should shine as soon as your key is turned to "RUN" (with the engine off).

The "GEN" light is MUCH more important. It actually excites the alternator to produce power.

Your description about the "GEN" light scares me. That light should go OFF when you take the key out. If it stays on, your voltage regulator might be powering the generator field all the time, and THAT's where your drain is.

It is possible, when you pull the battery cable off, you are resetting the alternator regulator relay, and the drain goes away. If you can pull the regulator cover off, you can see the relays. With your key OUT, #4 (BROWN) should be dead (check it with your light to NEG). Have someone turn the key to "RUN" and "OFF" while you watch the relays work. See if pulling the battery cable transitions the relay. Try it with the key both on, then off. Here's your schematic:

If this proves to be the problem, either your ignition switch is bad (probably is), or your alternator regulator relay contacts are sticking (pull a battery cable off, then use a small file or sandpaper on the contacts).

I got a dash bulb. The guy at the auto store read the post and said it had the best chance of lighting. Got a tester today but may not get a chance to use until Sat morning. What is the high range? There is a DCV area and DCA area. I think you want me to use the DCA but what is high? It has 200u, 2000u, 20m, 200m as choices.

Pat:

You want measure current so use DCA (DC AMPS).

The 200m (200 milliamp) may be the highest range that you have on this meter. 200m = .2A. A milliamp is 'one thousandth' of an amp. 20m is a 'more sensitive' range since it's measuring .02A.

The 'u' ranges measure microamps. A microamp is 'one millionth' of an amp!

Check the instructions as I would hope this meter is capable of measuring up to perhaps 1 amp (or more). Sometimes you need to move the red (positive) probe to another terminal hole to measure higher range amps... As simplyconnected has indicated, your current drain situation appears to be in the 'whole amp' range...

Now I hate to get too technical but if your meter can only measure up to .2 amp and you 'draw' more current than that while testing, the meter will probably blow an internal fuse to protect itself. This should be replaceable from inside the meter. Again..., read the meter manual before you start.

Paul

FYI: Newer cars with computers or even older cars with electronically tuned radios will have a current drain of 10 or 20 milliamps with everything turned off. This 'parasitic' current draw is maintaining the memory within the electronic circuits.

Rule of thumb, Pat: ALWAYS use the highest setting and work down. You will probably use your meter to measure VOLTS, most of the time.
Use what you already know; your house is 120ACVolts, so use the 200ACVolt scale for measuring wall receptacles, and 2000VAC for your range receptacle because 230V is over 200ACV.
You know your car is 13DCVolts, so use the 20DCV scale, (if you have one). This will tell you if your battery is below 13DCVolts. (For starting, 12 is good, 8 is not.)

For troubleshooting car problems, the dash light bulb works perfectly. It indicates the presence of 12V, or not.

The DCAmps area of your meter is for measuring VERY SMALL amounts of current flow:
200u-amps = 0.000200 amps (from .000001amps to 200 micro amps scale)
2000u-amps =0.002000 amps
20m-amps = 0.020 amps (maximum of 20 milliamps)
200m-amps =0.200 amps (maximum of .2 amps DC)
This meter isn't very useful on a car because it can't measure up to ten amps DC. Remember, we determined your "leak" is around five amps continuously. This (amp)meter only goes up to .2 amps. If you exceed .2 amps, you will probably blow a fuse in your meter.

For BENCH-checking fuses (not powered), use the RESISTANCE scale. Start with the highest scale, and put the prods across a good fuse, then a bad one. You will see how it works.

Sorry, pfloro. I took too long doing the picture and didn't see your post. (I'm glad we agree.)

OK, here is where I'm at so far. I plugged the red into the 10 ADC outlet on the meter and set the DCA at 200m. I get a steady -.3 I tried pulling ALL fuses out, no change. I pulled off the horn plug from the junction, no change. Pulled the starter cable and purple lead, no change. That left a black line at the junction and a red line. Black, no change. Red, reading dropped to 0. Looking at schematics, it seems this red line is the main fuse box line, ignition switch, regulator, etc. If all the fuses are pulled but the drain is still there, does this mean it has to be the regulator or alternator? I hope this is narrowing this down.

BTW, how do I test to see if the oil dummy light is bad or the switch in the block? It would seem a lot easier to change the plug if that's what's bad. Will a test light show a charge to it or do I measure resistance on either side of the plug. What do I set a meter to and what is normal?

What happened when you tried my suggestion?

Pat, we are trying to detect the presence of VOLTAGE. Use the light. Your meter measurement of .2 milliamps is an open circuit. (0.0002amps won't light a single LED.)

By the way, tell us what settings your new meter has, or take a digital picture and post it.

The dash light bulb does not light up even dimly. I had my wife turn the key to run and saw nothing move. Hit the starter and the metal tab energized and released once started. Turned off and repeated same results. Normal? I'll go out yet tonight and run sequence again to be sure I'm accurate.

This time I had the wife turn the key to accessory, no GEN light. Run position, GEN light on. Hit starter, relay closed and released after starting, GEN light off. Turn key back to off, GEN light off but relay closed so that tab is touching metal. This should remain open after shutting off right?

I don't know what a tab is, unless you are describing the moveable relay contact.

Your key switch supplies +12v to the GEN light, then it goes to #4 (brown wire) on your alternator regulator. THIS is where you should use your test light. (From Battery NEG to #4 on the regulator). It is a way to check your ignition switch. You don't really have to start the engine. What's important is that when you take the key out (off position), your test light ALWAYS goes out, when attached to #4.

So far we have not found a battery drain. I suspect that your key switch is intermittantly passing power, even though it is off:

When an engine chokes and dies (key still in RUN), the GEN light should be on. As you can see from the electrical diagram, the GEN wire (brown) goes through a relay contact and then goes to the FIELD winding. That 'flashes' which creates a slight magnetism. The current isn't much because it's also going through your GEN bulb. A burned out GEN light will stop your alternator from working properly.

My question is, what is your test light showing you when attached to the brown #4 wire? Cycle the key six times and see if it ever passes power when in the OFF position.

OK, results. Test light did not light on brown wire. Key in accessory position, test light lit, no GEN light. Key in off position multiple times, test light off. Key in run position, test light lit and GEN light on. Will try again later today as the light was definately on before with key in off position. As per the tab, yes it is the relay. Key in run position, Gen on and contact closed. Hit key to start, car starts and when key returns to run position, the relay opens. Turn car off, GEN off and relay closes to touch together again. Repeated this several times with the relay responding the same.