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#543100 - 10/08/08 08:16 PM Re: lights but no action ** [Re: Ronnie]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
I am going to attempt to send you a couple of pictures. The one is the ignition switch contact. If I am not mistaken the yellow wire is the one top all the way to the right. I can't identify that for a certainty but by eliminating the other colored wires and where they fit into it was a process of elimination. The second picture is of the rats nest under my dash. The guy who had the car before put some aftermarket radio and CD player in and spliced wires all over the place. If you can identify the relay that might be bad please point it out to me. Thank you!


Attachments
DSC00433.JPG (25 downloads)
DSC00435.JPG (26 downloads)
DSC00434.JPG (17 downloads)


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#543102 - 10/08/08 08:23 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: simplyconnected]
Ronnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Good job, Ronnie! Not only did you walk him through the circuit, you provided the electrical diagram! Excellent! - Dave Dare

Thanks Dave. I hope we eventually get his problem corrected.
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#543113 - 10/08/08 09:12 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
Ronnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Tennessee
I really can't tell anything much from the photos. I do feel there may be some big wiring problems with all the splices. It is never good to see two different colored wires spliced together.

IF you can trace the yellow wire from the ignition switch it should lead to the Starter Interrupt Relay.

Were you able to test the yellow wire for 12 volts by back probing the ignition switch connector while holding the ignition switch in the start position?
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#543173 - 10/09/08 10:12 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: Ronnie]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
Ronnie, something is wrong here.. big time, If DSC435 in my prior post is in fact the ignition switch area you wanted me to test, there is a problem I can't understand. In the attached photos I followed the yellow wire from the ignition switch to where it is spliced to a white wire. It then goes to the other side of the console. I took a picture of the plug it is attached to. The plug had black tape over it. There is another plug near by that also had black tape over the end. When I took the black tape off of that plug there are two wires coming out of the plug that are unusable, it looks like somebody did that on purpose. There are two wires that go to the other side of the console, the one, yellow, that comes from the ignition switch and the other that comes from this block of wires in one of the pictures that is attached That is also a yellow wire. ???? After all this mess I am afraid I won't hear from you again. Ha.


Attachments
DSC00438.JPG

DSC00439.JPG

DSC00440.JPG

DSC00441.JPG (25 downloads)
DSC00442.JPG (19 downloads)


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#543176 - 10/09/08 10:22 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
I will try to get the rest of the photos in this message.


Attachments
DSC00443.JPG (11 downloads)
DSC00440.JPG

DSC00438.JPG

DSC00439.JPG



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#543179 - 10/09/08 10:31 AM snowdrift [Re: snowdrift]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
I will try sending one at a time.


Attachments
DSC00438.JPG




Edited by snowdrift (10/09/08 10:36 AM)

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#543185 - 10/09/08 10:43 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
Ronnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Tennessee
Follow the link in my signature line for instructions on the best way to post photos.

I still can't tell much from the photos. In photo 435 there appears to be a yellow wire at the top left of the photo. Would you please test that terminal while holding the ignition key turned to the "Start" position for 12 volts so we can eliminate a bad ignition as the problem. Is there 12 volts at that terminal?

I agree the wiring is a mess and looks like it may in fact be dangerous. AFTER we find your starting problem I would highly recommend you go over all the splices and check them for a good connection, remove the old tape and re-tape everything so you don't have to worry about a fire in the future.

If you will follow my instructions we will get your car to start.
_________________________
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#543187 - 10/09/08 10:57 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: Ronnie]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
Ronnie, I did test that terminal and did not receive anything at all. I followed the wire and it is spliced to a white wire that leads to the connection in one of the pictures that was taped over. There are two yellow, or originally was yellow wires that end up at that taped over terminal.

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#543189 - 10/09/08 11:03 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
I will try sending couple following your directions.


Attachments
DSC00440.JPG

DSC00443.JPG (16 downloads)


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#543190 - 10/09/08 11:06 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
I did follow your instructions I am not sure why it only lets us open one picture. The picture in the top thread represents the second yellow wire going to the same circuit as the other yellow wire that starts out at the ignition switch. They end up in the connector that was taped over.

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#543191 - 10/09/08 11:09 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
bobby valines Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 130
Loc: boynton beach FL
I was a electrician for ten years, just a little word of advice. Don'T look at the hole picture,just one wire at a time,other wise you'll go crazy.You guys are doing great were rooting for you.
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#543196 - 10/09/08 11:40 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: bobby valines]
Ronnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Tennessee
OK, lets take a deep breath and relax. Forget about photos for a while and concentrate on determining for sure if you have a good ignition switch or a bad ignition switch. I know it seems like I keep going back to the ignition switch but we must know and agree on the condition of the switch before we go any further.
_________________________________________________________

You must be absolutely certain that the red wire has 12 volts all the time. Does it have 12 volts???

With the ignition switch wiring connected to the switch, and the key turned to the "Start" position and held there, do you have 12 volts on the terminal where the yellow wire is connected???
_________________________________________________________

If the answer is YES the ignition switch is good and we can continue looking elsewhere.

I the answer is NO to question 2 and the yellow wire does NOT have 12 volts when the ignition is turned to start, you have a bad ignition switch and it must be replaced before going any further.

You must have a good ignition switch to logically continue with troubleshooting your problem.
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#543201 - 10/09/08 11:49 AM Re: lights but no action [Re: Ronnie]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
I just went out and by putting a pin in to the yellow wire and striking the wire within I did register 12.7 volts. I repeated the test twice with the same results.

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#543206 - 10/09/08 12:04 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
Ronnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Tennessee

Originally Posted By: snowdrift
Originally Posted By: snowdrift
Ronnie, I did test that terminal and did not receive anything at all. I followed the wire and it is spliced to a white wire that leads to the connection in one of the pictures that was taped over. There are two yellow, or originally was yellow wires that end up at that taped over terminal.
I just went out and by putting a pin in to the yellow wire and striking the wire within I did register 12.7 volts. I repeated the test twice with the same results.

Now we're getting somewhere. The ignition switch seems to check out good.

Can you tell me what the number is of the photo that shows the white wire and the splices that you refer to above?
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#543218 - 10/09/08 01:24 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: Ronnie]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
I believe you are referring to DSC442. That is the wire that starts out in the ignition switch as yellow then is spliced into a white wire that ends up on a connection that was taped over.

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#543228 - 10/09/08 01:55 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
Ronnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: snowdrift

Originally Posted By: snowdrift
I followed the wire and it is spliced to a white wire that leads to the connection in one of the pictures that was taped over. There are two yellow, or originally was yellow wires that end up at that taped over terminal.
I believe you are referring to DSC442. That is the wire that starts out in the ignition switch as yellow then is spliced into a white wire that ends up on a connection that was taped over.


That connection you refer to should be the Starter Interrupt Relay unless someone had removed it or bypassed it. You may find there is a connector under the tape.

Here is what I would do next. Remove the tape where the two yellow wires and the white wire come together. Disconnect and separate them if possible.

Be sure the transmission is in park and the connector to the Transaxle Position Switch is connected properly.

Run a jumper from the positive post on the battery and momentarily touch each yellow wire one at a time. Be careful and don't touch the jumper wire to ground or any other terminals.

Did the starter engage and try to turn the engine when you touched either yellow wire?
_________________________
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#543246 - 10/09/08 03:43 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: Ronnie]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
There was indeed a connector under the tape but there is no place to plug it in. I took the yellow wires apart from there mates and then checked like you said. I didn't get anything at all. I now can't even get any voltage out of the yellow wire coming out of the ignition switch. I tried both the bare wire and the terminal. I am about ready to push her to the back of the yard and let her set. It really is to bad because less then 50 miles ago I put new plugs, plug wires, pvc valve, oxygen sensor, air filter I flushed the brakes with a machine, There are new tires. battery, water pump alternator, and I just redid both lights with Barneys kit. When I started it up after I put in the new plugs etc. It ran everybit as good as my 91 with 29K on it. But, this has me worn out and confused. At this point I really can't afford to take it to a mechanic so the only option is the back yard. I thank you so very much for all your help and patience!! You are one of a kind, that is for sure!!! Best regards Ronnie!

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#543249 - 10/09/08 03:50 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
MauiWowee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 1198
Loc: SW Ohio
Don't give up yet Snowdrift! Ronnie has been methodically eliminating components, and it seems like you are close to the end. Hang in there. I wish I could have him in my corner when I do battle with those little gremlins running around in wiring. cool
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#543254 - 10/09/08 04:10 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
Ronnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Tennessee
I understand your frustration. But don't give up now. You have tried to hard to fix the problem to quit now.

If it were my car and the wiring had been butchered like it appears yours has, I would do the following. Some people will not agree but it should get the car to crank if the ignition switch and the fusible link "C" are good.

Disconnect the white wire that is spliced to the yellow wire at the ignition switch connector.

Connect piece of insulated wire (at least as heavy as the yellow wire) to the yellow wire coming out of the ignition switch connector and run it through a hole in the firewall and out to the Transaxle Position Switch. Cut the yellow wire at the Transaxle Position Switch leaving enough length that will allow you to connect it to the wire you just ran through the firewall. Then you will have a new circuit from the ignition switch to the Transaxle Position Switch. (see red circuit in the photo below.) Tape up the wires that are needing attention so there are no bare wires.

See if the car will start.


Attachments
starter_circuit_jumper.jpg


_________________________
Red '88
Visit my website: ReattaOwners.com
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#543285 - 10/09/08 07:15 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: Ronnie]
snowdrift Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Minnesota
Thanks for the confidence. I just want to go over this to make sure I am on the same page. Where the Yellow wire, that is connected to the ignition switch connector, is spliced to the white wire, unsplice it and connect the yellow wire to a wire that is at least as large and good for at least 12 volts. Run this wire through the firewall and connect it to the yellow wire at the transaxle position switch. I am guessing you mean the switch itself not the connector, is that correct? If it is correct could you give me some pointers as how I can do this. I was barely able to disconnect the connector from the switch because there is so little room and the switch itself seems like there is no extra wire to pull it up or down to work on it. I know there is away, I just don't know what that is. Thank you again for all your help!!

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#543289 - 10/09/08 07:35 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
Ronnie Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 1237
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Where the Yellow wire, that is connected to the ignition switch connector, is spliced to the white wire, unsplice it and connect the yellow wire to a wire that is at least as large and good for at least 12 volts.
That is correct. Wire is normally rated by the amperage it will carry. As long as the diameter of the copper wire in the new wire is as large that in the yellow wire it should be fine.

I don't know how you will be able to do it but you need to cut the yellow wire going into the Transaxle Position Switch and attach the new wire to it in order to provide power to the Transaxle Position Switch as shown in the last photo I posted.

Good luck with running the new wire.
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Visit my website: ReattaOwners.com
Lots of information for new Reatta owners.
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#543298 - 10/09/08 08:17 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: snowdrift]
simplyconnected Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 752
Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan
Originally Posted By: snowdrift
...Run this wire through the firewall and connect it to the yellow wire at the transaxle position switch. I am guessing you mean the switch itself not the connector, is that correct?
I think Ronnie means for you to cut the yellow wire at the transaxle connector (P103), 2-1/2" back so you can use it to splice your new wire.
Just like Ronnie shows on the schematic in RED, Snowdrift.
Splice a new wire onto the yellow wire coming out of ignition switch connector (C202), go thru the firewall to transaxle plug (P103). Find the yellow wire coming out of P103, and cut it 2-1/2" from the plug. Splice your new wire onto the wire going into that plug.
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#543301 - 10/09/08 08:21 PM Re: Reatta Owners near Portland Oregon [Re: snowdrift]
neroco2 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 36
Any Reatta owners out and about near Portland, Oregon out there.

Please let me know.

neroco2
Newberg, Oregon
503-538-9119

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#543309 - 10/09/08 09:24 PM Re: Reatta Owners near Portland Oregon [Re: neroco2]
MauiWowee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 1198
Loc: SW Ohio
Originally Posted By: neroco2
Any Reatta owners out and about near Portland, Oregon out there.

Please let me know.

neroco2
Newberg, Oregon
503-538-9119


You might get more results if you posted this as a new topic. Good luck cool
_________________________
'91 Coupe Maui blue/blue/black
'94 Regal GS 53K

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#543320 - 10/09/08 09:59 PM Re: lights but no action [Re: juddev]
cashbox Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/02
Posts: 19
Loc: tn
This sounds like a key rack problem which means you may have to remove the steering wheel to get to it. I have had to replace more than a few, what happens is the ignition switch is fine but on the end of the switch there is a rack that pushes the rod in the colum which starts the car you may be able to check this by removing the bottom cover and looking at the switch while you turn the key if the rod does not move the rack the ignition rack is broken if thats the case replace it, if the rod moves with the key its good hope this helps.

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