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#534188 - 08/29/08 09:56 AM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: kennyw]
MauiWowee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 1174
Loc: SW Ohio
The GS had a cable that was so full of internal corrosion it caused all sorts of issues. Fortunately I found it before I threw other parts (like a battery) at it. cool
_________________________
'91 Coupe Maui blue/blue/black
'94 Regal GS 53K

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#534230 - 08/29/08 02:05 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: MauiWowee]
Richard S Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 887
Loc: San Diego, CA
Again, thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. I have taken the pictures, Dave, and will post Saturday. I will unravel that wiring and check for shorts. Tomorrow I am also going to try the other suggestions relating to basic batt juice. I am not very good at dealing with wiring diagrams. I have this deep rooted idea that GM did something more than the old system where the ignition switch just completes the circuit between the batt and the starter. It is the process of turning the key to start that makes the entire system go dead. Am I reading the posts correctly that this all there is to that circuit? Is there no ignition relay in that circuit that will trip and reset?
_________________________
Richard
90 Red/Tan Coupe
90 White/Tan Coupe
90 Black/Grey Convert

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#534243 - 08/29/08 03:04 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: Richard S]
MauiWowee Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 1174
Loc: SW Ohio
On our cars you are powering up many things when the key is turned. Just a guess, but could some of those other components have a safeguard to protect them by shutting everything down? cool
_________________________
'91 Coupe Maui blue/blue/black
'94 Regal GS 53K

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#534245 - 08/29/08 03:20 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: steakneggs]
simplyconnected Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 700
Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan
I am confident that you can make the starter motor crank, but you don't really want to, until your EFI circuit is good. That's what they did at GM, they can't test the injector circuit until it actually fires. I believe, as soon as that portion energizes, your computer shuts the whole operation down.
Originally Posted By: steakneggs
...Maybe it has thrown a code. The FSM devotes an inch thick section to elec diagnosis. Steak
Steak is right about the codes. This isn't that difficult to fix, it's EFI; not your typical 1950's starting circuit. This one has full diagnostics and safeguards.

I am anxiously waiting to see the pics, Rich. Hopefully, someone will recognize the connectors and have proper schematics for you. - Dave Dare

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#534312 - 08/29/08 09:08 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: simplyconnected]
kennyw Offline
Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 701
Loc: maryland
must have misread? I thought your problem [was] to get the motor to turn over [so] you could see if the main computer was giving the injectors the signal to put gas into the cylinders. ken
_________________________
D.K. Watson Sr.

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#534362 - 08/30/08 05:35 AM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: kennyw]
steakneggs Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 327
I don't know if you can pull up the same info on a '90 that you can on a touch screen model, but on my '88 I can get detailed info like open and shorted individual curcuits. The engine does not have to be running. I can eliminate one injector at a time. I can get the impedance of the knock sensor! Hopefully I'll never have to use it. Steak

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#534390 - 08/30/08 11:27 AM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: steakneggs]
ekvh Online
Member

Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 129
Loc: The end of the earth, a little...
Way past the average mechanics' advice, and I am way less than the average mechanic, but I would check the battery connections and the grounds especially the ones on the front fender. I have had cars in the past where it was a bad connection and sometimes a break in the cable. You hook up fresh power and it connects enough to power up downstream, but when you turn to crank, the increased call for juice breaks the weak link area. Even dirty terminals on the battery can do this. I had a battery clamp that had a crack in it once that would do the same thing. I hope it's not as involved as the rest of the posts for your sake, but either way it sounds like ?fun?.
_________________________
Reatta- It's not a car, it's a disease.

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#534408 - 08/30/08 02:13 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: ekvh]
Richard S Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 887
Loc: San Diego, CA
Had a little thundershower here so waiting to do some of the tests suggested, particularly the cables. I will test for voltage and grounding with my meter at various ends of the cables and other grounds. These should probably be cleaned and brightened anyway, so I appreciate the reminders. Will go to the FSM and see how much information I can derive from the CRT. I am pretty sure the 90 puts out the same info as Steak's 88, just in a different place. I know I should have done this sooner, but it seems like reading codes and data is a new learning process every time I have to do it. The pics did not come out clear do I am deleting and will retake and repost.


Edited by Richard S (08/30/08 02:18 PM)
_________________________
Richard
90 Red/Tan Coupe
90 White/Tan Coupe
90 Black/Grey Convert

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#534445 - 08/30/08 09:10 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: Richard S]
Richard S Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 887
Loc: San Diego, CA
Here are the pictures. The female pigtail connector had to be wired into the old harness, which did not have a connector at all. The harness wires went directly to the injectors. I include the pictures of the top rail and healight pod to give an idea where the PO gave up and was ready to send the car to the crusher. The old fuel rail has some numbers on it. I will pull them off and post, but could not get a picture of them.


Attachments
headlightpod (600 x 450).jpg

Description: Left Headlight Pod Showing Damage and PO attempt at repair

newrailpigtail (600 x 394).jpg

Description: New Fuel Rail Pigtail [male at fuel rail/female at harness

oldfuelrail (600 x 542).jpg

Description: Old Fuel Rail [note different injectors]

newrail (600 x 479).jpg

Description: New Fuel Rail Installed

toprail (600 x 372).jpg

Description: Bent/damaged Top Rail


_________________________
Richard
90 Red/Tan Coupe
90 White/Tan Coupe
90 Black/Grey Convert

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#534474 - 08/30/08 11:37 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: Richard S]
simplyconnected Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 700
Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan
Thanks for the pics, Rich. Sometimes color compensates for lack of contrast. Please email #2, 3, & 4, uncompressed pictures to me at:
simplyconnected@aol.com

That's a very nice ty-rap job. I can't see what's inside. I notice the plug shows SEVEN pins; six hot, and one common ground. How did you match each pin to its respective injector? What splice method did you use?

Got six matching injectors?

Most injector sets have their own harness. It becomes easy to pull the rail by unplugging the electrics, then proceed with the fuel lines. Yours should work the same when you are done.

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#534535 - 08/31/08 12:23 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: simplyconnected]
Richard S Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 887
Loc: San Diego, CA
I took the new rail with the plug and the wiring as far into the harness as I could reach. This means I did not have to wire the rail. I only had to wire the female plug into my harness. The ground is common, so that part was simple. I labeled each wire on the new harness with a cylinder number, and determined which pin corresponded to a cylinder. I then labeled each wire on the old fuel rail with a cylinder number and followed that wire down to the harness. When I cut out the old rail, I then spliced and soldered each wire. If I did it right, the harness wire for each numbered cylinder should have corresponded to the same cylinder wire on the female plug. I have to admit that the soldering job was spotty and I may go back change the soldered connection to crimp splices on each one. Wish I knew what that motor came out of and had a wiring diagram for that part of the fuel rail. Suppose I could go back to the bone yard and find a similar motor. Maybe if I post on the general Buick forum for late 80s-early 90s 3.8 motors that did not use a plug on the fuel rail I might get some ideas. All the injectors on the new rail were the same, although the old rail worked fine except for the leak.
_________________________
Richard
90 Red/Tan Coupe
90 White/Tan Coupe
90 Black/Grey Convert

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#534638 - 08/31/08 11:11 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: Richard S]
Richard S Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 887
Loc: San Diego, CA
Gentlemen, start your egos. My hat, had I one, would be off to all those who responded. Dead on. It was a combination of a weak batt, bad cables, and a wire touching in the rewire of the fuel rail. I cleaned all, put in different batt, and she fired right up. Well, not exactly. She cranked beautifully and had fuel rail pressure, but would not fire. Why? Because I had forgotten to reconnect the fuel rail plug from when I took the pictures. After that she fired right up. It's racing at about 1600 rpm, but as between that and nothing, I am happy with that problem. Again, Nemo, Vince, Willy, both Daves, Maui, Kenny, Ronnie, Steak, Barney, Ek, Albert and Walt, thanks again for saving my bacon in the nick of time. I can now show the City inspector the car runs and moves when he comes out Tuesday confident he was going to be able to issue me a citation. I thank you all for his disappointment.
_________________________
Richard
90 Red/Tan Coupe
90 White/Tan Coupe
90 Black/Grey Convert

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#534641 - 08/31/08 11:37 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: Richard S]
steakneggs Offline
Member

Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 327
Glad you got it mobile. Can you get the motor # and find out what it's out of? Makes more sense than wandering around a boneyard. Steak

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#534661 - 09/01/08 02:45 AM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: steakneggs]
simplyconnected Offline
Member

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 700
Loc: Detroit (Royal Oak), Michigan
Good goin' Rich. I knew all along you would do it. Kudos, my friend. - Dave Dare

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#534726 - 09/01/08 12:07 PM Re: Jeez, not again. [Re: simplyconnected]
Vincent Vega Offline
Member

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: WI
The motor is not newer than an 88. That was the last year of the 3800 logo in the intake.
_________________________
1988 #828. Black/Tan 16 Way Suede
1988 #4636. Red/Tan
BCA # 42342
RDIV# 843
"The Great American Road Belongs to Buick"

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