Well...it's been a while since I've been on the site, and the Zephyr has been sitting for quite a while now becuase I was laid off in January, and all my plans for renovation were put on hold.

The battery died just after the dash lights and speedodometer stopped working. The car also seemed to loose a lot of power while driving, as if the alternator wasn't charging. I took it in to a local restorer asking him to check for shorts under the dash and make sure all of the electrical was working properly.

After paying $220 for diagnostics and a new 6-V battery, nothing seemed different. He said there was a short with the dash lights dimmer rheostat, and that would need to be replaced, and informed me I needed a new speedodometer cable, but he could find nothing else wrong.

So I drove her home thinking I just needed to order a few parts. Not only was the car still real sluggish driving home (had a hard time getting her up to 35-mph), but parked her out in the street for an hour, came back and she wouldn't start. I put a charger on it for an hour, but still no go.

I know I'm no mechanic, but could the alternator be causing this? I'm about ready to have it flatbedded back to the shop this afternoon, but wanted to see if I could get some feedback from some "experienced" Zephyr owners if this is something one of you have already had issues with (and maybe a solution?).

I'm soOOOoo behind the 8-ball as far as funds to restore my baby, and may end up having to sell her before I've gotten the chance to enjoy this beautifull car.

Any ideas or thoughts?

Steve

How much do you want for your dead Zephyr? (just kidding)

Owning a classic car means you will wrench. It's an old working machine, and not many mechanics (familiar with old machines) are still around. New cars are easy... go to Autozone and hook up the diagnostics plug to their reader. Or have the dealership do it for a hundred bucks.

It's difficult to troubleshoot from Royal Oak, Michigan, so I'll start with the basics. You said it was sluggish and wouldn't go 35mph. Does the engine rotate freely or does it seem to be siezing? (It's difficult, but you should be able to turn the crank pulleys by hand.) Are your SURE you have a good ground from your battery to your engine, and ANOTHER good ground from your battery to your car body? If you aren't sure all the connections are TIGHT, re-do them. My further suggestions depend on a properly grounded system.

This can be caused by a system that isn't charging (or a bad ground).

What does 'no go' mean? Did it crank? Was it frozen? Were any cylinders firing? I need much more info.

Do you really have an alternator, or a generator? I will assume it's a generator, but please correct me if I'm wrong!

Your problems are common but your mechanic doesn't understand 'old car' charging systems. There are no ground wires on your dash light switch, so I seriously doubt you could possibly have a shorted dash light dimmer. ('Shorted' in this case would mean, your dash lights would be full-on.)

You describe a starting problem and a charging problem. You may simply need to 'flash the field' on your regulator, to enable the generator to charge again. Some cars need this done every time the battery (or regulator) is disconnected. Again, mechanics haven't done this since alternators came with internal voltage regulators.

After charging your battery, your starter motor should crank the engine. By jumping the starter relay (the big lugs), if your starter motor cranks the engine, your key switch-to-starter relay circuit is open. If not, check your starter motor brushes.

Hope this helps. By the way, most of us became mechanics through necessity; we couldn't afford to pay someone else, and couldn't wait to get back on the road. - Dave Dare

Sluggish and speed of only 35 mph and hard starting sounds like one set of points or one condensosr is bad and engine is running on only one bank of cylinders. Start engine and short out a plug with a screw driver. If engine stumbles and misses, try to short a plug on the other bank. If no change in engine performance, you are not getting spark to one bank and have an ignition problem. Try a different mechanic.

simplyconnected:

First off, I'm not quite ready to admit defeat and sell my baby yet.

Yes, the "generator" was charging on the way home (at least the guage was way over on the "C" side). I've gone out and tightened all of the connections and have set the charger on her again.

When we tried starting her up after an hour of being parked, the starter turned, but was not able to crank the engine over. I had the charger hooked up to the battery for an hour and tried again after the charger showed the battery charged, and while still hooked up to the battery tried starting it agin, but would not turn the engine over (and the charger indicated the battery was dead again).

I was able to crank the pulleys without too much trouble, so don't think anything is frozen. My mechanic called me back and has ordered a new 6-V battery, which will be there tomorrow morning. I asked him about "flashing" the field on the regualtor, but he pointed out that the inside guage showed the battery taking a charge, and that should not be the problem in this particular case.

We'll see...

V12Bill:

I think you may have figured out the 2nd problem that may not be related to my battery problem. When I get the car into the shop tomorrow, we will try testing to see if I'm running on just one bank of cyclinders (that's exactly how I described the sluggishness to my wife when getting back from the shop yesterday). I'll keep my fingers crossed and let you guys know how this works out.

I want to thank you both for the very quick and knowledgable solution scenarios you've put forth. I guess that's why I really like this forum! You guys are GREAT!

Steve

Hey Steve, you're certainly welcome. In your original post, you didn't mention your car was charging. Rather, you said: I discounted battery problems because it is a brand new battery, and because you said, "nothing seemed different." That told me someone changed the battery, but did not flash the field. I assumed it was not charging.
I agree, and I wish I knew. Everything points to a bad battery, as far as 'starting.'

When you get the new battery, see if you can find out when it was made. I find, because they rarely sell 6-volt batteries, they may be sitting around for a very long time before you get one. Anyway, you may find that with a good battery, all of your problems may go away. Your coil won't produce spark very well if it has a weak voltage.

Also, have your mechanic check the voltage regulator to make sure it is not overcharging the battery. Overcharging will kill a new battery.

Just a note on purchase of a new 6 or 8 volt battery.
I buy mine from Tractor Supply as they are always fresh and show the date mgf. on the end of batt.
Also the price is right as they are for farm tractors that use the 6 or 8 volt and no rip off on cost.

Well...

...there were indeed two unrelated problems causing the symptoms I described.

1st. The battery was a bad one.. Put a new battery in and she started right up...no hesitations at all. First problem solved.

While running, we checked the spark for all 12 spark plugs and found them to all be in good working order. I earlier (at the mechanics recommendation) put some fuel stabilizer in the tank, since it hadn't been filled since January. So, the mechanic took off the air filter and started revving up the engine and spraying carburetor cleaner into it and revving the engine. It sounded like it was running on half the cyclinders as I reported before. He then stuck his hand down inside the carburetor and pulled out a 4" long x 1/4" thick black strip of foam from down deep in the carb. Then the engine "snapped" to life, and was able to hit rpms I never dreamed of.

We put the air cleaner back on and I drove it around the block a couple of times, and lo-and-behold...she's ALIVE again! Problem #2 solved (I think?). She was also showing on the electrical gauge that she was either charging or "0" (neutral) when driving it around. I let her sit for an hour, and started right back up again. Problem #1 definitely solved. (Oh baby...I'm so happy, especially since this didn't cost me any more money!)

So, I'm assuming the black foam strip came from either my air filter, got sucked in through my air filter (not sure how that could of happened?) or materialized out of thin air. But where ever it came from, once removed, she's like her old self again.

I still need to order a new speedomoeter cable, and since the dash lights still don't work, will probably need a new rheostadt/relay switch as well. Oh hell...I might as well order a new relay for the horns so I can finally hear what they sound like too!

I do thank all of you for jumping in with suggestions and ways to narrow down the problems based on the symptoms I described. You guys are the best.

Steve

Does this mean I can't have your Zephyr?

Unfortunately for me, (maybe good for you), yes you can!

See this new thread: Forced to sell: 1941 Licnoln Zephry 4-dr sedan

I didn't really mean it; I know how much you love your baby.