Sorry Vertigo the only time perception is real even to the person perceiving it, is if the person does not have the sense to say to himself "this can't be all there is".



I see no place where PAC assumes that everyone will like what they do, nor have I seen that attitude
displayed anywhere within PAC on any kind of global basis. I will admit that some individuals within PAC may give the idea of that, but isn't that like blasting the republican party because Richard Nixon was a crook. PAC and the local PAC region put on a show, period. The nationals are put on for the members and not for the benefit of any spectators, there is no admission paid to come and look at the cars, if there were then the comments have validity. If someone came at the last minute and observed not much would it not be more beneficial to go and ask one of the club members "is that all there is or am I missing something", than to immediately go on a verbal rant and rave about the perceived lack of whatever?



If that is what you would prefer to do then more power to you, There is nothing that says anyone HAS to stay at the host hotel. At the 100th year event in Warren, Ohio in 1999, I stayed at a hotel 12 miles outside of Warren because of the cost. I got that motel for $40 or so less and had money to spare. No National that I have ever been to has ever been at a roach motel. I did not attend this one so I can't answer as to its ammenties, but I will bet that the local chapter did the best they could. As to my wife she will stand with anyone and talk Packards, day, night, parking lot or at home. As for kids I threw them out of the house while they still knew everything there was to know, so I don't have that problem. I agree with not everyone has the amenities that everyone else has but that is still no reason to blast any event without knowing all of the facts. All I am trying to get accross is that before blasting out with a shotgun it is better to ask questions first and get the FACTS, then if the FACTs support the perception have at it and blast away, because if that had been done in the first place we would not be having this discussion.

I think all he was blasting was the host hotel, not the meet itself, and if you have others in your party that do not want to stand in the parking lot for hours on end, then there should be some nice amenities in the hotel.
If a club (or anything else for that matter) is perceived to be something it's not, then that entity better look at itself and find what it can do to change the perception others are getting... or, put its head in the sand and not worry about it.

I would suggest you re-read his thread. Comments like the other Packard club MUST be bigger and better managed, simply because he perceived a low turn out meet, I don't think so. There were, from the info that I received, a large number of Packards on the judging field and that does not include the cars that are on the field for display only, on the day BEFORE. By Friday, with the rain and all, people were on their way home. The meet as I understood was to continue on until the Saturday morning breakfast, but that may have been sparsely attended due to the weather. Again ask the question first before making disparaging comments on things that are not known to one at the time.

Go to Packardinfo.com and in the thread about the meet in the Genral forum there are pictures and one of them was a 58 Packard Hawk, a red one.

It seems to me that you are the one doing the ranting & raving.

1965V12P

Alk,

I posted to receive clarity on the event. I have no issues with PAC whatsoever. I freely admitted I enjoyed the cars that were there but was surprised that no high point shows cars, concours quality - were present.

I now know why - because I posted - someone came on and said they were off grounds specifically at the place I said would be perfect for them (Des Moines version of Meadowbrook Hall more or less)

I certainly don't want to give the impression that the meet was there 'for me'. But as I pointed out, it's nearly impossible to join every club one is interested in, and so this presented a rare opportunity to see these cars.

I may never see another Packard meet come to Des Moines in my lifetime. I may own a Packard in my future, and therefore would join the supporting clubs.

Alk, maybe you have an interest in another make like Buicks, and if you found out they were having their National meet in your town, you might stop in and visit. You too, would be allowed criticism.

I guarantee you after every Buick National Meet, there are critical posts on the BCA forum of this website. NOT to disparage the host city and chapter, but to fine tune the event for the future.

No comments, no improvement. having said that, if the PAC is happy with this level of event for the National, then who am I to care? that's fine. But I did not post to be critical for negative sake, only to get clarification.

And you are right, we had some bad weather and that was certainly part of the reason I saw a nice post war Victoria being loaded on Thursday evening.

Cheers Alk, thanks for the comments.

I attended the Packard meet in Des Moines. This was my first National Packard meet altho I belong to other car clubs.

One thing I thought was a huge problem was that living in Chicago, we kept seeing news broadcasts about Des Moines and other major cities in Iowa being flooded from rain and swelling rivers. They showed houses floating away on the news. Yet nowhere on the Packard website did it say anything about whether the meet was still on or cancelled. No emails were sent to those who registered informing them either. My friend just kept calling different people trying to find out if it was still on. I bet this contributed to a lot of people cancelling.

As for the host hotel, I have no desire to pay $90 a night or more. That adds up very fast over a week long trip. We stayed at a Motel 6 two blocks away for $50 a night, almost half the price, and it was fine. We stayed at the Holiday Inn parking lot every night talking and looking at cars. If people didn't want to do that, the Holiday Inn had a pool, execise room, computer, cafe, hospitality room, swap meet room, etc. I don't see what else you need to pay an additional $20 or more dollars a night for. Just because Packards are luxury cars does not mean all events should be held at ridiculously priced 4 star hotels. The Holiday Inn seemed fine. In fact, some people that lived down the street said that all kinds of car clubs hold events there, and they always come to look at the cars.

The swap meet was mainly 2 or 3 vendors with a few others sprinkled in. There was a lot of chrome for sale, but most of it seemed to be priced starting at higher Ebay auction amounts and went up from there. There seemed to be a lack of things like books, memorabilia, model Packards, brochures, etc. In other words, if you were not looking for chrome, there wasn't much to look at. I like to buy a car shirt when I go to events like this. It may sound ridiculous to some, but I usually pay $10-$15 for them. I thought $17 was pretty steep for a Packard t-shirt. I passed on it several times before I decided it was either buy it or go home with nothing.

I saw no problem with cars that showed up. I actually expected more low line 1951-1954's as that is what there is usually the most of, and was pleased to see more 56's, higher end, and bathtubs, than I expected. I was also impressed by the number of ambulances. Many of the prewar cars left their trailers for an hour or not at all. This was disappointing, but who could blame them with rain and hail all week.

Holding the main show on a Thursday also doesn't seem to be the best idea. People can't always take off work just for that. Most car events I go to are held on Saturday or local ones on Sunday.

While no one can control the weather, we actually showed up at Salisbury House at 9 and left at 11:30. The show was supposed to be until 3, but I had no desire to be eaten alive by mosquitos and get drenched, or stand in the cramped little lobby of the house just so an occassional spectator could look at cars. I'm sure plenty of others left after us.

One thing I thought was irritating at the banquet was that when awards were announced, they said things like "best C3, A4, G1, etc." How is anybody supposed to know what these categories are? Also it would be nice to have some club member involvement in voting for best prewar, postwar, best of show, people's choice awards, instead of everything just voted on by judges. I tend to have less interest when no one has any say except the few judges.

Aside from the weather, and my few complaints, it was a very nice event. Most people were very friendly, it seemed well organized, and I was not disappointed. I'm glad I went.

Linc400:

I understand your concerns. I will pass these on to PAC and see what can be done. I agree with you about the class titles being told instead of the cars that cover that class. Also I don't know if they did it at this event but I have been to some where they announce the winner by car number instead year, make, model.

Thanks.

After the Packard National in Des Moines, I confess I was caught quite off guard by Mr. Moran's sound disapproval of our cars, our turnout, our schedule, and our hotel. All based on a drive-by on Thursday afternoon, when many cars were (1) still at Salisbury House, (2) hiding from the storms over at the airport parking garage, (3) back in trailers, and (4) back home nearby. Maybe if I had known someone was going to count cars I could have arranged for all of them to be on the lot for you.

We have some nice daily drivers in this club, and some nice trailer queens, and some nice first-rate show cars, and some nice Packardbakers, and some nice trucks, and this year we attracted a Bayliff. Driven cars (nearly 100 of them) came from both coasts and visitors (nearly 300 of them) came from three countries. We drove all around Central Iowa and had some nice speakers, coach tours, inside shows, and a big indoor-outdoor swap meet. Everyone who came for the whole week seemed to have a great time.

Bet you wonder if it bothers me to have someone not involved in planning or helping, turn up on the AACA site to crank on the cars, the hotel, and everything else, without having spent the week to see what we were about. Matter of fact, it does.

As for the hotel you thought so little of, it's a 3-star job that consistently wins customer-satisfaction awards. It has unequaled meeting and comfort facilities, which is why Iowa Gas has been coming there for so long, and why I selected it in the first place. It also has the most helpful and competent staff I've ever had the pleasure to work with. And if the neighborhood is so seedy, you should probably tell the folks at the posh Wakonda golf club up the street.

And by the way, in addition to several sightseeing tour buses, we also scheduled shuttles all week for family members who preferred not to stand around a parking lot full of Packards. They went to the downtown Skywalk, the antiques malls, the Historical Building, and the Botanical Center. I think Vertigo may have missed them.

George Hamlin

George, as I mentioned to Alk, you are right and I am wrong. Thanks for clariying my wrong comments. I understand now I am wrong and should not have posted either positive or negative comments.

The hotel was an excellent venue after all, everyone enjoyed it. I am sorry I am not a member of PAC. Are you a member of several clubs? Just curious.