I was just waking up this morning and the news had a story that the Packard meet in Des Moines Iowa was NOT cancelled due to the weather.

Packard Meet? Does anybody know whena dn where. I'm not a member of any Packard orgaqnization but I would love to go see them as a spectator.

43rd Annual Packard Club National Meet
Ends Friday, June 27, 2008
Address: Airport Holiday Inn, 6111 Fleur Dr., Des Moines

Check out this thread over on PackardInfo.com

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1090&forum=4

I know exactly where that is, that is weird - ends on a Friday?? Typically meets run from Wednesday through Sunday.

It seems about 3-4 days ago I say a trailored Clipper coming in on my commuting four lane. Opposite direction. Obviously I thought he was going to a meet, but maybe more like an AACA meet.

Darn it.

We had really nasty weather come through today but it has been nice up to now (Thursday)

I decided to go over there after work. I saw about 30 cars total, if that. 85% post war. No show cars. There was one Packard 12. Has it come to this?

The meet was held at a lower quality Holiday Inn next to the airport (loud). The better hotel venues in greater Des Moines are on the west side of town. The Cadillac LaSalle Club had their Grand National at a nice Sheraton in West Des Moines, at the I35 I80 intersection. The grounds have some intermediate growth trees, nice flowers and shrubs, and inside the Sheraton is a 16 floor atrium, waterfall, beautiful.

By contrast this setting was downscale. Our south side is blue collar, several Packards were within 50 yards of the hotels smelly dumpsters and grease dumps, there was no landscaping.

This Packard meet was underwhelming, what I saw. Maybe, some were packing up. I am used to Buick National Meets, and to be fair, that obviously includes many more years of possible attendance. Nonetheless from 1920's through 1957, you would expect to see about 100 to 150 old Buicks, about 50 of those would be show cars, prepped to be winners.

And so what really struck me was the quality of the cars. These were nice drivers, not one baby show car. Having said all these negatives, I can say it was just a joy to be in amongst some Packards I have only read about and seen glossy magazine articles/pictures on.

There was a 53 Caribbean which I was able to look all around. There were two 56 Caribbeans, including one with a New Jersey plate on it - I thought that was maybe Kanters but I'm just guessing.

I was genuinely in love with the 41-46 Clippers. Again - who sees a Clipper outside of a Packard specific meet? These are classicly designed, period cars. Darrin did a great job and Packard, although Darrin said they messed it up - interpreted it pretty well.

The C pillar area where the beltline draws down into the trunk was very well done, much better then GM cars of the day.

There was an impressive 41 180 there, nice long wheelbase and great details especially in the interior. (But a stereo speaker deck in back)

I love the 55-56 Packards, so it was just fine to be among 2 2 door Executives, 2-3 400's, some neat convertibles. I was looking for eggcrate grille 48-50 convertible, but only saw one getting loaded on the trailer.

Inside, the set up was very underwhelming. I am used to nice big swap meet areas, hospitality rooms with members mulling around. If this was banquet night, then you could have heard a cricket (that must be tomorrow night I guess) I'm used to seeing the GM Heritage Collection Buicks inside. Obviously, Packard can't do that , but how about a featured Packard or two inside?

I am sure some friends got together and for the Packard Club members, any National is better then none at all. But has it come to this? The once great packard, relegated to a low turnout National meet?

I know there are two clubs. The other one, must be bigger and better managed. Finally, I know from a local Concours event held in the fall, that the old money in Des Moines has some classic CCCA full classic Packards, but they were no where to be seen. Frankly, who can blame them. Like I said, the back forty of an airport parking lot is no place for Classic Packards to be seen. The Salisbury House Concours is held on the grounds of a classic English Tudor Mansion.

Sorry, I have to say it like I see it.

No surpise to me. I will attempt to say this as nice as possible, but if you want to know the truth.......

I went to South Bend last year and found some pretty good deals on Packard parts. I will say though I was not received to well because I didn't have a "true" Packard. I had full intentions in giving the Packard Club one more try, but then I found out that there was a Studebaker meet in Minneapolis the same weekend. For as well as I was received from the Studebaker group in South Bend and for as friendly as they were, I opted to drive a few extra hours and am going to Minnesota.

Amazing that a 40 year old who loves Packards and Packardbakers can be treated so well by one group and snubbed by another in the same place, at the same time. If you want to draw interest in your marque, one might try being more receptive and welcoming.

BJM,

Thanks very much for the report, even though it's pretty depressing. Anyone else care to offer their thoughts/experiences?

There was a 57-58 Packard at the meet. I looked it over just as mucha s the others. For the same reason...when is the next time I will see one except on ebay? Probably never!

I can't speak to the personalities of those present. I was supposedly "not allowed" into the 2005 Cadillac Grand National, although my daughter and I walked right up.

Here there was not much effort to rope off spectators. Nobody talked to me.

I only went to one PAC National Meet and that was in Minneapolois in about 1992. I didn't own a Packard and wasn't registered for the meet although I was a PAC member. I just booked into the same host hotel and "hung out" in the parking lot for a two days. I met several people who were very friendly and one person even took me and my wife for a ride in his 1935 V-12. I have been a PAC member ever since. Sorry to hear about your experience. The snotty types who think Packard should have committed suicide in 1935 instead of bringing out the 120 or who walk past a whole line of 48-50 Models without so much as a glance are in the minority but they can ruin an otherwise great event if you let them get to you.

Dave,
Thanks for the comments. Mostly I was pointing out the small attendence, poor showing and shoddy grounds to hold a "National" type meet. Don't get me wrong, this would have been an accpetable regional or lesser meet, but a National?

Now, for comparison - do you remember how many cars attended the 92 meet, what the grounds and atmosphere were like? Because this seemed like morale was down, average age of membership I saw around was 60-65 years old. (But mostly I saw no one around) It just sort of seemed sad around there!

Just curious for comparison sake. If it was 30-35 cars in 1992 and the meet was held at a low end Holiday Inn, then I guess nothing has changed.

Bryan, I still have photos of the 92 meet if that was the year and there were a good many more than 35 cars. I would guess something closer to 75. The hotel was pretty upscale for someone like me on a game wardens salary but definitely not low end. Average age of participants was probably early to mid 50's so likely the same people showing up at this event. The parking lot seemed always busy with owners detailing cars and walking around talking Packards. I did not go to the judging area as it was not at the hotel but I stayed for the parade of cars as they went past standing beside Donald Peterson (West Peterson's uncle) of Classic Car magazine fame who was a real gentleman as was Dave Mitchell who took me under his wing to explain Packards to me and who gave me chance to drive his V-12. I really enjoyed it. I had planned on going down this year as it was reasonably close for me at about 600 miles. I would not have helped bring the mean age down though as I am now well past 60 myself.:-)

I'll have to start calling my dad "Uncle" from now on.

I was at South Bend and Detroit, and a few other nationals. The joint meet at South Bend was quite different than other PAC meets, I thought. The Studebaker people I spoke with (and that included the 57-8 owners), seemed a decent and friendly group. The atmosphere in a field at a fairgrounds was different. The Detroit judging day perhaps was more what the other poster was hoping for - mansion grounds, very classy. You may also like a CCCA meet. The BS sessions in the parking lot in Detroit were just car guys enjoying some time together. The swap meets tend to be small but well-focused - no crap (oh look, SBC valve covers, Mustang repros and a craft table) to wade through.

Now for my moment on the soapbox - if the South Bend meet was to explore building bridges, the Pierces, 57-8's , and Packards should have been located together. For that matter, I'm not a fan of having non-Judged cars parked in the second class parking as was done at Detroit.

57-58 "Packardbakers" I think will always be an awkward fit. They resemble Studebakers more than Packards, but that certaintly does not entitle belittling their owners! Save that for the rods - oops, did I say that?:)

Sorry West. It must have been fun playing on the rear carpet of the '41 division window limo .:-) I only met you father that one time but he left an impression as being a real gentleman.

There were about 80 cars registered for the show. Many of them fine show automobiles. The judging day was at the Salisbury house. The Packard Club is not the Buick Club or any other club. We are encouraged to drive our cars and several people including Dan Kanter and Ole Book drove from New Jersey. Another car was driven in from LA. I guess if the club found a hotel that was more expensive you might have registered for the meet and participated. The hotel was nice and affordably priced. There were plenty of parts to buy, but remember this was not a GM car meet where dozens of vendors sell the tons of spare parts that are available. It is amazing that you were able to discern how the PAC management runs the club from stopping by the hotel. The parking lot was huge and could have held several hundred cars and no one was forced to park next to the service area of the hotel unless they chose to. It is their cars and they parked where they chose to on the expansive lot. With the high price of gasoline, having a 5 star hotel to add to a trip bill would not have encouraged more people to attend. We all had a great time. It's too bad you did not register for the event and go on the tours, to 801 Grant for a reception, Salisbury house, enjoy the vintage fashion show, the museum downtown, the bridges of Madison county tour, the Amana Colonies and the other events that were great. A club cannot meet everyones expectations, so be it. Holding an event at a Holiday Inn so that it is affordable to encourage attendance I believe was a good choice. The hotel was nice inside and the hotel staff treated our convention great. A lot of the cars in attendance were not show cars. They were cars driven to the meet long distances by nice people who truly care about their Packard automobiles. These non-show cars and their drivers are the backbone of a lot of car clubs. I guess identifing an area of town as "blue collar" is your right but I was right at home as I am blue collar myself. I really am sorry you were disappointed with the event but it was NOT held for the benefet of non-registered users who did not support it financially. There is another national Packard oriented club that may be of interest to you since PAC did not meet your expectations.

Were there any 57 or 58 Packard cars or parts at this meet? if so, are there any pics of the cars? Would greatly appreciate seeing these cars. Thank you

I have been to a number of different club's national meets and they do vary a lot, sometimes depending on the direction of the national organization, sometimes on the region putting it on. There seems to be a feeling in some clubs that the members shouldn't just show up for one day at a meet. I don't understand that at all. I figure it is a really exclusive club that won't allow it's own members at it's events. They forget that the members pay dues year after year and only get what comes to their mailbox - which can vary in quality - and finance the activities of those who go to everything. Some members just can't go to entire weeks or even 3 day events due to family or work duties, or even the costs incurred even at a meet that isn't "high end". I don't know what kind of cars you like Bryan, but if you like classics, I hope you will try the CCCA, and hopefully become a member. When I was on the national board we made rules saying that any member of the club could attend any meet - you have to register to go on tours and things that have a cost associated with them of course - but if you want to go and see the cars and have fun, meet people and enjoy the comraderie, you are welcome. I have made some great friends in the car clubs, but enjoy the CCCA the most. You will definitely see Packard 12s there.

I have also really enjoyed some of the PAC national meets, even though I haven't been able to attend that many recently. All of my Packards are pre war, and most of the time when you go with pre war car you are in a definite minority, and you can feel a little out of place, so I don't think that is anything new. You might not see more than a couple of 12s at a meet on any given year. There are just a lot more post war cars around. There are a few collectors who have more prewar seniors in thier garage than you will see at a national meet, but if the organizers don't ask them to come, you won't see them there. There are usually some "show cars" at the meets, both pre and post war, and the competition can be fairly intense, with some cars always coming from long distances. I know that much having won best of show pre war a few years ago. I can't comment on this year's show as I was not able to go.

The most fun is that you get to meet some nice people - and if you are lucky, you meet someone like Dave Kenney, West Peterson, or Brian Kazmer, - and you will keep in touch, even just once in a while - over many years. That makes this hobby fun.

Thanks Dave, and Packard1,

Packards1, my comments were simply a real time snapshot of what I saw on a visit. I appreciate your insight into how the behind the scenes activities held up. I recall seeing the ladies dressing for the costume event. Everyone I did see, appeared to be having a good time. Thanks for confirming that 56 Caribbean was Kanters.

I know that Greater Des Moines is a great site for a National Meet, because I live here. Over the July 4th weekend, Goodguys, the hot rod organization, holds their midwest event here, and it draws 25,000 people, and our motels hold up.

Some of the places the Packard folks went are great sightseeing venues. I did not know that the Seniors were at Salisbury House, as I mentioned - and I am sure you noticed - that is an awesome location for a Concours or small meet.

Perhaps some of the local old money brought their Packards out.

To clarify, at age 44, I am not necessarily a pre war Packard nut. My interest is post war, and I was not disappointed at what I saw Thursday evening. You point out that the club encourages the cars be driven, as does BCA. To my point, I simply noticed that there wasn't a show car in the bunch, and that was a surprise. I was not trying to imply that was a bad thing.

With all the hotels in Des Moines, I will stand by my comment that the meet should have been held at a better facility. I am sure the staff was pleasant and friendly, nonetheless, a National Meet is no where to economize, it's a once a year "state fair" or convention and memories are made. The BCA gets a HOST hotel, usually a little pricey about $90 per night maybe, then other motels are nearby. The difference between the nicer venues and this Holiday Inn could not have been more then $20 per night, making the economizing aspect curious. Also, there are tons more restaurants and supporting infrastructure in other parts of Des Moines.

Dave - point well taken regarding some members not coming for all days. My last Buick National I went for 3 of 5 days.

Nationals are getting very difficult to even have, the BCA struggles each year to get a region to volunteer, and then the bids must be vetted. There is a not in my back yard mentality. The price of gas, the aging of the participants, and the age of Packards (as mentioned) mean maybe attendance was about expected - and as I mentioned - to a Packard member and nut, anything is better then nothing!

Packards1, thanks for adding perspective to my comments. I really enjoyed being able to check out those Packards as a non registered local. I hope you understand that I simply don't have the time and money to join so many clubs, I wish I could, so being allowed to check these cars out, some I may never see again, was a treat. Thank you to the club, and no one was arrogant, tried to move me out - I displayed long understood etiquette and "looked but did not touch".

I'm a Buick collector as a compromise - we have some similar parts difficulties trust me. I have come close to purchasing a coupl eof Packards, and at age 44, Packards may be in my future still. I recently gave away all my Packard books except Adler's coffee table book - and I think stewardship will become a big issue for Packard in the next 20 years - getting new generations to appreciate the cars.

I wish I wasn't so poor - but because I am - being able to attend the meet locally was priceless, I was able to extend my old car interest and understanding beyond the scope of my economics, if just for one night.

Dave,

The Packard 12 that was there I studied very closely. It was impressive. It was a long wheelbase model. A closed limo class sedan.

My thought was how the car was basically hand made on East Grande in Detroit in a factory still standing, though on life support - at some point it moved across those floors, assembled by craftsman and now here it was. Awesome!

I think it was a driver. Shame on me for not taking my digital camera, but this truly was spur-of-the moment. I told my wife I wanted to go at about 4pm in the afternoon. She said Go! you can get your chores down some other day.

Packards1, did you see that mid twenties open car with the side curtains? That was an impressive car as well.

One thing only touched on was the fact that the show is held someplace other than the host hotel, and the show is always on a Thursday. So, if you went to the host hotel late Thursday afternoon, many of the cars were already on the way home. The time to have gone was to the show at Salisbury House on Thursday morning or early afternoon.
The meet is scheduled through Saturday morning which includes a farewell breakfast, but many people leave Thursday afternoon when the show is finished.
I didn't get to Des Moins this year, but the meets I've been to in the past, that's how it's gone. As stated, it's hard to be gone for a week.
Maybe we'll all get rich one day and can go for the whole week.... take care, B

Is anyone able to post pics of the cars that were attending this show? Please.........

A few preliminaries are at packardinfo.

Here are some sample pictures from the PackardInfo site:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/uploads/newbb/6_4860cb8d8be16.jpg

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/uploads/newbb/6_486297670f492.jpg

BJM:

Do me a favor, define "SHOW CAR". To me any car in a car show is a Show Car. Now if you want to clarify that to include winner at a Car Show, that's a different kettle of fish. Also I understand from some of those present that the heavens opened up and there was torrential downpours in the area and that immediatly after the judging on Thursday
a lot of the cars were driven back and put into their trailers and headed home. No one is required to stay to satisfy some spur of the moment spectator that decides at the last minute to come and look. As to the venue, before I spend $90 a night at what you consider to be a nice hotel, I will bite the bullet and bring my motor home and spend the $90 a night for gas. As for the $20 difference in the price, for a 5 night stay at a PAC national, that is $100. I would rather spend that $100 on parts or other things to do in the area, that to spend it on some hotel chains idea of what it is worth to hang my hat for 8 hours a night to sleep. With the price of gas being what it is, you may be seeing a demise in National meets down the road. Now I will make you an offer that you will find hard to refuse. Before venting your spleen on PAC and its perceived(according to you) shortcomings, join the Hawkeye Packards region located in West Des Moines and I will provide the contact for you. Attend all the local functions that you can and all of the meetings. Do that, see how things are done and why and at the end of the year I will personally out of my own pocket re-imburse you the years dues. In order to make comments like yours you should have facts and you don't. All you have is perception, and assumption. Perception never equals reality, and I think we all know what ass-u-me does. Join up for a year and then come back and see if you feel the same way.

Perception is real to the person perceiving. He came, he saw, he didn't like. Granted, Bryan didn't see everything and he admitted it.
The assuming goes both ways. PAC will have to stop assuming that because they put in a lot of work to put on the show, that people on the other side of the fence will like it.
If I was staying for 5 nights, I'd much prefer to pay an extra $20 for a nicer place to stay, especially if I had my family with me. Maybe your wife and kids want to spend the whole day and evening standing around in the parking lot looking at bumpers and swapping stories, but I'd bet most people's families would rather not.
$100 is NOT going to buy very many parts, especially Packard parts. And not everyone has a Motorhome to fall back on.