And the people who do this for a living have no idea of any of these concepts, yet you do? Wow!

Actually except for VASTLY understating #3, as well as #4 and #5 to a somewhat lesser extent. Pulling #6 out of the air with no basis short of an implicit fear that can only be sourced from some other agenda. And wildly overstating #2 (based on the actual evidence of at least the last few thousand millenia), this almost makes sense. If you had actually been exposed to the evidence you're portending to summarize here, you'd know not to be offended by any of this. It's simply true.

Seriously if BP Oil, Dick Cheney, George Bush, and virtually all of Congress (Left & Right) have seen enough to take action (mainly at their own huge expense), how come you're so clairvoyant?

It ain't dogma when there's evidence. And just because you don't recognize the evidence doesn't mean it's not there. Sometimes you just have to let Columbo do his job to find out what's happening. (Hint--You don't get to be Columbo without working real hard at this.)


Then nobody did kill any jews in 1944? Seriously, on this topic you're at least that far out on the logic limb whether you know it or not.

I know it suits you to portray me as the one attacking individuals instead of concepts, but as always in past discussions you're not able or willing to distinguish the two.

I feel sorry for people inclined to "take it easy" on serious breaches of logic and comprehension, or on serious lapses of exposure to topics that are discussed with authority. It's good to be nice to people. It's bad to coddle the dangerous thoughts and actions that misinformation can lead to.

If we continue down the Primrose Path of believing that the whole world is wrong on Climate Change and "we" are not (and yes, the numbers are about that weighted against the Primrose Path at this point), we'll eventually see this hobby walk itself off a cliff in a very few years now.

As an environmentalist and a hobbiest, I would hate to see that happen. I'll not coddle those who think they can skip right along the Path like nothing's happening. It's only going to be worse for them later, and that means the rest of us too.

............Bob

You call it coddling illegitimate concepts proposed by a yutz...

I'm just asking for civility in here.

Being absolutely convinced that you are right is not a license to insult, slam, cut down or belittle.

The fact is, there are a lot of smart people in here with various experiences, training, education and common sense. Throwing rocks at people that don't drink whatever Kool-Aide you are pushing makes you look like a 60's radical still protesting the VietNam war.

In other words, your insults make you look bad and harms your position or view point rather than helps it.

I think some of the hot air from this thread is actually melting a glacier as we speak. For me, it's back to worrying my Buick's and one very lonely De Soto.

Gary

This whole thread is becoming highly amusing as I read through it! It's also somewhat interesting that certain ideas are alleged to have come from particular news outlets (with their own perceived agendas) rather than from deductive reasoning after reading several diverse commentaries and making up one's OWN mind on any subject.

Knowlege acquisition and the resulting orientations on various subjects should be an ONGOING situation rather than "cut and dried" after the first one. Also interesting . . . is that some desire to demonize or downplay the ideas and orientations of others just because they are different or might not be in accordance or agreement with their own (MANY like for others to agree with them as that allegedly gives credibility to their own ideas rather than it proving that "the followers" need somebody to follow), rather than embracing these diverse views and further considering them in the total knowlegde base in one's own mind. The day we stop learning should be the day we are deceased . . . but some seem to like to get a head start on the stopping learning situation without the "deceased" part.

As for the "climate change" situation, it hasn't been very many years since we were having heatwaves after heatwaves, with the resultant drier climates resulting in many fires in CA and other areas. Global warming, they claimed, with some Santa Ana Winds and El Nino thrown in for good measure. A few years later, things were more moderate and comfortable . . . then many rains in certain parts of the country as others were in droughts. Many short term cycles, it seems, which were somewhat dependent upon that old real estate slogan . . . "Location, Location, Location".

When it was hot, everybody thought that gave credibility to the whole global warming situation, but little was said about that when things went the other way. I guess when it snows on the Texas Gulf Coast again, we'll have pundits and other experts briefing us on the "Coming Ice Age"?

It's also interesting how the "experts" (in "modern-speak", "expert" has come to mean "somebody that knows more about something than the listener does" rather than "somebody who is in the upper 10%, or lower percentage, ranking in their field as to knowledge in that area" . . . remember the old "expert witnesses" on "Perry Mason"?) tend to move the conversation around with newer terminology. As I recall, the Santa Ana Winds led to "global warming", the cooler temperatures led to the current "carbon footprint" dialogues. Funny how that has changed with the times!

I believe that we're just here at the right time to know what global warming and ice cap issues are. How fortunate we are to see global history being made! A global history that some see the need to try to harness and control, if possible.

If WE are to have any effect upon this particular global warming cycle, then the WHOLE WORLD needs to buy into it, not just the USA and EU countries. As for trading carbon credits in Europe, I understand they are now wishing they hadn't even started that whole affair (other than for the fact that it had tended to make the USA look like it's dragging its feet in this area). IF the rest of the world had to implement pollution controls in their industrial entities, then it would not make those countries quite so inviting for foreign businesses to move production there. Without those outside investments, THOSE countries might fall in to a deep recession from the spikes in industrialization suddenly "de-spiking". Combine that with the price of crude oil continuing to rise and the shipping costs from those markets to the USA would rise enough to make production "off shore" less inviting if the USA consumers can't afford to buy them.

In ANY event, anything that happens now will take about 20 years to reach full affect. Just as the automobile industry is now having to make amends for decisions made in the 1980s (as to product, quality, marketing, etc. as they reallocated funds to rebuild Cadillac at Oldsmobile's expense, reallocated funds for emissions and safety areas at the expense of innovation, decided that downsizing and combining operations was the "way to go to save money" (in the assumption that they could sell MORE product with FEWER product choices and variations--sound familiar, even in the past year?). Just as we have many crowded roadways due to regional population growth, but to ease that situation will take at least 10 years for everything to make it happen to happen--nothing happens overnight even if we might want it to (other than some particular things which CAN happen in the shorter term . . . as in getting an empty fuel tank in our vehicle, full hybrid or otherwise).

But, as we wait for things to happen to change things, the fluid and dynamic situations at hand change and that brings on a whole 'nuther set of side issues which CAN change how the whole scenario might play out. Just as the Weather Service uses several computer models to predict the weather in a particular region or part of the world, sometimes the models don't all agree on what will happen, where or when, so the "forecaster group" makes their best judgment and prediction of which forecast computer model will work best for the particular situation and region. Ultimately, they don't know what's going to happen until a few hours before it happens, when they can see things up close and personal as to what's about to happen (or has already happened)--with all due respect.

In the modern world, we really have TOO MUCH information floating around from "sources" which are allegedly credible and "informed" when they are really "short-timers" in their chosen field, with all due respect . . . but when we see them on television, cable news, or on the large number of Internet Blogs, we can't see their lack of maturity or seasoning in the areas they are perceived to be knowlegeable in . . . except by watching what is said, how it's said, how it's referenced, and other signals that they really have the historical knowledge to be spreading "the truth" (as THEY see it) on the subjects they are discussing. Just because they have a highly talented person design their website graphics does not always mean the "owners" of that website really know what they are talking about OR that they are just replaying the words of those who THEY perceive to be "experts" as "the gospel". To see these things, it takes time and watching for signals from the regular posters about their orientations which can be traced back to their respective chronological ages. Yes, I have observed such things on several automotive-related "news sites", websites, and "groups" . . . be that as it may--my own experiences and observations which might or might not agree with what YOURS might be in this area.

The Internet is a great resource for information, just that you have to not take everything in "there" as gospel and always be cognizant that a poster might have a particular agenda they might be advocating and want others to follow them in that direction. Nothing wrong with that, everybody's entitled to their own thoughts and orientations, just that sometimes we get too caught-up in the rhetoric to not see the many side issues (even the itsy bitsy ones!) which can become significant as the particular scenario progresses, which can later have a more significant role in how things play out.

Thirty some years ago, wasn't there a song with the lyrics "The world, it's a changin' . . ."? Back when "Zero Population Growth" got really close to happening . . . at least for a little while? Back when the "Save the Planet" orientations were flying around, too? Heck, even long hair on "kids" is back in fashion!

Enjoy the coming car season as much as you can. The higher fuel costs will make "planning" and "targeting" events to attend a little more intense--some thought the $2.00/gallon gasoline was going to kill us, back then, but look where we're at now. Still, those who can afford to "play the game" will continue to do so as others retrench and try to save money and maintain their automotive investments as they need to be . . . enjoying them for what they are even as they are sitting in the sunshine in the driveway. IF we do things right, they'll be here after we're gone.

Enjoy!
NTX5467