My question is where do you get natural gas on a trip tooling down the highway? And from my dumb side, how do you put it in the truck? It isn't liquid is it, or is it? I'd burn coal for 63 cents a (hmmmmm - gallon?). My old Suburban 454 gets 7.3 mpg pulling the trailer. Now that's really awful, but on the other hand if a new vehicle costs lets say $30,000 and I trailer 2-3 times a year, how long would any savings take to recoup the $30,000?

I kept wondering why the cost of diesel fuel went so high. I think I got it figured out. My diesel truck gets 25% better milage than my gasser did. So the oil companies raised the price of diesel till it is 25% more than gasoline thus insuring that EVERYONE is getting bent over.

Windjammer; Interesting is my x-wifes name is Dana. Tough when the mail comes. Must be why she left me. About natural gas, you can fill right at some stations. Queststar owns the gas pumps. they supply all our natural gas for home heating. The State has a .50 cent rebate on gas taken right at the pump. Thus 63 cents. I just bought this truck from a gentleman who does the conversions. I have only driven it a few miles but seems to run fine. Gallon for gallon should be about the same mileage. So $4.00 compared to .63 I consider a no brainer. On the down side the tanks are very large and take up most of the bed. I'll sacrifice. Another down side is you lose about 15% H.P. That's why we converted the Dodge Hemi (345h.p.). Still seem to have plenty of go. You can also switch back to gas if you need to. There is also a State and Federal Tax Credit to help offset the conversion cost. I hope this proves to help my fuel bill cause I drive a lot.

Sounds like a win-win situation, I have some customers with fac. flex fuel,but its to new to make a fair decision.

Sorry if I sound argurementive Dave I dont meen to. I dont think anyone believes yesteryears cars are better than todays, but I do believe they where built better with pride and in America. You and I could work on and fix them,late 70s we puled the trouble codes with a paper clip or the a/c buttons on Caddys,get em with the key switch on Chrys. Today you get a ses lite on the dash the local shop gets a half hr. labor chg. to plug in a $2000 scan tool and that only tells you where to start looking for the culprit.Lean over a fender today and your apt to dent it . Bob I would say welcome,but after reading some of your post I think your alread a member of my (IM TIRED OF BEING SCREWED ) club. Years ago we had sloted screws,then some (be careful Richard) person talked the auto ind. in to a cross slot screw called it philips and sold a few million new drivers. Next we went to posi-drive and my tool box got bigger. That wasnt enough, now we have torx drive umpteen diff. sizes and most of your new stuf has gone crazy. oops, I ment metric. Snap-on guy been by lately??$140 for a set of screw drivers !!!! Bah humbug. Dick

Here in PA for a gallon of diesel fuel we pay 63.6 cents in state and federal taxes.
A gallon of gasoline is taxed at 50.7 cents. So, thanks to taxes, diesel is 12.9 cents per gallon more just due to taxes.

http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/GAS_TAX_MAP_JANUARY_2008-2.pdf

http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/DIESEL_TAX_MAP_JANUARY_2008.pdf

The following is another interesting web site that has information about the cost components of gasoline and diesel and other interesting information.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

Interesting information on this web site about what petroleum products are made from a 42 gallon barrel of crude oil and in what quantities.
If the various automakers follow thru with their plans to offer more vehicles with diesel engines one has to wonder how refineries will increase production of diesel fuel. Chances are, they may not be able to so. With increased demand and supply that cannot grow prices have only one direction to go.
Not a pretty picture for diesel owners. Hopefully that will not happen.

DanaJ, with a NG vehicle is there more or less concern when it comes to a traffic accident?
What about a leak in the system when the vehicle is inside a garage at home or parking structure?
Also have to wonder about driving a vehicle like yours through tunnels which have restrictions regarding flammable/explosive materials.
I am sure you probably looked into all these issues before purchasing your vehicle. Would be interesting to see what you found out.

Charlier,

There should not be any major problems with the liquid propane or natural gas. Every RV on the road is carrying LPG tanks. The tanks are designed for that use and to be safe, often with protective cages built around them when they are installed to power a car.

This discussion does, however remind me of the following...

We had a Flex Fuel Natural Gas/Gasoline powered 1984 (I think) Ford LTDII Police Car here. I suppose they have had time to perfect the technology, but that car was junk. It drove when it wanted to and stopped when it wanted to. It would often coast to a stop and you either had to wait for a wrecker or keep trying to start it and after a while it might start up and you could drive until it decided to stop again. After we got rid of that car, we did not get another Natural Gas powered vehicle.

Just came home after a drive and the truck ran quite well. Plenty of get up and go. I do think it may be running a bit lean (rough idle). Have put on about 100 miles at a cost of about 5 bucks. NOT BAD. As to the containers they are in the bed and bolted to the frame. They have safety shut offs in case of accident. All the fuel lines are stainless. I believe these will work well. Cruised freeway at 75 with ease.

The proccessing of the crude oil input stream in refining mentioned in the text ("...changing the molecular structure of the input with chemical reactions, some through variations in heat and pressure, some in the presence of a catalyst...") refers to a process whereby the oil companies, due to demand, fractionate as much of the crude as possible into lighter products like (and mainly) gasoline. Should demand for diesel mandate a change in operation in favor of it's production, I'm sure that (to an extent) that can be accommodated.

Also the big push in diesel is for biofuels. Biodiesel is a more efficiently recovered biofuel than ethanol, and as production of it ramps up that will also help with diesel demand. None of that is going to signifcantly impact the comming oil shortage, however, and I wouldn't expect price increases to slow down at all until demand is drastically impacted. The dwindling supply of the raw material will be the main story. Relative generation rates of different fuels from oil are only the ripples in the stream.

As for the impact on us (the original point of this thread), I don't think we'll be seeing too many more SUVs used as family cars getting 15-20,000 miles/yr. any more. However occasional use where 1000-2000 miles of driving are concerned will not be as severely impacted. People may be attuned to renting tow vehicles rather than trying to feed them year round as most have been, but most people who can afford antique cars will still be able to afford to transport them occasionally.

A more to the point question is, however, enlisting help for my current dilemma. My 99 Suburban 2500 has 99,500 miles on it and it's 454 ci Chevy/GMC engine. I get 7.3 mpg pulling a 3700 lb car now. It's literature says it will pull 10,000 pounds. Of course the brakes were never much good on this vehicle, and won't get any better either. I plan to pull a box trailer weighing 3740 lbs with a 4269 lb car in it. I can't find any new truck with an gas engine big enough to pull that load. I do not want a Diesel. Ford seems the best with 8300 pounds pull on a King Ranch F-150 w/trailer package, but will an F-150 handle the load, and is 8050 too close to maxim weight? After all, that's an empty gas tank in the car, no floor jack or other tools in the trailer. A Dodge Hemi definitely won't pull the load, nor a Chevy 5.?. Therefore, am I better off to just keep the Suburban for my 2-5,000 miles of car shows and tours?

Hope Im not jumping the gun,Local news station says usage has dropped due to car pooling and a decrese in unnessary travel and price may actualy start to decline. For once I hope to heck the station is right. Local filling stations havent gouged any more in the past week.

A good sign!!

I bought 22.6 gallons at the local pump and puke at 3:00 on friday for $3.319 per gallon.

Went back out at 5:00 past the same station and the price was $3.290 per gallon.

I was pretty upset, but just finished the fill-up for another 13.09 gallons at $3.299.

Probably when I go out later it will be another 2 cents cheaper.

I think they have a monitor on when I buy gas.

Wait an hour after Boettger buys and lower the price!

First you can afford it, second local stop & rob on court st, is down to $3.27.9 Happy motoring.

Steve, I forgot to ask, what day are you planing to head for Cumberland???

Dick,
Friday Morning!
Off to Cumberland!