This Won't work with this type balancer, since the outer part of the balancer is supposed to spin some on the inner part of it, so it won't take long for a mark on the outer edge to be in the Wrong place. And since the inner part is very close and hidden by the radiator you can't see a mark there. The inner and outer parts of the balancer have a clutch type material, that it spins on, between them.

Since I didn't find a post from Owen about this, I suppose you are refering to my post. If so, I'm glad someone agrees with me, since I know all my '29 distributors can be put in Both ways. I just checked my spare '29 engine to make sure. I don't remember about the '37, it may be Nonsymetrical, but I'm not gonna pull it to find out.

I just had a thought, Could it be that your lower shaft (the one inside block) is Bent slightly, causing it to appear to have and a nonsymetrical slot in it ???

Rick,

It is possible that it is bent. I have not had time to go check it again. It did not look bent, but I did not do any measurements.

I will hopefully get out to the garage this afternoon. I will pull the distributor and get some photos and measurements.

Tom

So Speedster, to confirm what you are saying, does my 32 has the same type of balancer.

If it does then I suppose whoever putthe timing mark on there originally wasn't aware of how the balancer worked.

I've seen one that I was told was from a '31 and it was the same as '29s, so I assume the '32s would be the same. There again, the '37 balancer is Not made the same, so not sure when that changed? Of course many design changes were made in '37, in engine and chassis, so logicly that's probably when that changed also.
To test it you can use a Timing-light and if it's the spinning type the mark will be jumping all over the place as you increase and decrease RPM.

G'day all, I am certain that the Harmonic balancer does not spin within itself, I understand that it resonates within itself to damp out oscillations in the engine dynamics, but the basic integral construction of the balancer does not change. The harmonic balancer is no different to a 1956 Packard. If you put a mark on it, it will still provide a basis for using a timing light etc. The pointer and mark are clearly visible with a powered timing light and in no way hidden. i shall try to dig up my photo's. best regards Peter Toet

Sorry, But I am Certain you are Wrong!
It's not the same as the balancer on '56. I've overhauled Both types.

I have not overhauled both types so I have to say that I may be wrong in my advice. I am however unaware how a harmonic balancer can work if it can permanently move within itself. I was of the understanding that a harmonic balancer was set in rubber to allow oscillations to be generated counter to the motor harmonics. I am not afraid to be wrong. The thread on the timing of a 30 Packard was by Scott 726 on December 2007. I have used the timing wire and mark on all of my packards and they appear to work well. I obviously have to look at design more closely. Do you have any Packard writings on the functions of the early harmonic balancers? best regards peter Toet

I mainly know from experience, since I tried to do the same thing on my first Packard which was a 626. I saw that the mark I made was jumping back and forth, using light, and since it was running great I knew there had to be something different about it, from later models, Or there was something wrong with it. Later I took the balancer apart and found the friction material disks between the inner and outer parts. Even tho the parts are a very close fit they are not bonded together with the rubber between them, like later balancers are. It's important to have the correct torque on bolts holding them together, so the correct pressure will be applied to the slip-clutch. I do have a torque spec on that somewhere, if I can find it (probably in the service manual).
I've never seen any printed data on the internals of that type balancer, and would have not known about it if I hadn't taken one apart.
Recently I did the same to the balancer on my 645, and it was made the same way.
Actually the spinning balancer is a very Good design, for dampening out the torque-pulses, since there's no bond to brake loose with age and it seems to do the job very well, Just can't keep an Accurate timing mark on it.

If the timing marks on your harmonic balancer are moving then the rubber in your balancer has become unvulcanized from the outer plates. When installed the balancer consists of two heavy plates with internal friction discs and a rubber center, the whole being vulcanized together. The plates definitely will not rotate independently. Steele rubber offers a revulcanization service for Packards 1931-39. They claim timing calibrations will remain intact. We've had half a dozen or so redone over the years.

'29 balancers were never vulcanized together. Why would it need friction disks, if it was not gonna spin ?
You guys can believe what you want, I know I'm Correct.

Packard part # 195918 Motor Vibration Damper Assembly, correct for 726-33, 740-45, 826-33, 840-45, 901-02, 903-04. My books do not go further back.

This is an interesting thread with interesting and conflicting experience.

My question is why would Packard put iming indicator on the flywheel where it is so much easier to see than on the dampener.

I plan to research this a bit more awith our Packard club members.

That's exactly why the dampner is not intended to set your timing.The dampner moves back and forth, when new a bit when worn a lot
TDC can and will be found on vibration dampers,when the engine is not running, the TDC mark will be more or less acurate, when the dampner is fully functional that is, but they are certainly not intended to set your timing, with the engine running. The flywheel mark is the only thing to go by,
Johan

Because it Won't work on the dampener.
If a mark on the balancer is Not moving, then someone has modified the balancer (vulcanized it when they shouldn't have) or the bolts that clamp the parts together have been torqued down too tight. Either would Not let the dampener operate as it should, since it's the movement of the outer part that cancels out the shock-pulses.

Dang it, How many of you guys, that have an opinion on this, have actually taken a '29 or '30 Balancer Apart ??? I'm guessing 'None of you'.
TDC is Not marked on these Balancers.
And no one has explained Why these balancers have a Friction-clutch-disk in them, if they are not supposed to spin on that disk surface ???

The harmonic balancer plates move back and forth a bit as mentioned above but should always return to "center" if properly asembled and vulcanized as original. The inner and outer discs do not rotate independently. Marks on the flywheel would be more accurate in the long run, that much is true. I do not have a part # for the 6th series dampner assembly but the 626-645 Service manual calls out many of the same part #s as the '31-'39 for friction discs, springs, etc. I suspect Steele Rubber has revulcanized several thousand of these by now.

Can one time by ear if you didn't want to pull starter?

Not to belabor the point but the ASE Standards of Adjustment sheet for '31-'32 Packards clearly illustrates Ignition timing set by use of gradation marks on vibration dampner. "Contacts to open 9 degrees before TDC of #1 cylinder, which is 9 graduations on front vibration dampner". I could go out back and photo a '32 dampner with its associated markings and pointer but it's cold out there!

As I said before, you are talking about a Later design, not the one used in '30, which is what this tread is supposed to be about.

Yes, there's a Large range of adjustment with dash Pull-rod also.

Of course you can time by ear, and quite accurately, and the nice thing about it is that it compensates for changes in compression ratio (like from resurfacing the head) and gasoline. Put in gasoline of the grade you intend to use, and adjust the timing until you just hear a hint of preignition or "ping" on a sharp acceleration in high gear.

Owen,

That is what I am talking about. I remember when I worked for my stepfather when we would set the timing per the book and still pinging we would resort to the good old ear

I have a question for you, (anyone with '31 and '32 experience). Are there 4 bolts that hold the balancer together (I think they are 5/16" diameter bolts), in those year models balancer? (Not counting the large center bolt that attaches it to crankshaft)
If so, then they should be the slip type balancer, if not then they should be the later vulcanized type.
By removing those 4 bolts, it's easy to disassemble the slip type balancer.

Parts book calls for 6 bolts (actually screws) on everything 826 and newer. Doesn't list them for 7th series.