Dear All,

I am putting things back together on my 733, and now need to set the timing. I have two questions:

1) In the attached photo you will see the timing indicator and flywheel viewed through the starter port. In the photo, you will see three marks. From left to right, U.P.D.C. #1 with a tick below the C, SPARK #1 with a tick above the R, and an upward directed tick about two letters width past SPARK #1. Which of the latter two tick marks is the correct timing mark to align the pointer?

2) How do I tell if cylinder #1 is on the compression or exhaust stroke?

Thanks,

Tom

As far as I know there's No easy way to tell, with these (L) head engines, if you Didn't record how everything was positioned when you took it apart or it's been cranked since then.
The way I do it is: with the flywheel pointer at Spark#1, I line the dist. rotor with plug-wire #1 contact, and try to start it. If it doesn't start and backfires thru the carb, I lift the dist and rotate the rotor 180.deg and try it again.
I know it's not Scientific, but it works.
If you have the valve-cover off, you can watch the #1 valves (both valves all the way down) and put a long large diameter rod down thru the spark-plug hole, to determine the top of the compression-stroke, but that's too complicated for me.
(The rod, dowel or tubing needs to large enough to fit the plug hole so it can't fall over and cause damage as the valves come up, and don't use something like a screwdriver, for that same reason. A wood dowel works great, if you have one the correct diameter.)

2) How do I tell if cylinder #1 is on the compression or exhaust stroke?

There are a few options depending on how much disassembly has occurred. If you have not removed, or drastically adjusted the distributor, simply note the position of #1 plug wire, remove the distributor cap and rotate the engine until the rotor comes around to #1 position. as it comes near, look down at your timing window and watch for the marks to appear.

If you have removed the distributor, and not noted positions, the finger over the spark plug hole trick is great. As you feel pressure, watch the timing window for the marks to appear.

Failing all else, pull the front valve cover, note which front two valves is intake and exhaust. Rotate engine in normal direction of rotation, the exhaust valve will open and close, followed by the intake valve. As the intake valve is just closing watch the timing window as the marks appear.

Good Luck!

I see what you mean about the oil sludge behind the flywheel. The tranny definitly needs to be droped to check the clutch for sludge.

I am assuming folks agree that the pointer is lined up with the right mark in the photo?

OK, I think I will be going with Rick's option of rotating the distributor.

I am also going with mark number 2 as the timing mark.

I have put everything back together, am getting good spark at the 'right time', but no firing. So, I would say that I did not determine the compression stroke properly (by sticking my pink in the plug hole and feeling for valves.

I agree about the tranny. I will drop it 'soon'. Already dropped the oil pan (wee hoo, that was messy).

Thanks tons for the help.

Cheers,

Tom

I think the pointer is at the correct timing mark, in the picture. That's the one I used, and it worked out Okay.

Thank you all for the help. I got her running. And, I got her timed.

One interesting bit, however. It turns out on this car that the rotor will only seat on the drive in one position. So, for example, if #1 cylinder is at TDC, the only way to get the distributor on is for the rotor to be at the #1 position. It won't seat if rotated 180 degrees. From looking at the rotor, it would appear the vanes of the shaft are not centered with respect to the rotor shaft. Anybody else seen this?

I have another question, but I am going to do some searching before pestering .

Again, thanks tons for your help over the last few weeks. It sure was nice to here the old car jump to life again. And, no issue with it losing power upon warming up!

Cheers,

Tom

Tom,

Here are copies from my owners manual on spark advance and spark setting. Hope these help...

Not sure why one is an attachment the other one displays here. Sorry for poor quality best I can do with the scanner I have.

Tom,

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,

Tom

Quote "It won't seat if rotated 180 degrees."

Yes, I think all the 39 and earlier big 8’s ran an a-symmetrical slot style drive. I found this out when I had my distributor rebuilt and the re-builder put the drive back on the drive shaft, but indexed it 180 degrees out. It was simple enough, just drive the roll pin back out and re-index 180 degrees and drive the roll pin back in.

To rotate the rotor 180.deg, the complete distributor has to be lifted (dist base separated from head), then the rotor (and shaft the rotor sits on) are rotated.
Glad to hear you got it Runnin'.

Rick is right you need to pull it all the way out. Been there done that. I will install it the correct way once I reassemble the engine.

Oh, I guess I was wrong about the distributor not dropping in if it is 180 degrees out. My distributor in my 39 320 has an offset slot drive at the bottom of the distributor. If you try to put it in other than in alignment with the slots aligned, it will stand about ¼ inch above the head. The earlier cars must be different. Sorry for the confusion.

FYI I reduced the size of the one file I attach above so we don't have to pan back and forth to read this thread.

Now to figure out why one is an attachment and the other got imbedded?

Say Super8 this is what we are talking about we all can learn from each other on how our beloved Packard’s go together

I didn't note that anyone actually answered your question. With the manual control fully advanced, the spark should occur 29/32 inch at the flywheel rim before upper dead center. Thus, make your own mark from the indicated mark.

OK, on my 733, if the rotor is currently pointing towards distributor contact # 1, and I remove distributor completely, rotate rotor 180 and reinsert distributor, I can not get the rotor shaft to mesh with the drive in the head. It will with the rotor set for cylinder one firing. It sounds like the 39 is the same? If I need to pull the distributor again, I will photograph the offset flanges at the bottom of the rotor shaft.

Tom

Tom,

That would great if you can. If I remember tonight I will shot some pictures of mine for you all.

I'm doing this from memory, but the bottom of the ditributor shaft on my 32 is offset so it will only insert one way. However the other end of the shaft where it enteres the distributor body the shaft is rectangular. I believe there are two ways that the dstributor body can be inserted into this square shaft and still line up with the triangular base on the head.

Very strange ???, All 4 distributors I have are symetrical at the keyed drive, on bottom end, and will fit in both ways. I know 2 of of them are from '29 engines, but not sure what the other 2 came from but they are all identical on the bottom end. I sure wish mine were Not, it would have saved a lot of time, when I was determining which way to put them in.

I agree that it make the decision about which way to put in the distributor quite easy. I am wondering if the shaft keys/wings have become bent from use and this is why it only fits one way now. I have not been able to get a photo of my shaft yet, but will post it when I do.

OK, that sounds kinda gross. I promise to keep all photos family friendly.

Tom

Tom,

I read nothing gross there

Pictures of my 1931 Distributor Shaft. As you can see bottom half is squared.

Hi Tom,

No, your distributor drive slot and tab are not bent; they are intentionally offset 1/16th of an inch in order to allow quick, easy installation. The separate driveshaft assembly that drops through the head has a square drive that is A-symmetrical (offset) from the slot that engages the distributor drive. if the drive shaft is removed from the engine, to the best of my knowledge, you absolutely have to find top dead center compression (TDCC), mate the shaft to the distributor out of the engine, point the rotor to #1 put a reference mark on the shaft to note where the slot needs to be, then install the shaft. If the square of the shaft will not drop in with the slot referenced to your distributor in the right position, and you are definitely on TDCC, then I would check the drive on the distributor. As I indicated on my other post, this drive can be installed 180 degrees out. I hope I am not providing misinformation, I am totally new to Pre-war Packards, and am by no means anyway near as knowledgeable as many of the folks on this site.

Best regards

The other thing I did was mark the dampener with a mark on the timing chain cover on the front of the engine at TDC. Another mark already was on the dampener which is surmise where the timing should be set. Not sure why Packard made it difficult to set timing.

G'day all, I would suggest that the #1 timing mark be marked on the harmonic balancer with white-out or white paint. A wire pointer should be attached to one of the timing case bolts. This will enable you to use a timing light and avoid having to pull the starter to check on timing. You shoud be able to advance the timing a few degrees as today's unleaded is 91 octane compared to around 65 in the late Nineteen Twenties. I included details and a photo on this method in a similar thread about 3-6 months ago. Glad that you have the car running. Owen Dyneto is spot on about lifting the dizzy, raising and rotating the distributor drive 180 degrees to correct a 180 out of phase dizzy. Best regards Peter Toet

Went out to look at my distributor shaft again. I see the flats of the square drive are offset to the distributor drive flat, but the points of the square drive are in line with the flat. I had a feeling that the resident experts could shed more light on this.