Anybody ever had an experience like this?

Early in 2007 I bought a 1961 Olds Ninety Eight convertible project. The car is somewhat operable & looks halfway decent if you don't know what you're looking at. The reality of the car is that it needs a lot of work: mechanically it's quite tired, the color's wrong, the paint's bad, the interior's wrong, nothing works on the car... get the picture?

I think I paid a fair price for the car. It had been on Ebay with a Buy it Now of around $13K with no takers, so I got it for somewhat less. In IL, the sales tax on a car over 11 years old & costing under $15K is $25. This is what I paid in tax when I titled the car in my name.

Regardless of age, if the car sells for $15K or more, a tiered sales tax kicks in, going from $750 for a $15K car all the way up to $1500 for one costing $30K or more.

Today I received a certified letter from the Illinois Dept. of Revenue with a bill for in excess of $1600 in extra sales tax, interest, & penalties on this car. Apparently, regardless of what I paid for the car, some flunky in Springfield has decided that my 47 year-old restoration project is worth in excess of $30K & I need to fork over all that extra sales tax.

Bear in mind that nobody from the state ever laid eyes on this car. For all they know it's in boxes.

I had this happen once before, but it was with a much more expensive car that arguably was worth the value the state was assessing it at. At that time, they were only after a few hundred dollars. I was astounded when my attorney told me that what they were doing was perfectly legal. Furthermore, he said that by the time I paid the cost to fight the state I'd probably come out ahead just paying the tax bill.

I'll be talking with my attorney tomorrow. I'm much more inclined to try to fight this time- it's a lot more money. Either way, it's probably going to cost me a bundle, but I'd rather give $1600 to my lawyer & an appraiser than to the damn corrupt State of IL.

What say you, SEMA people???

Chuck

I'm not a SEMA person, but I would have a qualified appraiser appraise the car for you. I would send them a copy of the appraisal along with a letter from your attorney explaining what you paid for the car, explaining the condition of the car and inviting them to come look at the car in person to confirm that the value is not what they have apparently decided that it should be.

I would recommend IVAN appraisals.

http://www.i-van.org/

(Of course I would also recommend that you move to NC, where you pay an extra $10 each year for your antique vehicle license plate, and then the vehicle is only taxed at a maximum tax value of $500.)

NY does the same thing, They can dispute the value of any car and bill the added tax.

Wow I am sure glad I registered my car back in '96 when I inherited it.

nj does the same thing with every car. if they can find the car on nada listings they are happy to send along a tax bill because they need the money. i use junkers because i work down the docks [ salt water ] they want tax money from the last truck i bought. its no use trying to talk to them.

I agree an appraisal of the vehicle would ayt least provide a legal document as to the value of the car. Usually they use the Kelly BB if they dont have anything else to go by....too bad you arent in MASS- I do appraisals.

If you don't want to move to NC you can move to SC. Our tax is 5% up to $6000 cost and at that point it tops out at $300 no matter what you pay for the car. You can pay a million dollars for a car and the sales tax is still $300. And property tax is fixed on cars 25 years old also. Its less than $20 per year.

You need to move.

Don't pay it. This is a revenue fishing expedition by the wonderful state of ILL. You have a legitimate bill of sale and that's what determines the tax which you already paid. This topic has come up recently on other forums.

Sometimes it is better to handle this without a letter from your attorney, as the state may think you are hiding something (my attorney told me to do this when receiving such letters from out of state). You can always get the attorney involved later. Write a return letter, stating the price that you paid for the car with documention of the cost and enclose a photo or two (non-flattering pictures). Mention in your letter that since the cost and true value are far less than the threshold, you will not be sending in any money. Then see what they say. You will probably never hear from them again, as this is what Bob Olds calls a "fishing expedition".

If you do hear from them again, then go to your attorney, get an appraisal and defend yourself vigorously. The market is soft now, so a low appraisal should be appropriate. Good luck.

Fred

Ask them to agree to the value of the car by an independent appraiser BEFORE you have the appraisal done. If it would help, ask THEM to recommend an appraiser!

That way, if they come back and claim the appraisal is too low, you already have them agreeing in writing to an independent appraisal first. And, of course, send photos!

Also, one of the tricks I use to document the date of the photo is to put a major daily newspaper on the windshield of the car when taking the photo. If they claim your photo is 6 years old, just show them the headline.

You know, a headline everyone will recognize, like "Obama changes policy on Iraq" should be memorable!

I once registered a beater with a reciept that said 2 cents on it and never got a challenge, and plenty of others with reciepts under $500 (often the actual price I paid). Have never heard of NY disputing the value of a car. I'm sure if you tried to say you paid scrap price for a brand new car, you might get nailed, but not on an old car with regular plates.

This is Illinois - land of infamous politicians (we are famous for them, be they senators or governors - who we sometimes even put in jail, but not often enough) don't be fooled by the speeches - they are looking for every dollar they can squeeze anywhere to fund the machine and they won't be stopped. If you think you can fight this easily you are wrong - they will take your license and money as just a start and they have that power given by the legislature. They have your bank account number too, don't forget. Your attorney is right, pay it with a smile and don't ever look back, you will lose money besides paying the tax and your heart rate will go up and you won't even enjoy your car anymore. Just wait until we have an Illinois politician running things elsewhere. This state is screwed up, even the democrats can't get along and we have near total gridlock. I used to think other states were worse, but no, I don't think so anymore. I always overestimate the value of my cars for the state, even if they are in pieces, just so I don't have to hear from them. I made the mistake of getting plates (antique) for a car that I didn't drive, but thought that within 5 years I might. I got a proof of insurance letter in the mail and blew it off since the car hadn't moved and I had insurance, so I wasn't breaking any law. The next letter gave me 5 days to prove that I had insurance and outlined serious penalties with draconian fines, and I overnighted that original insurance card to them right now. Sort of ironic since since very few uninsured people are driving collector cars. They are serious, and when you call them, they don't joke around. I am not saying that you deserve to pay the tax, just that it may be easier to do it. These guys at the top really want that money and they force the bureaucrats and state employees to collect as much as they can or they will be replaced.

Another Illinoisian here--pay it, this state will screw you till you are blind. Sorry for the harsh language but I have had my experiences with our fine state government. Its not worth the trouble they will make for you.

What frightens me is that we may ALL get a taste of their style of government soon.

Ultimately my attorney sent the state a copy of the appraisal along with a letter requesting either an administrative hearing or an outright dismissal. It's been over nine months & I've heard nothing more from them.

The appraiser told me that he's involved with several such Illinois Department of Revenue fishing expeditions each year. Apparently when you "win," the state quietly moves on to easier targets without further acknowledgement, so I guess it will be awhile till I receive my official letter of apology & offer to reimburse my unnecessary expenses....



You don't know the half of it. Illinois is a cesspool. A lot of folks are in for a rude awakening when they receive the "change" that's coming.

Chuck

It's not only IL.

I changed principal garage location on all the old cars last fall after our zealous local state legislator tried to pull the rug out from under antique licensed cars, and I had to re-register all of them anyway. Since I plan to move back to Halifax County in a few years, and maintain a mailing address out there, I figured one more thing to get out of the way before the move. Besides, that's where the cars are living now.

Then I got the personal property tax and local license bill from Halifax County, and be damned if the County didn't have all of the antique licensed cars on it. By state law, antique and vintage licensed vehicles are exempt from property tax and local licensing.

So I call the County revenue office. And they told me that only antique plates are exempt and all vintage plates are subject to taxation and license fees. Since when???

So I call DMV headquarters in Richmond, and after some 20 minutes wait, got someone who fortunately was familiar with the antique plate laws. That person stated flatly that the County was in violation of state law if they tried to collect those fees on an AV permanent vintage plate (which all of mine are).

Called the County again and got the same babble. Told them I'd already discussed it with DMV headquarters and that I knew for fact that part of the statute had not changed.

Then they say they'd have to check with surrounding counties to see what they were doing. No, you do not need to talk with other revenue offices, you need to talk with the DMV Commissioner.

Finally told them that if it went as far as a legal challenge, the County would lose. And you would be amazed at how quickly their story changed. I had an amended property tax statement in two days.

The only trouble is, that local House member sits on Counties Cities and Towns subcommittee, and I fully expect him to try and monkey with the antique plate statutes again so these money-hungry local governments can tax them at exorbitant assessments.

PLEASE, PLEASE people, dont invite more of them down here. We already got enough, and they just come down here. They try to change what we do to the way it was back home. They have made their bed up there. Let um lay in it.

You mean I don't get my gas tank filled and my mortgage paid off for free???

Go buy a $100. junker and title it n Md. they have a "minumum" that you pay tax on, like $600.

Get a deal on a newer car? not here, they'll go the the book value and charge you tax on that instead!

BS!