OK guys, I've got a question....

Who on the Forum has registered national DOT numbers on their vehicles for pulling car trailers??

For some reason my dad has his undies in a knot that if we don't get the truck that pulls our car trailer a DOT registration number for interstate use, that big brother is going to come after us. I know that there are a lot of criminals who are smuggling cars to AACA national meets without DOT numbers on their pull vehicles.

I know we're not a business, and if we were, I could understand, but as a private individual who pulls their car trailers to 2-3 meets a year, I have a tough time believing this.

Has anyone encountered any problems on this??

Does anyone know of a private individual who has had legal issues on this??

Does anyone know how to go through the process of getting the DOT registration numbers established if we do have to do this??

I am a firm believe that my father is worrying about nothing, but if there is someone out there who can help us sort the fact and fiction of this out, I'd appreciate the help.

I went to the www.dot.gov website and really didn't fully understand what they were looking for.

Also, if the statements that my father is hearing is factual, maybe it might be wise to do an article explaining the process, and the requirements in the next issue of the Antique Automobile so that everyone is on the page.

I know that there has been some terrorist links associated with the Packard and Oldsmobile ranks, so we've got to make sure that we all stay legal. If anyone has any information to clarify this issue, please let me know.

(This is what I've heard from the Drag racing hobby/industry)

I do know they have been cracking down on those indivduals with units over 26,000 lbs. We had one guy pass a scales with his motorhome and trailer (I forgot in which state) and they chased he down and made him go back and through the scales. Also the graphics on the trailers are being used to determine wether it is commerical and you need a CDL or Class A driver's license.

I have heard that there has been some recent increase in enforcement around the race industry as Novaman indicated.

From the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website at:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/about/other/faq/faqs.asp#name22


Question 3.
What is the difference between interstate commerce and intrastate commerce?

Interstate commerce is trade, traffic, or transportation involving the crossing of a State boundary. Either the vehicle, its passengers, or cargo must cross a State boundary, or there must be the intent to cross a State boundary to be considered an interstate carrier. Intrastate commerce is trade, traffic, or transportation within a single State.



Question 20.
Now that I have determined that I will be operating in interstate commerce, what do I need to do to begin?

A USDOT Number is required if you have:

vehicles that are over 10,000 lbs,
if you transport between 9 and 15 passengers (including the driver) for compensation,
if you transport 16 or more passengers, or
haul hazardous materials in interstate commerce.

There is no application fee ever associated with the U.S. DOT Number. You must complete the MCS-150 (Motor Carrier Identification Report) and a MCS-150A (Safety Certification Application) to obtain a USDOT Number. The forms can be found on our web site at http://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov. The MCS-150 and MCS-150A can be completed on line or you can print out a copy of the forms, complete and mail to the address indicated. If you do not have access to the Internet, you can call our toll-free number at 1-800-832-5660 to have one mailed to you.

Generally, if you are operating as a "for-hire" motor carrier of regulated commodities or passengers in interstate commerce, you must also obtain interstate Operating Authority (MC Number) unless your "for-hire" operation is limited to the transportation of exempt commodities, or you operate within a commercial zone, exempt from the interstate Operating Authority rules. Information about commercial zone exemptions may be found at 49 CFR 372.

Basically, taking your own vehicle between states to a show would not require MC Numbers. If you are over 10,000 lbs and are operating "For Hire", i.e. transporting someone else's vehicle between states for payment, you Would be required to have MC Numbers on your vehicle.

Members, be aware that you should keep a copy of your application in your vehicle as proof that you have applied for the USDOT number. This will allow you to operate immediately. I have pmed Pat with other information.

Wayne

Pat,

For what it is worth: my friend who has a 52' enclosed trailer and has it registered (commercial) as he uses it for hauling his clients vehicles to shows all over the country. He is well over 10,000 pounds and according to him he must carry a log book, x amount of hours allowed on the road driving, etc. He has been pulled over a few times and not only was his truck & trailer paperwork checked he tells me he is supposed to have the title on board for the clients vehicle(s) he is hauling.

I on the other hand like you haul my own stuff and have many miles towing to date. I have been questioned a few times. My trailer has "not for hire" on each side which I'm told alerts the weigh stations, etc that this is a non commercial vehicle (I don't pull into weigh stations) translated to private individual hauling his own stuff. Again you should carry proof that this is your vehicle you are hauling. From what I have been told, if you are caught hauling someone else's vehicle this would put you in the commercial class and you risk receiving a stiff fine and impoundment of your truck, trailer and the vehicle you are hauling.

I guess I'll have to get a DOT number. When I hook that tri-axle trailer up to my truck and load the fire truck on it, I'm over 10,000 lbs.

This is the first that I've heard of it, and I'm quite surprised. Being a private owner/operator and not doing this as a business, I am very surprised, and honestly wouldn't have ever believed it.

Steve, this might be a good topic for an article in Antique Automobile. If anything to educate everyone, explain the process and requirements, and keep things legal. You never know when a terrorist firetruck hauler is going to overtake Hershey and create a ruckus

Somebody correct me if I am wrong....

I know that you are over 10,000 lbs, but you might not need the numbers.

Their website indicates:

vehicles that are over 10,000 lbs,
if you transport between 9 and 15 passengers (including the driver) for compensation,
if you transport 16 or more passengers, or
haul hazardous materials in interstate commerce.

The syntax is a little bit convoluted but my understanding is that you only have to have the numbers under the following circumstances:

you transport between 9 and 15 passengers (including the driver) for compensation or

you transport 16 or more passengers or

haul hazardous materials in interstate commerce

So, unless it falls under the hauling of hazardous smaterials in interstate conmmerce, which I don't think it does, I think you are OK without the numbers.

Matt, I think anything involving a "For Hire" status would come into play here too.

Wayne

As I understand it, the For Hire part kicks in and requires numbers at 9 occupants.

For anything over 16 passengers it is required whether For Hire or not.

Hazardous materials requires it whether For Hire or not.

I suspect anybody that is For Hire will have the numbers and it may be required under some other regulation, but for the purposes of carrying your own vehicle, as long as there are less than 9 occupants, the numbers should not be required.

Just remember to have the vehicle appropriately licensed in the licensing state for the total weight involved.

It takes me about an extra $100 per year to register for sufficient weight to make sure I am legal here in NC.

Matt, I have a friend that has a 5th trailer that he hauls used cars on. At times he takes the "signs" off the doors so he can run back home without worrying about a log book, which is required with those DOT numbers. He may have other reasons too that I'm not aware of.

I'd suggest that if you see such a small Dodge 5th wheel setup, ask them about. The man that runs up and down the road each day with this type of equipment knows what you can and can't do (what they can get away with, Officer Hinson :)). I'm sure they know more about it than a local DMV office.

Wayne

I had been to the DOT website, went through things and really didn't understand it.

Being that we've exceeded the 10,000lb limit, we're still not a operating as a business, we're not out for hire, and aside from the gas in the gas tank of the vehicle on or in the trailer, we're not a hazardous materials hauler, so I didn't see where we fit into the scenario.

Here is a case where whatever the regulations are, we want to be legal. My thoughts are that with the thousands of members who haul their vehicles to AACA meets, tours, etc. over throughout the year, someone would be in the position to have some knowledge on this.

As mentioned before, this would probably make a good topic for the Antique Automobile to get the correct information out to everyone in the club, rather than to just those who read the Forum.

I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV nor did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I don't know the law but I have never had DOT numbers on my truck and never been stopped or anything. One time I blew a trailer tire on the way to Hershey in Ohio and the state police stopped and told me I had to move the truck and trailer off the side of the interstate flat tire or no flat tire. I was not allowed to put the spare on in the grass beside the interstate. He was a real jerk I ended up ruining the rim as I had to drive about 3 miles with it flat. I could have had it changed in a 10th the time it tool to limp the truck and trailer 3 miles to the exit. He said stopping on the interstate in Ohio was only allowed for Emergencies. and he hardly considered a flat tire an emergency.
I sure if I should have had numbers and he knew it he would have given me grief about it. But my trailer was under 10K Lbs GVW.

Pat, I had a big rig (43 ft trailer) and found so many different answers I threw my hands up. However, the one common thread was whether or not I was a commercial enterprise. Since GM owned the complete rig I was required to get a commercial license and stop at weigh stations. Some were not very happy I stopped and told me so!

Different states, different regulations it seems. I had DMV officials disagree with each other. So my guess is that if someone is going to do a story they are going to have a real challenge!

Steve, that pretty well sums up the problems Pat is learning about. Not only different states regulate differently, but even different troopers see things differently.

In my opinion, the best thing to do is drop by a local truck scale, or even ones in a nearby state that you may frequent and ask them what you need. They're most likely the guys that are going to give you grief if you're not right, so they may as well be the ones to point you in the right direction.

Wayne

Steve,

I went to the website, and then I called the 1-800 number on the DOT website, and spoke with an operator.

What I was told on the phone is that YES you do have to register for a DOT number if you're over 10,000 lbs. Even though we're not a business, we had to register as a commercial carrier. After informing the operator that we were not a business, and only used the trailer for hauling vehicles to car shows, she said that it didn't matter. I was informed that it is requirement for SAFETY, and not for just businesses. The operator said that in our case we had to register as a commercial carrier, and for interstate use.

Apparently the law has been in effect for quite some time, but there was a 'window' from the time that the law was enacted until it was actually enforced. In this case it isn't a state issue, it is a federal issue.

Without jamming DOT phonelines, everyone who is exceeding the 10,000lb weight limit by hauling our cars and trailer to meets out of state, we probably all should find out the answer and see if someone is getting a different answer than what I got.

Pat, that is incorrect. There's no way they can force you to register as a commercial vehicle when you're transporting your own vehicles. The insurance fees, state filings, and other ugly stuff, even including fuel tax reports and state mileage reports, does not apply to you. Please talk to someone in the know.

In the meantime, I'll contact my friend and report back to you.

Wayne

That's what I was thinking all along. A DOT registration number on a pickup that usually isn't pulling a trailer on the road more than 6 days out of a year is ridiculous.

Pat, my friend says he has the DOT number, ICC rights, the whole bit while hauling used cars and such on an open 5th wheel trailer (He owns a 3/4 or 1 ton Dodge diesel). He travels to North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland, that I know of. When he drops off a load and comes back empty, he pulls the name tags off (I'm not saying this is legal), and sails on past all scales without stopping (With you pulling an enclosed trailer, it doesn't hurt to stop even when empty).
He says that private rigs hauling your own cars (with ownership registration in your truck) should stop at all scales regardless, but that they're not required to purchase the "for hire" tags, DOT numbers or run log books and such.

I hope that helps.
Wayne

Pat, your original question was...

"Who on the Forum has registered national DOT numbers on their vehicles for pulling car trailers??"

We are at over 100 views and nobody has answered that they have DOT numbers. Nobody has said... I have them and here is the law that says you have to have them....

I am quite sure that if there was a regulation requiring a private owner to have the numbers to tow their own vehicle, somebody would have piped up by now with the information.

I am licensed for up to 12,000 lbs weight on my Tahoe in NC. I don't enter weigh stations and have never been stopped.

My reading of the regulations tells me that I don't need the numbers to tow my own car.

Unless somebody shows me a regulation requiring it, I am not going to change anything.

Matt, is your trailer open or closed?

Oh, forgot. I have both an open and closed trailer and I don't stop for much of anything, except gas stations. My 1/2 ton does not have DOT numbers. I've driven my closed trailer to Charlotte, NC numerous times, been to Rochester, NY once. I have recently hauled furnature on the open trailer to Oklahoma City, didn't stop for anything. Trailered my '56 Chevy on the open trailer to Ocala Florida last year, didn't stop for anything.

I'm sure Earl Beachamp and other Directors have been all over this country without problems.

Hopefully they'll chime in.

Wayne

My trailer is an enclosed trailer.

I have been from Southeastern NC to Hershey and back as well as from Southeastern NC to Kalamazoo and back without any problems.

I've never heard of such a thing. Personally I pull with a (ugh) GMC Suburban. If you're hauling for yourself and nobody else I don't think you need anything special. I've never had to stop for a weigh station except my first trip to Florida after 9-11.

Yeah the operator I talked to never talked about weigh stations, they only talked about safey registration.

I agree with what is being said, but then after making the phone call, they're telling me yes it has to be done. Personally I feel that if it was a major issue, there would've been a couple of hundred AACA members that would've gotten tickets by now. There isn't a cost involved, but I know my brother in-law had to do with his truck for hauling his draft horses.

I worked for a private collector and we had a 5th wheel dualie that pulled a two-car trailer. We did not have DOT numbers because we didn't do any hauling for anyone but the boss, and not for money. we would go through weigh stations when necessary (most of the weigh stations in Michigan are closed, and a joke since the state allows the heaviest trucks in the nation), the weigh stations guys would just nod to us, and we would go about our business. One time we got in a "discussion" with a real Barney Fife weigh station official about DOT numbers and what we were doing. He was convinced that we were lying, that the rig was our business. We convinced him that the rig, the two cars in the trailer were all the property of one man, but he was convinced that the purpose of the trip was making money for the boss and that we needed to come clean about this. We had to explain how much an average Concours d'Elegance participant spends to get his cars to a given show, how much was spent on lodging, food, fuel (we were on salary so we did shows out of the kindness of our heart) and that SHOULD the boss come away from the show with an award (we called them "bowling trophies") the value of the award was miniscule in comparison to the expense of getting there and back. He was getting a window into a world far beyond the scope of imagination of your average civil servant weigh station attendant.

Anyone had to get a driver physical ?

Can't remember if it was a Maryland thing or a National thing, but anyway I didn't need a CDL to drive my vintage 1966 Ford C750 as it was just under 26,000lb.... but they told me I had to go down and get a doctors note / physical. For $50 hard earned dollars I was given in return a piece of cardboard good for 2 years worth of driving, telling me I was fit as a fiddle.