Steve - if I'm remembering the articles correctly - there were two where they were lobbying for acceptance of certain post-war cars. They completely mis-understand the purpose of the club. I'm not much of a club guy, although I do belong to about 1/2 a dozen clubs including the CCCA. Personally, if I don't like what's going on with a particular club, no need to renew my membership. For some reason the CCCA comes under external attack - i.e. people who are not members but seem to be "offended" that their particular car is not on the CCCA roster.

A.J.

I think HMN 'classic car' magazine contributor Jim Donnelly's column was offensive. CCCA bashing seems to be fashionable these days, much like the relentless bashing of Republicans by the Democrat dominated news media.

Go to your neighborhood church and try to introduce/impose your views on the congregation and see how far you get.

These people that want their Model T, 55 Chevy or 69 Corvair accepted in the CCCA bring to mind a picture of a horny gnat floating down the Mississippi river on his back shouting "raise the drawbridge".

I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not.

Steve that was absolutely a compliment. As I said, well bought - you have a great car (indeed a recognized Classic) for essentially Model A money. I would love to add a bigger car from the same era to my garage - problem is we are trying to "agree" on the next one! (actually not a bad problem, I am lucky Mrs. Mack has an active interest - the Olds is really hers!)

Re HCC editorials - I just re-checked my dates. Actually I received my September issue just yesterday but got October last week. The two articles Dep5 refers to, as I did earlier are in the October issue. Schultz writes a general but non-offensive editorial on inclusion criteria in September. Without looking at the dates I assumed I got the next issue, and I thought the Schultz editorial was a kind of attempt at balance. Sorry for confusion but being a new subscriber I guess that is just the order in which they came.

Just to correct a couple of misconceptions:

First, CCCA doesn't take "All Cadillacs." as reported. The correct list is:

Cadillac All 12's and 16's

All V-63 from 1923
1925 -1935 - All
1936 -1948 - All 63, 65, 67, 70, 72, 75, 80, 85, 90 Series
1938 -1947 - 60 Special
1940 -1947 - All 62 Series

CCCA recognized "Full Classics" are listed on the CCCA Web site, as well as in our "Member's Roster & Directory." The list is even printed on our Membership Application, just so you'll know exactly what you are getting in to.

CCCA is a specialty club. That’s no different from many organizations. Even AACA excludes cars that are less than 25 years old. Everyone has some kind of standard.

In fact, CCCA is the car club that popularized the term "Classic Car." The founders of the Club had a very definite idea of what they had in mind when they called their cars “Classics.” Did you know that CCCA was formed because AACA thought these cars were too new? In hindsight, it's quite amusing. The story can be found on the CCCA web site for those willing to take the time to look.

Over the years, the general public adopted the term "classic" and applied it to almost anything. There is a place near me called "Classic Donuts." The CCCA Board, being aware that their name was being used by just about anyone to describe just about anything, decided to look for a way to secure the rights to a name that described the cars that are unique to the Club. They chose "Full Classic."

To be honest, I was less than excited with the term. At the time, I was a Regional Director, and wrote the Board, urging them to adopt something more user friendly, like "CCCA Classic." That was not to be, and Full Classic became a registered trademark. Such is life.

Currently, the Club uses "Full Classic," "CCCA Classic," and "Classic" (with a capital "C") interchangeably. There is no arrogance intended. It is simply a referral to the list of cars we accept.

If you aren't happy with the list, you can ask the CCCA Classification Committee to adopt a new car or model. You must be a member of the Club to do that, and you must actually own one of the cars in question. That sounds fair, and it is. Will it be accepted? Maybe. That depends on how the car fits in the Club. Keep in mind that in well over 50 years of defining what cars are acceptable, the pool of prospects for inclusion has proportionally diminished. The obvious choices have already been made. Still, hardly a meeting goes by when another car isn't added to the roster.

My views are probably more liberal than many on the Classifications Committee, but since I've been a voting member, I can only remember one car that was refused that I thought should have been included. Prior to that time, there were several that didn’t make it, but that was then, and this is now. In the last ten years or so, 98% of the time, I'd have to say that the right decision was made and 100% of the time, the car in question got a fair hearing. People do tend to have different opinions from time to time. Not everything is a “shoe in.” On the Classifications Committee, it is a democratic process. The majority rules.

As for CCCA events being "closed" affairs, some are, and some aren't. If it is closed, it is because it is being held on private property, and the Region hosting the event is paying a fee to the property owner for each attendee. We do tend to hold our meets, which we call Grand Classics, at some very amazing locations. Some times they are places that us mere mortals might not otherwise see. That’s one of the real “perks” of the Club. The down side is it can make it difficult to invite all of our non-member friends.

Most of the time, our events are in publicly accessible locations and we are more than happy to see other car hobbyists drop by to see what it is all about. In fact, we'd like you to do so. Where else do you think we find new members? The affliction is contagious.

Actually, this is a very good point. Mob rule won.



So is your constant whining about a club that you don't belong to. Who cares what you think. Get over it. CCCA prefers the cars of kings.

Where did I get the idea an antique car was defined as one from before 1915? And a classic was from the period 1925 to 1940?

I'm sure these were someone's official definitions once but that was a long time ago and I don't remember where I got them from. But I always had the idea they were "official".

Does anyone else know where these definitions may have come from? I'm sincerely puzzled here.

Well, HCCA takes cars up to 1915, which is credited as being the end of the Brass Era. CCCA originally was 1925 to 1941, with the advent of WW II as the cut off. Later they added 1948 as the cut off date because some post war cars were virtually identical to pre-war cars. A few years ago CCCA added pre 1925 cars that are "virtually identical" to CCCA Classics that were produced in 1925. It seemed like a fair thing to do. I really can't tell the difference between a 1925 Rolls-Royce and a 1924 model, and neither can most mere mortals.

Technically, any car that is 25 years or older qualifies as an "antique" in most states. AACA and VMCCA abide by that standard. Our friends in the UK think of early cars as "Veteran," but they will call almost anything a "classic." It seems that we really are divided by a common language.

Here is a link to common collector car terms:
http://www.chalkhillmedia.org/Museum/historic_automotive_terms.htm

Use it at your own risk.

For those that haven't seen it there's a good thread on this subject on the AACA side.

See: In your eyes.......

At one time I thought the CCCA was too focused on particular cars of a certain era, but I have changed my view. I attended the joint CCCA-LCOC-LZOC meet in 2006, and all I can say is I hope that the CCCA *doesn't* expand its mission.
Are cars like the 1956-7 Mark II, the '57-58 Eldorado Brougham and the Mercedes Gullwing every bit as exclusive and well-built as the Full Classics? Sure, but the CCCA is a celebration of cars from a particular era, when automobiles were still relatively new and luxury simply couldn't be mass-produced.
And as much as I like my '37 Zephyr coupe, it still has the characteristics of a mass-produced car. Cars like the Zehpyr, the 120 Packard, and the junior Cadillacs may have taken sales away from the Full Classics, but that doesn't mean they should be in the club with them.