Quadfins, You say you can tell from the judging sheets that your car scored at least the minimum 365? I have never requested a judging sheet so I am wondering how you can determine that you scored at least 365. Only way I can see to do this would be to add up the total maximum deductions for the areas checked and subtract from 400. Is this how you are able to tell or does the sheet actually say you scored at least 365? Just curious.

Let me give you take on the 10 point spread.

Take my case
I have a 1955 Thunderbird that I drive to all national shows I attend, sometime as far as 600 miles. The bird is a nice mostly original car and as a judge I think it could score 365 points, it has a lot of one or two point deductions as any driven car has but nothing major or incorrect. True a single car can only beat you twice at most. But I have never been to a National show that didn?t have a fresh professional restored 55-57 Thunderbird pulled out of a trailer going for a junior. So basically if you drive your 55-57 thunderbirds you are not going to win a national first place.
So In my case and I am sure in other the only thing the 10 point spread does is discourage us from driving our cars and I hate to see AACA do that.
I would guess that is why AACA set a first at 365 in the first place so a driven and enjoyed car could still win a first.
On the other side I have a whole bunch of Second place trophies, if I ever won a First and didn?t win Senior I wouldn?t get anything.

How do I know the car scored over 365? I was curious, so I asked directly when I sent in for the score sheet. I quote the reply:

"As is sometimes the case, your vehicle scored above the minimum number of points to receive a First Junior, but was not within the ten point spread of the top scoring vehicle".

Same the second time.

Etc...

And I am not advocating raising the points bar. 92% is pretty high. I am only advocating consistency. A car either DOES or DOES NOT meet the minimum points necessary to be recognized. To qualify it with IT DOES, except, if, maybe, at this meet, or in that class, some other car arrives that is ten points better... is inconsistent, and misleading. Twice and it becomes frustrating. Three times and it appears to be a permanent trend.
The judging sheets have been very helpful, in drawing attention to areas that need work. I have benefited from their clues. Another unbiased eye is also very helpful in spotting those items that otherwise seem so "normal". I am also willing to accept a certain number of points deducted. Deduct 100 points, if the car deserves it, and I will know what to work on. But since I do not store the car in a climate controlled cocoon in between trailering it to national meets, it will never be a 390 point car. It is not a museum piece. I just don't want to fool myself into attempting First Junior level again, knowing that, even though it SHOULD make the grade, it is all dependent upon the chance of who else might show up at a given meet. I don't mind coming in second, third, or way below someone else - Lord knows, that has happened all the time. But don?t explain to me, when that happens, that we are not competing against each other. We are, or we are not. It is one, or the other. It can not be both. At least, it should not be both.

Jay,
You make the point perfectly. The ten point rule discourages us from driving our cars to meets, and by default, favors those who can professionally restore, and then trailer them. I find that concept anathema to the hobby. It is why younger kids gravitate toward Civics and preludes, because they no longer see the older Detroit Iron on the road. Does anybody remember the thread, some months ago, about where have all the Brass Era Cars gone? It sparks no interest in the next generations if they are locked up in a garage.
Now, certainly, no one expects a 100 year old Rambler to drive to a meet. And I truly respect those who drive cars older than my own, since I have the benefit of power this and automatic that. Mine is a luxury marque (NOT Marquee!!!) that has all the options to make it a thoroughly modern car to drive to a meet. But because I do drive it, there are certain things that will always get at least ten points deducted. (THAT brings up another pet peeve of mine, but I will save it for another thread.) So as long as there is a ten point rule, it is pointless to attempt a First Junior, unless one knows in advance that no new, fresh restoration will also be there. But then that concept brings up the specter, again, that the cars ARE actually competing against each other. Perhaps the answer would be (insert tongue in cheek) to add a five point bonus to each car, for every 100 miles that it is driven to get to a meet.

I can relate to this as well...having an original car that has received multiple 2nd & 3rd Junior awards and any original car struggles to compete with restored cars. Getting 2nd's and 3rd has become a trend for me. I have never requested a judge sheet...I have little confidence in any event that is judged (dog shows, car shows, gymnastics, diving etc..) I bet the 10 point rule has "saved" me and I bet it has "hurt" me. I think knowing that your car met the requirement to win a 1st Jr, but was bumped out by the 10 pt rule....that would really hurt! I can certainly see where it could get discouraging for someone....maybe it should be looked at?? Set benchmarks for the cars...that you can improve your car and not worry about the big money resto cars that steal the shows.

My question is, how could you possibly know how your car scored? No one in the judging system (which includes people working in administration) is allowed to reveal scores to the owners, [color:"red"] ever [/color] . So unless the rules are being broken you are assuming that your car is that good.

Ex gave good advice to you. Go to a judging school, go to some CJE classes and go out with an apprentice team and see what our judging system is all about. Ask for a highlighted copy of your score sheet. It will not show how many points were taken off but it will tell you where you need to correct areas with problems. ONE point can make the difference. Ask members that are in your club that judge at the national level to look the car over and tell you what they think.

We know a guy that was very impressed with the paint job on his Mustang. He spent several thousand dollars on it. I wouldn't have put that car in a show with the poor workmanship that he paid for.

Steve,
I apologize for implying that the reason for keeping the rule is because it has always been done that way. I had no basis for implying that, except for my experience in other matters - you know how committee work goes, and when someone comes up with a new idea, everyone jumps on him and points out why it can NOT work, rather than seeing the possibilities if it DOES work.

My purpose in raising this issue is exactly as you perceive, namely, is there a silent majority out there that is fed up with the rule? Or, conversely, is there a majority that can express a rational reason WHY the rule is perpetuated, and what benefits it brings. It MAY encourage some to do more to improve their cars. It IS discouraging some of us from bringing them to meets. Where is the cost-benefit balance? Speak up, Oh Silent Majority!

Please see above posts, # 467440 and 467405.

And I am not at all criticizing the judges or the judging system, as they do their jobs. They have always been polite, welcoming, accommodating, and more than generous in their observations. I think that the system traps them, too. They may think, Oh, that car SHOULD be awarded a First Junior (or senior, or whatever), but will lose out due to the unavoidable circumstance that this next car is ten points better. That must be terribly difficult for a judge to have to deal with, looking into the eyes of the "lesser" owner, and knowing the disappointment that waits later that evening. It is NOT the judge?s fault. It is a Catch 22.

I did go back and read them. I had been gone for a week and a half so I skimmed through the longer posts to try to catch up. I was unaware that owners were told anything about how they scored, so that was a surprise.

One thing did bother me. Your comment about judges being people having ten minutes to spare. We are instructed to not spend more than that per car because when you add four people looking at a car that adds up to forty minutes per car. Sometimes we spend less on a car that is perfect or nearly so, there is just no reason to stand there killing time (especially if there are a lot of cars to be judged, it is raining or the temperature is in the 80's or 90's on a paved lot). Other times we spend more than that to be fair and document all deductions even though we know the car is not going to win anything, even if they were the only car in the class.

Judges drive hundreds of miles in a year and spend a lot of money to do this. We attend a judging school and usually at least one CJE per year(we can only get one credit each for a class and a CJE, unless it we take a mandatory CJE for special levels of points.) Many of us don't bring cars (our car is not ready yet), we just make the trip to help the hobby survive. We get a brass colored "chip" to recognize what we do.

And you admit that there are items that you know about but are unwilling to fix. That is your choice. But it may take fixing at least some of them to put you on the First Junior winner list.

Trust me, we want to award trophies. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I expressed myself poorly.
The 'ten minutes to spare" comment was perhaps too flippant. What I meant, in the context of the thought, was that I live with the car all year, and know in intimate detail every good and bad point about it. I realize that it is impossible for judges to spend enough time on each car to thoroughly analyze it, and therefore, they give it the benefit of the doubt. They must move on, to cover the other 400 cars at the meet. I neither meant, expressed, nor implied any criticism of the judges. I have never disputed any of the points that I have been deducted. I admire the judges for the sacrifice they make. In fact, that is why I have not yet volunteered to judge - I have not yet gotten my fill of the cars to see and drool over. I know that they hardly get to see any except those they judge. It is a great gift they provide to club members. I do not want this thread to warp into an inappropriate discussion about judges or their procedures.

But I will emphasize again, that it is not the points deducted, nor the points level that I disagree with. It is the dual standard of claiming that the cars do not compete against each other, while at the same time retaining a rule that requires them to score within ten points to be awarded the same level of recognition, creating a de facto competition within the judging classes..

As for the things I need fixing... regardless of what they are, it does not affect the heart of my objection. If 365 or 375 or 380 points is the cutoff for a specific award, it should be the cutoff, regardless of how other cars score.

I do NOT want to open another tangential discussion about an issue that I also feel passionate about. Suffice to say that I will always lose 12 points off the top, therefore I will never reach First Junior as long as there are newly restored 99+ point cars in the class. As a result my car IS competing against those cars, regardless of what we claim. But the same car, with the same points deductions WILL reach First Junior, maybe even Senior status, if it is ever so fortunate to be in a meet with no other cars in the same category. Again, this proves that the cars DO compete against each other, and it is simply a matter of fortune that determines the outcome. So the question for me, and others, is how often can we gamble before we get too frustrated and give up. It is this lingering bitterness that deters us from becoming long term, active members.

I believe that you want to award trophies. I think the ten point rule artificially prevents you from doing so, for deserving cars. That is why I object to it. I still have yet to read a reasonable defense of it.

You see Jay, I agree with the current point system, but in the case for people such as yourself, that's where I don't agree with it. I have a cousin who has a 1955 Thunderbird that is completely original (right down to the tires even) that has 18,000 miles on the car. This car would easily win a First Junior but would never make the point spread.

I feel that if a vehicle owner has been able to get a car that has been maintained all of these years and is still able to score their required points, they've earned the award. That's where I feel that HPOF should be used as a "proving ground" for original vehicles.

In simpler terms, a restored car goes into its' class and gets the awards within the point spread, where the unrestored cars get their HPOF Certification, then advance to the appropriate class at the next show that they go to, and be given the award sought as long as it scores the points regardless of what anyone else scores.

Once the car earns its' HPOF certification, then the car should go into its' respective class. If the car scores high enough to win a First Junior, or a Senior Award, it gets the award. If not, then it should get an HPOF participation Award. I feel that the HPOF cars being "put out to pasture" like a herd of cattle with everything else is wrong. I am a firm believe that the Packards should be with the Packards, the Mustangs should be with their Mustangs, and the Model 'A's should be with Model 'A's

Here is the history of the AACA judging system.

Some of the older members will have to correct me if I?m wrong here. This in what I?ve found from old judging manuals, AACA films, etc

AACA was started by a group of disgruntled antique automobile derby participants that wanted better prizes and treatment from derby officials. By the 40s, interest turned away from reliability runs and shifted to appearance, authenticity and judging.

The first points system was used in 1936. Take the number of years the cars is older than the minimum set for entrant, multiply by miles traveled then divide by the number of cylinders. Highest point car won.
In 1954: cut-off 1929. no newer years accepted.
In 1955:
1. Smoothness of operation, silence, condition of brakes, general mechanical condition and transportation ability? max 20 pts.
2. Condition of engine?????..max 5
3. Cleanliness of under chassis and lubricators???.max 5 pts
4. Evidence of ?tight? steering gear, king pins, etc., and lubrication???max 10 pts
5. Condition of finish, bright work, woodwork, upholstery and mats???? max 10 pts
6 condition of top or ?hood?????max 5 pts
7. Condition of tires???????.max 5 pts
A all things being equal preference will be given to vehicle restored by owner over purchased already restored or had professionally restored.
B. No additional points or consideration shall be given for finishing to a higher degree than was original or for superior performance due to installation of non-original equipment. Inappropriate accessories or equipment may be items to reduce the points of scoring allowed, at the discretion of the judges. This does not mean that there be any penalties for superior work of restoration of for contemporary accessories.
C. during judging driver should be available to start engines so that their operation may be appraised. Judges must not start the engine unless authorized to do so by the driver.
D. Unless in case of a tie, the newness or condition of tires shall for the most part be disregarded in judging. The car should be equipped with suitable tires, preferably of original size. This consideration is made due to the extreme difficulty in obtaining tires of certain sizes, and also the expense involved in securing new tires, especially so when the owner has old tires that are wholly suitable for reliable transportation.

1957 reinstated 25 year rule

1960 cutoff set at 1935

1960: 100 point system with sections Paint & finish, Wheels& ties, Engine & radiator, etc. Points assigned on a 10 point scale with 10 as maximum. Deductions for non-authentic parts. Minimum of 75 points required to receive any award. Only ONE senior award permitted per class and only ONE junior award permitted per class. No tie provisions.

1963 commercial vehicles except hearses added

1968 production cars cut-off advance on year during each even numbered year until 1940 are accepted then stop.

1970 added fire truck class

In 1970 the judging system was revised to a 1,000 point system with each vehicle entering the field with 1,000 points and deduction in group 1 ? exterior and underside finish, group 2- chassis, wheels and tires, group 3- bright work, group 4 interior and group 5- engine compartment being taken. Deduction for each group would be added and subtracted from 1,000. Minimum points were set Senior-875, 1st JR-875, 2nd jr-750, 3rd Jr-625. First the first time multiple awards were permitted when vehicle scores within 25 points of the highest in each award category

1971 add competition car (race cars)

1973: Point system revised to 400 point system with area being the current, exterior, interior, engine, and chassis. And the minimum points set for senior 365, 1st Jr. 365, 2nd jr 330, 3rd Jr. 295

1975 reinstated the 25 year cut-off rule

1980 the AGNM was approved and the scoring for those meets had a minimum point of 1st (380) 2nd (365) 3rd and preservation (350). Ties were not permitted. That was changed quickly as it was apparent some very well restored vehicles failed to win at the AGNM meets. After several changes, the within 5 points of the highest vehicle was settled on.

1988 HPOF class added

I've got some more comments but it will take some time to make the understandable and it's getting late, I need to be heading for working in 4 hours. in to catch a wink or two.

Work?
How can you let something as frivolous and insignificant as work interfere what are really important - classic cars???

Novaman, thanks for the enlightenment. This is most interesting. I especially like A, B, C, & D. Where have all THOSE flowers gone? I guess that was the good old days, when cars actually drove to meets.

It looks like the 5 or 10 point rule was originally designed to add flexibility, when at the time the cars absolutely competed against each other. That change was commendable. If that is the current rationale, and we want to keep it so, I will be happy to accept it. But I feel that we should then clarify those guidelines, and specifically state that the cars in each class DO compete against each other, with the proviso that close ties will be considered equals. Such a clarification would eliminate the ambiguity of the current guidelines, and make it clear to the rest of us so that we will know what we are really up against. Then we can decide if we really stand a chance, and if we want to attempt to compete. Right now, we don?t know until we see what parks next to us. I perceive that as competition.

As I have stated before, I don't mind losing, I just do mind being fooled into a competition that I otherwise would have known was pointless. If AACA is all about professional restorations and perfect cars, and the rest of us can never penetrate to the upper ranks, so be it. I can then enjoy the meets as a spectator.

None of this would matter if a car is entered in a class with few competitors. I did not see anyone in class 05C at New Bern, but plenty in 28C. So the key to success is to choose the right type of vehicle, and get it to the right meet. The same car, in the same condition, might score Third Junior or First Junior (even senior, later), depending on what was parked next to it. That IS competing against each other. I just want to know where I stand before entering a meet.

Right now where you stand is to decide whether you are willing, or un-willing, to take a chance on a trophy based on how the judging system is as of now and how your car is now.

If you don't want to take the chance, but want to share your car with others <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, ask for it to be entered as a "Do Not Judge" entry. There are always plenty of those. There was one in the class I judged (27e) at New Bern. A 1963 1/2 Ford Falcon Sprint convertible. It's like the one we have in our garage that Bill is restoring.

Right now where you stand is to decide whether you are willing, or un-willing, to take a chance on a trophy based on how the judging system is as of now and how your car is now.

Yep. And that is why I am bringing up this entire topic now, while there is still plenty of time to plan for Cumberland and Charlotte, next May.

Whats wrong with Binghamton next mo, <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Judging school fri. the 29 show sat the 30. Good luck,there is a god. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Quote; "Suffice to say that I will always lose 12 points off the top, therefore I will never reach First Junior as long as there are newly restored 99+ point cars in the class."

Probably 100% correct on your comment.

If you know you are losing 12 points (which is huge amount in AACA) it seems you have a few options. If you want that trophy fix a few things to have less deductions (close the gap), be happy with 2nd's and 3rd's or just sign up as a do not judge and relax and enjoy the cars and the people. That is what I have been doing lately and it sure is a lot more fun then going for a 1st junior, etc.

Don't forget about DPC!!!

Well, here goes (hold nose, jump in)...

twelve point... two words:

radial tires


I consider them to be as much a safety factor and drivability issue as seatbelts and turn signals. I may drive this car 500 miles to a meet, but I drive it much more throughout the rest of the year. I am of the generation that NEVER drove on bias ply tires, except on our decrepit model A, on surface streets, never more than 40 mph. Great for a parade, crummy for a cross country cruise.

I can handle the 12 points, and many others. But even so, the car rates higher than 365, as seen on the judging sheets. The ten point rule keeps it down.

If I invest in a set of bias-ply, then scratch the paint, let the engine grease accumulate, maybe throw in a dent or two, and dump coffee on the upholstery, it may still be over 365.

Which brings us back to...

Is a 365 point car, regardless of where the points are deducted, a First Junior car (excluding competitors), or is it not?

The ten point rule says that it is not. Let?s stay on track here. We USED to be discussing the merits of the ten point rule. Where are the supporting arguments? Trying to change the direction of this discussion with ?But if you did this?? arguments simply obfuscates the original question.

I know that I can gain 15 ? 20 points, if I am willing to demote the car to museum status. That would compromise the whole purpose of owning it ? driving. And even with 20 more points, it might STILL get placed with the next restoration shop newbie. So how has my original question changed?

Suggestions so far:

Fix the car
DPC
Be happy with 2nd/3rd

OK.
But I am still waiting for the reasoning behind the ten point rule, and the benefits it brings the hobby.

Well I will semi stray off topic for one more time to address some of your comments, plus I am heading out of town for a few days so I won't be able to respond.

I had the same frustrations as you getting my 1st junior however I finally got it. It was a lot of hard work which makes me feel even better about winning such an award. I went up against the best and won, finally. By the way it was my radial tires that were stopping me from winning my 1st junior, and probably you too.

I personally think the 10 point rule favored me. I too am of the generation that never drove on bias tires however my car handles fine on bias tires, but all the suspension parts, etc must be in good shape. I have zero issues with bias tires safety wise. Pick some deductions that you can correct that are not expensive like bias tires.

As you stated "I know that I can gain 15 ? 20 points, if I am willing to demote the car to museum status." (See my car on the attachment) You can have a museum car and still drive it and win awards. Mine has been on several local tours in the past 6 months and its first AACA meet was driven 110 miles, one way . Driving to a national meet requires one to clean, scrub, clean, paint, clean, dust, etc, etc, etc for many hours and maybe you just don't want to do that (not trying to start an argument here).

I do agree with Dave the AACA President when he stated "If we change the program and allow all cars 365 or more to win the First Junior then our standard of perfection is no longer 400, it is now 365."

Have a great holiday.

You and many others feel this way. However, that has fallen on deaf ears every time it has been brought up by anyone. Look at how many years everyone drove on bias ply tires and they did just fine.

You can do what we will do when our car is ready for shows. It came to us as a driver with radial tires on it. We plan to get correct show tires and use them only for showing the car. The rest of the time it will be on radials. We aren't going to buck the system, we will spend the money and stay within the rules.

And Steve M. is right, don't forget about the DPC class.

But if you have to have that trophy you are going to have to put forth the effort to earn it under the current rules or get the rules changed. And getting the rule changed will not happen on this forum. And I agree that if they leave the minimum score at 365 for a First Junior and take all that get that then why strive for better? Where is the advantage to the owner that goes that extra mile to have the car be the best it can be?

I figured that out work today. It took me awhile as I couldn't comeup with a 12 point deduction for any one item. That is because the two words Radial Tires usualy equal 15 points (most likely you forgot to count that radial spare, unless it can't be seen)

working on my comments from last night. I'll post them later.

The first thing I do upon arriving at a meet is seek out the local car wash, and proceed to prep the car. This is after hours of pre-trip cleaning, scrubbing, and detailing. The proof of this is in the 365+ points consistently awarded. Believe me; I am not averse to scrubbing engines! Especially since I drive it several times a week, so I give it a good detailing after every expedition. I derive great satisfaction from this effort (not work, mind you...)

I don't agree that the ten point spread lowers the standard. If we want to raise the standard, then raise the minimum points necessary. The standard is set by the points level. 365, 380, 390. Requiring all other cars to be within ten points of the HIGHEST car does not change the minimum points level. Especially in the bigger meet picture. That is to say, the bar is set at, say, 365. In any class, 365 is potentially a First Junior winner. That is the stated points minimum. But the additional requirement that in order to achieve a First, one must score at the minimum PLUS be within ten points of the top scoring car does not lower that minimum. All it says is that some cars, in some "busy" classes, have to compete against each other, as well as achieve the minimum. And there is the heart of my objection. We claim that the cars don?t compete against each other, but they actually do. If a car in class 10A is a First with 365 points, but a car in class 10B is not a First with 389 points, how does that lower the minimum? That 365 is still the stated required level. Remember, my only objection is with the ten point spread, not the minimum points necessary. The point spread automatically handicaps cars that are in popular categories. All that the ten point rule achieves is to set the cars against each other. If we want to raise the standard, then raise the minimum points required. The ten point rule is unnecessary for that. I don't see how the ten point rule can favor anyone. It does not add points to one's score, nor does it lower the minimum points needed. It only serves to cut off otherwise high scoring and deserving cars. Remember, the 365 point car in class X does win, but the 389 point car in class Y does not. How is that helpful? When one car gets the award in a class for making the minimum points, plus being the highest scorer, how does it help by preventing other minimum+ scoring cars from also being recognized? All it does is create frustration. 365 is not a perfect car. First AGNM is. That is where the best of the best get their recognition. First Junior is, in my opinion, the entry level. The better cars will progress and gravitate upward through the levels. That is natural. How does denying deserving entry level cars raise the standard?
I hope you, too have a good holidy, which includes classic cars. I will be taking my daughter to the local National Cemetery, to pay our repects. Maybe we'll drive one of the classics???

So my question is, "Why are those ears deaf?"

Why is there resistance to change?

If the system is beneficial, keep it. If it is detrimental, change it.

I have put forth the effort, and the car has earned it, as the judging feedback sheets consistently prove. Certainly the car has earned 365 points worth of credit, probably more. There are NOT many categories highlighted on the sheet. The only thing holding it down is the ten point rule. In effect, we are saying that, in order to earn First Junior in this class, 365 is not enough - you need 390. That is a double standard, if it is not applied to all classes. That is what I object to.

I am seeking, as my original post clearly states, the rational defense of a system that I feel is detrimental. So far, I have read no convincing arguments that would lead me to conclude that the ten point rule is beneficial.

I realize that the forum is not the means to affect change. It IS a means to exchange ideas. Before I bring a formal motion to the judging committee, I wanted to garner ideas and opinions, and get a consensus viewpoint - am I completely out on a limb, with nothing to support my contention, or do others perceive the situation as I do?

Again, I have read no convincing arguments that would lead me to conclude that the ten point rule is beneficial or provides an incentive for members to become involved in meets. Rather, it discourages those who have made bona fide efforts, worked to achieve a minimum standard, and then realize that their efforts will come to naught when the professionally restored car is delivered to the next spot. If this were an anomaly, a one time fluke, it would not rankle so much. But three times, with no end in sight? Where is the incentive in that? And these ARE factors that many of us must consider as we decide whether or not to continue to participate in meets.

Back to the original question?All of this frustration. For what? There must be some good reason for it (the ten point rule).

We also drove for many years without seatbelts, airbags, electronic ignition, and catalytic converters. How many times must I state that I am not contending the points that are deducted from my car? Some of these are voluntary - I CAN change them if I choose. My objection is to the ten point rule. Regardless of what the points are deducted for - radial tires, seatbelts, chrome air cleaner, bug splats - if 365 points satisfies the minimum for one car, it should satisfy the minimum for all cars. I am not trying to buck the system. If I get deducted 15 points for tires, and you get deducted 15 points for wavy body panels, what is the difference? If both cars are otherwise so well presented that they reach 389 points, why should they be denied recognition, simply because the third car in our class is a 400 point car? At the same time the 365 point car one class over DOES make the grade? Why should I NOT be frustrated?

The advantage for the owner who makes the extra effort is the knowledge that he will continue to progress up the scale -Senior, Preservation, AGNM. He will get there, no matter what. How is he harmed or humiliated if others get to the initial level with him?

It is not the trophy. I already have more that I have room for. It is the principle. Do we compete against each other, or against a scale? Do we say one thing, and do another?

Yes, it was unclear, since the car is of a marque that has a covered spare tire.
From the factory, or dealer added? "Only your hairdresser knows for sure."

Those luxury marques don't want to scratch your luggage, do they?

Nor your fingernails, that's why there is a power remote trunk release and pull down.
46 years old. Works perfectly, now.
AACA doesn't care.
But darned if you run on radials... Even if they are practically the only points deductions.

Looking forward to your comments.