Now, please bear in mind that whilst I somewhat know my way around an engine i'm not the most technically-gifted person.

My buddy was driving my '64 Riviera (with a 425) over to the muffler shop for me when the engine started spluttering, black smoke poured out the exhaust, the gas level dropped and the engine crapped out. Now my buddy has 3 of these cars and definitely has engine skills. His thinking is that the carb and ignition are shot and that we should replace both. Now I trust him 100% and to be honest it'd be nice to have some more efficient and better equipment on the car. We're thinking of an Edelbrock carb and electronic ignition.

My question is what do you guys think? Any recommendations on particular parts which would best be suited (street/daily driver, no race purpose)?

I would rebuild the carb, and see how the car runs. It sounds to me like you have a float or needle and seat problem, I would hesitate to blame the ignition for black smoke. That is a good sign you are getting too much fuel.

Ponts worked for the first 50 years, why change now? If your electronic ignition gos bad ,you go home on a hook, but you can usually fix points on the side of the road.

After spending the afternoon researching carb/manifold options on the web, I agree that a rebuild will probably be the better option. I'm thinking that I could also take the manifold in and have it ported/polished as you mentioned in a previous post.

Just out of curiousity... are there any adapters which enable an Edelbrock/Holley carb to be fitted to the stock manifold?

For a stock engine, "port matching" would be more effective than "porting and polishing". This would mean that you'd get a new intake manifold gasket, place it on the head and mark where the inner edge of the gasket is on the ports and then carefully enlarge the ports to match the gasket. You can also do this on the intake manifold too, but I suspect you'll find more mismatch on the cylinder head side. You'll also have to be careful to not get too deep into the ports in doing this . . . lest somebody in the future might want to take it through NHRA tech (or similar). In reality, this port matching activity is best done with the cylinder heads off of the motor.

Remember, too, using a carburetor adapter will RAISE the carb level with respect to the surrounding body sheet metal (i.e., decreases scant hood clearance!!!). Not to mention it'll make the heat track in the front of the manifold mounting pad ineffective. Rather than trying to adapt a later model Carter AFB or Holley 4160 to the existing manifold, you'd be much better off to get a manifold with a mounting pad that didn't require an adapter to use these later carburetors.

Check with "5563" on his QuadraJet upgrade on his '63 Wildcat. When it's all dialed-in, that should be the best upgrade for a normal street-driven engine -- and one that is "production based".

I know it's easy to quickly condemn an older model carb and point ignition when something goes wrong (as happened to you), but if you change ANYTHING to something aftermarket-based, it'll require a good bit of tinkering to get it all to work right. Most of the carbs you could get from Edelbrock or Holley will now be pretty much universal in nature . . . and all that such would entail in getting the to work well on your Buick engine. From experience, nothing's nearly as "bolt-on" as many magazine people make out like it is, even for a Chevrolet application, unless it is listed as "direct replacement OEM application" in their catalog. Plus, none of those aftermarket carbs will bolt directly to your manifold and use of an adapter would severely compromise air cleaner-to-underhood clearance, which is already tight.

Ignition wise, as noted, points used to work great when that was all we had. Electronics can be better and more accurate, but they also take a minimum battery voltage to work, which is generally higher than what a points system could exist on. Therefore, depending upon the control box, a point system engine would crank and start when an electronic system would crank fine and that's all.

Some fuel problems and ignition system problems can act like the same thing. If the points are not working right (i.e., wrong gap), it won't fire the plugs fully and can act like a flooded carburetor. By the same token, a flooding carburetor can foul the plugs and make things worse on both counts.

So, before you delve into the carburetor, check the point dwell as you crank it over. If it's not approx 30 degrees or so, then the point gap has changed and needs to be readjusted. You can probably clean the spark plugs and recheck the gap (which will also wipe off any buildup from them not firing well) to specs. Then, when you get it running reliably and smoooothly, recheck the point dwell and adjust to specs as necessary (idle speed at base hot curb idle).

One reason the change to electronic ignition on the older engines is so popular is due to wear on the point cam in the distributor will make adjusting the point dwell and gap to BOTH be in specs difficult to do. You can see how much variation there is when you put a dial indicator on the point top and hand-spin the distributor. This results in the pondering of whether to set the dwell to specs or set the point gap to specs--if the point gap is set to specs, the dwell will not be where it needs to be. Dwell affects how much "saturation" or "build-up" time the coil has before it's time to fire the spark plug. So you end up getting the best compromise of point gap and dwell that you can on that particular distributor. Patience and finesse are necessary, plus holding your mouth right as you do it.

I concur that rather than starting to change things, you might be better off to try to make what you've got work . . . first. Then, when it's all working well, you can plan future projects that will, hopefully, be cost effective. Not to mention delaying spending several hundred $$$$$ right now!!!!

Just some thoughts,
NTX5467

I just got off the phone with the guys at Old Buick Parts and they said a carb rebuild would take 8-12 WEEKS!
This can't be right... I mean 4-5 days sitting in an acid bath sure, so maybe 7-10 days max for a rebuild? Wouldn't that be closer?

Does the rebuild include plating the exterior of the parts, for that better than new look?

Yes

Have you tried the Antique Auto Parts Cellar in South Weymouth MA
Email The Cellar @then-now.com
They do great work on carbs and fuel pumps, and use products that will not disolve with gasahol <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Carman Faso just rebuilt the AFB for my 65 GS - 716 693 4090. It looks better then new. He will match it to your application perfectly if he has the the correct information. I know it takes him a while as he waits until he has a few to do at once. That may be why the rebuilder mentioned earlier has a long rebuild time.

Do you have contact details for him?

His # is in my first post. He is not on line, but lives near Buffalo, NY. Carmen is one of the few Nailhead icons around. You will be happy to have found him!