Just asking for your opinion on requiring seat belts to be installed in ALL cars?
Has this been an issue in your own state or province?

The goverment of Ontario has proposed "One Person, One Seatbelt Legislation", probably removing the exception for cars made prior to the use of seatbelts :-(

http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2006/10/31/c6946.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html

After just replacing the interior on my car (1954 Cadillac), it seems that I would have to tear down the front seat to be able to attach a lap belt alone ... :-(

I'm sure other antique cars would be equally as difficult to retrofit seat belts, as well as origionality and cosmetic issues ... :-(

From the local news, it seems that the reason for removing the exceptions was to prevent more people crowded into a vehicle than there are seat belts installed. (ie: A major local accident with 10 people in a mini van with only 7 seat belts installed)

NY. Pa. and many outher states have mandatory seat belt use for ALL persons in front seat,new car or antique makes no differance. NY. where I live has mandatory seat belt use for all minors in rear seat. Do I like this law??I think the adult person should be able to deside for there self.Twice in the past 10 or 12 years I had to cut the belt to free a accident victim because the dam thing was jamed. Every member of my famly has a (rescue me) belt cutter on there key chain. Cost about twenty bucks, dont leave home with out it.

Yes i have heard of that new rules as well, its a continuation of the G2 drivers licence where you can only have as many passangers in that car has seatbelts, but as far as i know Ontario has not removed that law that requires all cars made after dec 31 1970 to have seatbelts reinstalled if they where removed.. as long as that is there and your car was made before that date we are still excempt from the law.. Besides, who would want garage to take on the legal system should a seat belt pull out of the floor, and someone do a face plant on the dash or windshield, who would be liable? the cars where never designed for it, how do you mount belts in a model t? a couple of nails into the floor boards?..

No, you use heavy bolts through a correctly located spot in the floor just as in an all metal car. You'd almost have to find a car with no floor and no firmly mounted seat to have a reasonable excuse not to properly install lap belts at least. However if you want to use nails please go ahead. Doing just that is better than raising my insurance rates by doing nothing. I pay for enough negligent severe head trauma as it is.

It is almost impossible to legally enforce a retrofit for any commercial product, car or otherwise, without a manufacturer recall (which is a simple impossiblity with seat belts as well as an ethical quagmire). Therefore most of us will in all likelyhood continue to be free to be negligent fools if we choose... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

...until that drunk runs the stop sign and we have to pick half of the curb out of our hair.

Dave, calling people names will not further your cause!

Like my Mom always said, "Where are your manners?" <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

New York does not require all cars to have seat belts.if your car came equiped with them you must have them.i believe its 1963 and up have to have them for inspection.i just called nysdmv to check.

but minors cant legally ride in a car without belts.

Leadslead, No offence but my nys inspectors lic. was first issued in 1967. Ive had it a day or two. My latest manual pg. 86 states all vech.1965 and newer must be equiped with seat belts for driver and right side pass. All vech 1971 and newer must have belt for all pass. position. State slogan in regards to belts, click it or ticket. Believe me If not fact I want my $55. fine back. Think spring meet Binghamton ny. Dick

i'll call dmv in albany since they have the info to any changes to laws.

dmv says i'm ok to drive with out the belts.he checked the law
12 pages worth and then asked the safety dept and they said it was ok.

Thanks for reply, I called Binghamton police they couldnt give me a firm ans. transfered me to a state officer he stutered a little said it was a good question and finely said it would be at discration of the officer. Go figure. Dick

In North Carolina, the laws are reasonable. If the car was built without seatbelts, they are not required now. My family can legally ride in a Model A without seatbelts. We don't drive it much.

As a showcar, I now have it as it was originally with no seat belts. If all goes as planned and it is a Senior Grand National car in two years, Then I will probably install seatbelts and do some touring.

i was lucky that nysdmv will take the time to read you page by page the law.so any car which is a 1963 model and up cant be sold or registered unless it has seatbelts.for now it is legal to drive pre 1963 models in ny without a belt.

but next week i move my Desoto to NJ.and i have already talked to NJ with the same question.as antique car owners we have to work so the laws are black and white not up to the officer.

The law is always black and white. Our Constitution demands that. The interpretation or understanding of the law might be a problem, but it is NEVER up to the discretion of an officer as to what the law is. The officer has discretion as to whether he or she wishes to charge you with a violation, but the officer's judgement does not make something legal or illegal. That is why we have lawyers and judges. Each state's statutes are documents that you can study. You can buy a book, or probably find most of them online. The North Carolina General Statutes are online and searchable, so it is really easy for those of us here in NC. Research your states statutes and make sure you comply with them and then even if an officer does not understand the law, you will be OK. If you don't understand the statute, call your local prosecutor's office and get their interpretation of the statute. They would be the one to prosecute a case if you were to be cited for an alleged violation.

Yes, but there are often contradictions, particularly when new statutes (child restraint laws) overlap older ones (seat belt requirements).

Both states that I've lived in recently offer no exemption for child restraints in antique cars. Although seat belts are not legally required in either state for cars where they were not originally equipped, children in those cars are required to be in DOT apporved child restrains (all of which, of course, require seat belt anchorage). No exceptions.

Also if belts are installed their use is required by both states regardless of the car's year of manufacture.

=====

Also "fool" is a rather mild word for someone taking unnecessary risks, and has been used here repeatedly for years on this and other topics by many (if not most) posters. This is especially true as an abstraction and not in direct reference to an individual, as I believe I used it here.

Dave is right you install them you have to use them.and the laws concerning kids are over riding some laws.look at the states that have age limits on motorcycle passengers.but then write the law so you can look at it and not have to call the main dmv .the finial say is not the state[they think they are the top of the food chain but they are not].it will be the insurance companies.

Dave, Obviously North Carolina is not one of the two states that you have lived in.

Good luck with your own state's laws, but I would make sure that you read the laws of your state and not rely on word of mouth about what the law is. People often rely on what somebody said the law is instead of researching the facts. I guess I am happy to see that, despite the negative stereotypes of the South, I live in a Southern State that actually has reasonable and well written laws about these issues.

Here is the exceptions portion of our Mandatory Seat Belt Law:

"(c) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) A driver or occupant with a medical or physical condition that prevents appropriate restraint by a safety belt or with a professionally certified mental phobia against the wearing of vehicle restraints;
(2) A motor vehicle operated by a rural letter carrier of the United States Postal Service while performing duties as a rural letter carrier and a motor vehicle operated by a newspaper delivery person while actually engaged in delivery of newspapers along the person's specified route;
(3) A driver or passenger frequently stopping and leaving the vehicle or delivering property from the vehicle if the speed of the vehicle between stops does not exceed 20 miles per hour;
(4) Any vehicle registered and licensed as a property carrying vehicle in accordance with G.S. 20 88, while being used for agricultural or commercial purposes; or
[color:"blue"] (5) A motor vehicle not required to be equipped with seat safety belts under federal law."
[/color]

Here is a portion of our Child Restraint Statute:

"b) The provisions of this section shall not apply: (i) to ambulances or other emergency vehicles; (ii) when the child's personal needs are being attended to; (iii) if all seating positions equipped with child passenger restraint systems or seat belts are occupied; [color:"blue"] or (iv) to vehicles which are not required by federal law or regulation to be equipped with seat belts." [/color]

In NC, the laws were written to allow those vehicles which were manufactured before Federal Law required installation of seat belts to continue to be operated without the seat belts of child restraint devices.

i am glad that North Carolina writes the laws so you can understand them.and i never would say anything bad about the south[born there] <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> i didnt get a copy of the law for kids in the car but i'm sure nysdmv would have read that too for me.

Dave once more Its all vech manufactured 1965 and newer I dont have a copy of the restrant law. but mchenson is right on target.If you like send me a fax # and I will send you a copy of the inspection rule.Man we opened a can of worms.

I was a licensed inspector in NY for a good many years, including after the passage of the mandatory use laws. NY law requires installation of seatbelts for model year 65 for driver and front seat outboard passenger. I can't remember off the top of my head the date for front shoulder belts, I think it was M-Y 70. belts in all seating positions the same year. There was no requirement to retrofit belts in 64 or older vehicles. As lawsuit happy as the people of NY are, and with the support they get from the socialists in the legal system, I sure wouldn't install any safety equipment in a car in NY other than replacing what was designed and originally installed by the manufacturer. The liability exposure would be way too high for my comfort.

I use seatbelts in all of my vehicles that are equipped with them. My antiques that are not equipped see extremely limited use. That being said, I think that it is wrong for the heavy hand of government to mandate seatbelt use, helmet use on motorcycles, etc. I also think that if you do not use proper safety equipment, and are injured or killed because of it, too bad! chlorene for the gene pool. No matter how hard the government tries, they are not very good at outlawing stupidity.
Wait until 2012 when NHTSA will require automatic stability control on all cars sold in the US. Do you want to retrofit that sort of convoluted safety system on your priceless full classic? your $500 winter rat? when will it end?
(I'm kinda glad that I'm on the downhill side of my life, I don't know how I'd be able to handle the socialist crap that we are allowing the political class and lawyers shove down our throats, for our own "safety")in another 40-50 years we will no longer be a free people.

Amen brother! My sentiments, exactly.

Wayne

I drove a '60 Pontiac here in New York as my only car for three years.. got pulled over 5 or 6 times in it, once because the idiot cop couldn't see the stickers (they go on the lower left side of the windshield, which puts them on the side on a wraparound).. never got a seat belt ticket with it, and it never had belts in it. If a cop tickets you for no seat belt in an antique, go to court with data on when the belts were federally required and the inspection rules that don't require them for the car, bring photos of the car showing it passed inspection too - if you want to be a real PITA about it, challenge it so the cop has to come to court and get educated too - any competent judge should throw it out.

During a budget crunch in my old township back in PA the police force had their hours cut severely. Officers who needed Associates Degrees to get a job @ less than 50% over minimum wage were being forced to work 32 hour weeks, many supporting families.

As a result they began to deliberately write tickets that were obviously bogus, the more incompetant the better. The reason was that they fully intended for the people ticketed to challenge the tickets in traffic court. The lousier the ticket, the more likely that they at least didn't penalize someone by writing something that would stick.

The reason this was done was because a traffic court date was a guarenteed 4 hours of overtime for the officer by contract.

If you're being written up or even pulled over for something as bogus as no seatbelts in an antique, it's likely that the police officer is more aware of the absurdity than you are.

It appears that the Province of Ontario still only requires seat belt use where seat belts were origionally provided in the vehicle.

I really thought they would just mandate the use of seatbelts (period), and not consider any of the excemptions as they origionally appeared to be doing ...

*******

Note: On a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor, section 106 is repealed by the Statutes of Ontario, 2006, chapter 25, section 1 and the following substituted:

Seat belts

Seat belt assembly must not be removed or altered

106. (1) No person shall drive on a highway a motor vehicle in which a seat belt assembly required under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada has been removed, rendered partly or wholly inoperative, modified so as to reduce its effectiveness or is not operating properly through lack of maintenance. 2006, c. 25, s. 1.

Use of seat belt assembly by driver

(2) Every person who drives on a highway a motor vehicle in which a seat belt assembly is provided for the driver shall wear the complete seat belt assembly as required by subsection (5). 2006, c. 25, s. 1.

Use of seat belt assembly by passenger

(3) Every person who is at least 16 years old and is a passenger in a motor vehicle on a highway shall,

(a) occupy a seating position for which a seat belt assembly has been provided; and

(b) wear the complete seat belt assembly as required by subsection (5). 2006, c. 25, s. 1.

Driver to ensure young passenger uses seat belt assembly

(4) No person shall drive on a highway a motor vehicle in which there is a passenger who is under 16 years old unless,

(a) that passenger,

(i) occupies a seating position for which a seat belt assembly has been provided, and

(ii) is wearing the complete seat belt assembly as required by subsection (5); or

(b) that passenger is required by the regulations to be secured by a child seating system or child restraint system, and is so secured. 2006, c. 25, s. 1.

How to wear seat belt assembly

(5) A seat belt assembly shall be worn so that,

(a) the pelvic restraint is worn firmly against the body and across the hips;

(b) the torso restraint, if there is one, is worn closely against the body and over the shoulder and across the chest;

(c) the pelvic restraint, and the torso restraint, if there is one, are securely fastened; and

(d) no more than one person is wearing the seat belt assembly at any one time. 2006, c. 25, s. 1.

Exception

(6) Subsections (2) and (3) do not apply to a person,

(a) who is driving a motor vehicle in reverse;

(b) who holds a certificate signed by a legally qualified medical practitioner certifying that the person is,

(i) for the period stated in the certificate, unable for medical reasons to wear a seat belt assembly, or

(ii) because of the person?s size, build or other physical characteristic, unable to wear a seat belt assembly; or

(c) who is actually engaged in work which requires him or her to alight from and re-enter the motor vehicle at frequent intervals and the motor vehicle does not travel at a speed exceeding 40 kilometres per hour. 2006, c. 25, s. 1.

Same

(7) Clause (4) (a) does not apply in respect of a passenger if the passenger holds a certificate signed by a legally qualified medical practitioner certifying that the passenger is,

(a) for the period stated in the certificate, unable for medical reasons to wear a seat belt assembly; or

(b) because of the person?s size, build or other physical characteristic, unable to wear a seat belt assembly. 2006, c. 25, s. 1.

Regulations

(8) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations,

(a) requiring that children or any class of children be secured in child seating systems and child restraint systems in motor vehicles on highways;

(b) prescribing the specifications of child seating systems and child restraint systems, prescribing different child seating systems and child restraint systems for different classes of children, governing the use of such systems, including prescribing the manner in which a child is to be secured in child seating systems and child restraint systems;

(c) prescribing classes of children, based on the age, height or weight of a child or the relationship of a child to the driver or owner of the motor vehicle;

(d) prescribing classes of motor vehicles, drivers and passengers;

(e) exempting from any of the provisions of this section or the regulations made under this section,

(i) any class of motor vehicle,

(ii) any class of driver or passenger, or

(iii) drivers carrying any prescribed class of passenger,

and prescribing conditions for any such exemption;

(f) prescribing circumstances in which drivers, or any class of driver, is exempt from any of the provisions of this section or the regulations made under this section, and prescribing conditions for any such exemption. 2006, c. 25, s. 1.

Note: On a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor, section 106 is amended by the Statutes of Ontario, 2006, chapter 25, section 2 by adding the following subsections:

Police may request passenger?s identification

(8.1) A police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act may request that a passenger in a motor vehicle who appears to be at least 16 years old identify himself or herself if the officer has reason to believe that the passenger is contravening this section or the regulations made under this section. 2006, c. 25, s. 2.

Same

(8.2) A passenger who is requested to identify himself or herself under subsection (8.1) shall give the officer reasonable identification of himself or herself and, for such purposes, giving his or her correct name, date of birth and address is reasonable identification. 2006, c. 25, s. 2.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90h08_e.htm