Despite our best efforts, we're not reaching enough young people to increase our membership. I have just returned from the Syracuse Nationals observing the "other" side....and participating. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I met up with my Oneita Lake counterpart, Paul Beyer, and had dinner one evening. Naturally the club membership problem came up. His region has about 75 members, and Paul is the youngest at 65 (?) years of age. In reading his newsletter, I realized that they have had a lot of activities for their members and suggested he invite all of those 50-60-70's car guys to their garage tours and other events. Paul said they had already done that, even made up little invitation cards to pass around.

Now, Syracuse has a different situation than us in Virginia. New York is filled with Chevy Clubs, Mopar clubs, and many more similar Special Make Clubs to join.

Here in Virginia, there's generally us, AACA, and Rodders. In my mind we're going to have to try and join some more of the rodding circles to lure or trade time for the young people. The Northern Neck Region has been having Cruise-Ins for 2 years now with mixed results. One of our Cruise Sponsors just started advertizing music, and invited "all" to the "car show"(formally our cruise-in date). Attendance has doubled, at the very least. New different cars are showing up. I haven't been enough times to find out about youth attendance yet.

This was my "Commentary" for the month of July! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Comments are appreciated and welcome. Wayne

PS, I'm back in my AACA "Good Wayne" mode. The rodder effect was just temporary. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


BUT WAIT, There's more!!!!

I also ran into another AACA member of good standing in Syracuse and the comment was made between us that the AACA "HAS" to provide more entertainment to keep our large AACA Sponsored shows entertaining. The show in Syracuse was like a carnaval, people everywhere, 1 or more bands providing music at the same time, balloons and junk food goodies everywhere. The main thing about this discussion was that at "3:00pm", NO ONE left the show field. The entertainment and other activities kept the showgoers there until after dark. Therefore, instead of a car show, you have an EVENT! Don't kill the messager! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

21 views and no comments? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Speak your mind people. We need options, the sooner, the better. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

Wayne, it seems like it is forbidden to say AACA and street rod in the same sentence here in NC. Even though I know of several AACA members that OWN street rods. The NC Region show are AACA Classes only, no street rods. Alamance Region has classes for street rods at thier show although there are members that don't like them being there.

Also, the attitude here seems to be if I bring a car to your show I must take home a trophy in most cases. I know a show (show #1)where everyone took home a trophy and another (show #2)where it was all but one person(he didn't want his car judged) took home a trophy. Both shows were claiming using AACA Judging standards. At show #1 all the trophies were 1st place. My question is at what local/regional show have you seen ALL the cars capiable of winning a 1st place award at a AACA National Event. If the cars aren't of that quality, they're simplay handing the awards out like candy and it isn't fair to the person that does have a 390-400 national point car to be getting the same trophy that a car that would place 11 or more points behind it. Enough of this subject.

As for the events, not all areas have events that can be in combination with a car show. Here is Burlington there use to be a Hot Air Bolloon event at the airport. There was room for cars to be displayed but there is no way you could have an open show with 75 or more cars. There is also a carosel festival but there again, the park it is held in is not capable of a show field nor is the area around the park (unless we held the show among the tombstones-largest open area around there in walking distance). More later, co-worker walked in the door with my lunch. (made a Mickey D run)

I know that I will get jumped for this but, AACA judging is headed in the direction of handing out trophies to everyone that puts a car on the field.. There is HPOF, DPC and now there is a movement to get rid on the 10 point rule. Then everyone will get a trophy. Like you said - - -like handing out candy. I think they should make the judging tougher so when a 1st is awarded it will really mean something.
Dan

I can't say this to be fact, but I think most of the cars take home and award of some type as it is now. Granted it might not be a First but with a second or third they still got something. I do know that there are cars that don't take home awards and those that I've judged that didn't take some place award, didn't deserve one. One car I remember, I hate to say it but, I've seen better looking cars of that vintage in junkyards.

As for the 10 point rule:
Some people say that you are competing against other cars for the awards. It depends on how you are looking at it.

You only compete against any other particular car basically three time (not counting Grand national), once for junior once for senior, once for preservation presuming both are excellent cars but come out 11 or more points different.

OR

it is like in school where anyone that got 90 plus on their test got an "A", 80+ got a "B" and 70+ got a "C". The AACA equivalent would be 390+, 380+, and 370+.
HEY, WE can do away with the 10 point spread using those figures. Hey wait minute here! That is a ten point spread. I can see that going over really well when at a show the top car in the class is only a 385 point car and it takes home a 2nd "B".

That is why the current system works. It is just like is school when the teacher gave a test and everyone did poorly and he/she graded it on a curve. Took that top test score and made it a hundred, anything with in ten points was an "A". Well at a meet if the top car in the class was 385, anything within ten points (375) got a 15 point credit making them 400 to 390. Then the next car gets enough credit to make it 389 and anyone within 10 points of that car's original score also get the same amount.

sounds like we have some whiney grade schoolers at the meet, wanting to get rid of the grading curve. The thing which might be the only reason they get to the next grade.

Dan, I tend to agree but I also think what we have is probably about the fairest we can do unless we were to hire and train judges to go to every meet so that the same people would be looking at the cars at every meet. If you, Howard and I were to judge one car in all categories, I doubt we would all have the same score for that car. But I'd be willing to bet we'd probably be within 10 to 15 points depending on the car (The poorer the condition, the larger the point spread). Also at a national meets were you have cars coming from several hundred miles, I can see multiple awards. At Local shows where most often the farthest distance driver came 1 or 2 hours away, no, I can't see it. Single place awards should be fine. But we are in a society were we have to pacify everyone because we might hurt their feelings.

David, We shouldn't have to pacify everyone with awards. They shouldn't expect it and we shouldn't have to bow down to their level, about like giving your kids everything they want. But, our region has had a little of those feelings recently, to the point that we got into a heated discussion about having no judging or participant judging at our annual meets last year. We lost a few members over that debacle. Personally, I pushed hard to keep AACA type judging criteria for our show. My point being, we should mimic the National Meets somewhat so local people can learn how things are done Nationally and what to expect if you compete. My friends across the aisle wanted everyone to have more fun, and I suspect they didn't want to judge anymore if they ever did judge. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I always wondered why you can't have it both ways.

The Northern Neck Region is also somewhat involved in a local show that does have participant judging and seems to be successful at it. But, they also have airplanes(real ones), exotic cars, rods, and anything else you want to bring, if you pay the man at the door. That's about all I can say about it, as I have never been there yet. The show is not put on by an AACA Region.

Dan bringing up the 10 point judging spread brings me back to the youth mentality. I don't think they would want to have to deal with that. Remember, for the most part their longest attention span is when the TV is on, or the video games are being played. But, kids do like carnavals, just check any county fair across our country this time of year. Is this atmosphere possible to duplicate alongside our strict judged shows? I can't answer that.

One thing I'm sure of, with the newer cars coming into our timeline, we will see more foreign cars and we all know how kids love "riceburners"! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Did I really say that. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> A friend of mind from Philadelphia didn't know what that word meant when I mentioned it last week. Another of my "neaderthal" words, I guess.

Oh, Dan! Don't worry about speaking your mind. It's still a free country, last I heard. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

Wayne,

Are you saying that we need to have a carnaval at national meets so the young folks can be entertained? What does that have to do with the 10 point rule for AACA national meet judging?

Dan

I don't think we need to have a carnaval at national meets but with the local meets I think sometimes it helps if it is in conjunction with another local event. My feeling is that some people will say oh there is a car show in town today... and not go. But it there was some other activity that draws them into the area they'll stop by and check out the cars. That's when we as owners and members need to engage them in converation and try to get them interested. Let know they don't have to have a car to join but just the interest and use the AACA magazine as a selling point for the membership.

I have a friend that is invovled with a large show that is also a DFer, I'll try to get him over here to tell us what they do. I use to belong to that region but my infromation would be 18 years old since I moved from the area.

my thoughts jumped track in that last post.

To my first paragraph I should have added, if we get people interested on a local level then things hopefully would pick up at national meets as the newer people start buy and/or bringing out thier cars.

That's right David. I think it would have to begin at the local level.

Dan, I'm not saying I know the answers, but I do know that the 10 point spread or anything else that complicates a situation isn't going to draw people that know nothing about it, like the younger people we need to target. Somewhere along the line, we as a group, need to bend a little in the direction of the more successful shows around the country. When I say successful, I'm talking about 3000 to 5000 cars! I guess I'm asking a lot, but you have to start somewhere. Big successful shows don't happen because those fellows are sitting around hoping someone will come look at their automobiles.

Now, the big question is how bad do we want to grow, or do we want to ever get that big?

Wayne

Hey Wayne, the point in your original post is interesting and something that should be of interest to anyone organizing old car activities. We need to be in touch with how the public perceives us and if we are going to just sit around looking at each others cars it becomes a very narrowly focused activity. The public in many instances tends to view AACA as a show/judging operation as a result, and that can certainly have an impact on our recruiting efforts among all age groups. Of course we have many tours to balance the schedule, but the public does not often see the cars on tour because there is no gathering point except at the hotel in the evening. Some of the most enjoyable meets Ive ever attended have had some additional activities to keep participants and spectators around. It doesnt need to be a carnival, but a band playing quietly in the background, roving barbershop quartet, etc might help. Ive seen a group from Maryland assemble a Model T from a pile of parts and drive it away in just a few minutes - that really drew some crowds. Sue and I attend a lot of British car shows and there is always a bag-pipe band, a variety of foods, and interesting vendors aside from just car parts. The cars are the stars but I personally think you are right that we do need to offer something additional at our events.
Terry

Terry, When the Founders Tour was in Rochester, NY, one of the evenings we ended up parading through a town. As we rolled through If i remeber correctly, someone was annoucing what each of the cars were. You are right inthe fact that we tend to gather only at the site we are visiting and the hotel. I'm not shure how you could get future tour chairpeople to incoroperate somethin l;ike that into the tour. Maybe "crash" one of the local cruise night gatherings

Please pardon any error in my message, I'm on my Mac in stead of the PC and this thing hasn't learned to type yet

Noveman sent me a note to point out where this conversation was hiding and ask me to give a little info on how our show is setup.

Much is like every other AACA regional show I'm sure but here are a few things that work. It hasn't solved all the problems and are size is down from 10 years ago to but we do draw a good crowd of spectators on a nice Sunday.

Free admission to public, amazing the families that come for an inexpensive day out.

Grassy town park no hot pavement.

All food vendors are local charitable groups, we have everything from a full service Masons food tent to churches doing strawberry shortcake and scouts selling pies and funnel cake. It helps the community and draws a lot of people in that work the booths are active in those organizations and hang around. This completely fills a row between the show and flea market.

We have tried things like climbing walls and such but they were of mixed success.

General flea market so the women and kids can have fun looking to.

Trophies for all AACA National Winners, no judging of these cars. They also get a spot light area to be displayed. This usually brings out a nice row of Winners.

To increase attendance of older cars we leave all cars older 1931 in free. This has worked well. I have been pushing to move the free line up each year by a few years or jump to 1948-1950 range.

Low pre-registration $5 and $8 day of the show. I would like to see this even cheaper.

We pay for the trophies with sponsors and have a large display area with each sponsor having a sign plus getting their name announced.

Judging is strictly participant choice, each person that entries gets a sheet for one class to judge (not theirs). We do have two modified classes and they judge each other but not their own class.

The two modified classes are Street Rod to 1948 and Street Machine 1949-1980 this year.

Club Member cars are in a class together and are not judged (and are shown free), we feel that those that bring their cars are our guests and we should not compete with them.

We also have some special awards that different people select, marque awards, president, town supervisor, etc.

Unique trophies, we have never given out generic trophies.

The rest is probably pretty boiler plate, dash plaques drawings etc.

Is that what you had in mind Dave?

I attend a lot of British shows as well (it'll be at least 3 this year, one 3 days ago). Watch the crowd at one, it'll tell you right away what's keeping "young people" out of the AACA.

There are two factions at Brit shows. For want of better terms I'll call them the Jaguar faction and the MG faction, although thye're not broken down strictly by marque. There's a certain percentage of each in each marque's section which varies more as a function of vehicle performance than of vehicle value.

The Jaguar faction is a polish and present crowd, frequently sporting trailered cars, plaid blankets, whicker baskets, and a lot of talk about which garage can get the best turnaround time on major repairs. If the cars are being attended to at all they're being detailed for the show, often long after judging is complete.

The MG faction is an action crowd. All these cars were driven here unless race-preped, and very few are being detailed for the show inspite of obvious need on the part of some. No 2 cars have the same tires, about 1/2 sport mild modifications (safety equipment, ANSA exhaust, and Weber carbs chiefly), and the owners spend a lot of time talking about how fast they perform major repairs.

Each faction respects and coexists with the other. Originality is prized, but not above enjoyment (however major modifications/customizing which destroys the integrity or "Britishness" of the car is more deeply frowned on than any street rod at an AACA event). Individual owners will vacilate from one faction to the other from year to year as the mood suits them, often gravitating towards the Jaguar faction with age, but never to the derision of the other.

I don't think I have to tell you which group is the predominantly younger faction. There is a real reason for that that is being ignored here in all the talk of carnivals and judging procedures.

Most young people (I believe) don't want a hobby car that is only really good to them for one or two (show) days a year. The Jaguar faction on Monday after the event is left with a car in a trailer or garage that can't be touched without being diminished in some way. They probably just want to watch Matlock and rest up anyway. The MG faction you can [email]d@mn[/email] well bet is out enjoying their car every Monday they can. The guys in my local Triumph club drive their cars more than any antique group I've ever seen, and the average age among them is probably less than 45!

This is the same rationale that street rodders use to ruin perfectly good antiques, by the way. 9 out of 10 people you'll meet at any swap meet would agree (which is why so few real parts are at swap meets any more!).

I'm in the AACA because the DPC provided a middle ground for enjoying basically authentic cars without treating them like Ming vases. I originally left the AACA in the early 1990's because it wasn't really doing that then. If you're going to attract "young people", you're going to do it through DRIVING, [color:\\"red\\"]not shows[/color].


Tour, tour, tour, tour, tour. And then maybe tour a little more. While you're at it advertise those tours like they were the biggest shows you've ever had. Eventually it will work.

Thanks Jim. Yes, that's what I had in mind.

Dave, you made some good points there. I think we (AACA) tend to be closed door to the public reguarding perticapation with the exception of region and chapter shows. Even then, in some regions it is it still closed door to the public. For example, NC Region Spring and Fall meets, you have to be preregistered just like you were going to a national meet.

Also I think most regions and chapters don't really advertise they are having a tour somewhere and invite the public to join them.

I tend to agree, that today's youth are more go than show but they are still proud of thier ride and will sometimes show.

Oh one more thing I forgot.

The last few years we have given a youngest driver award to the youngest person showing a car at the show.

Some good ideas, Jim. Thanks! Wayne

One thing the we do 'out west' here in NC is have a car Display-not a show in the since of having trophies (none given), but Main Street in downtown Hendersonville is shut down, & only real criteria for entering the show is the vehicle is 25 & older. Hardly a car is trailered to it, yet we regularly draw well over 200 vehicles. Registration is cheap (around $12 preregistered, 15 day of show). Who cares if the car isn't perfect, just being there is the fun of it. Maybe more should try it once a year like we do.

Just curious, where does the money go? You charge people to show their cars
and there are no trophies? Why do they do that?

We?re always wondering why the younger guys are not involved in our hobby. This story is good news on that front.

Two 25 Year Olds Win 2005 Greatrace
Greg Cunningham and Sam Geoppinger of Ponca City, OK won the 2005 Great Race in
a 1928 Model A Ford Speedster. They won the 4250 mile event and led all but the first day. They even blew an engine and stayed up all night changing it to stay in the competition. Cunningham was originally introduced to the Race in the X-Cup division for high school students at age 18. He caught the old car bug and now runs a restoration shop with Goeppinger in Ponca City , OK. When a race fan congratulated the pair for beating up on these old farts, Cunningham replied ?These old Farts inspired us?.
Maybe we should all inspire a few younger guys, it?s healthy for us and the hobby. It?s also good to hear a Model A Ford in the right young hands can win such a grueling event.
At NSRA events they have a special class for under 21 Street Rodders, maybe we should have a special class for under 40! (think about that, a 1965 birthdate makes them younger than the newer collectible cars in AACA) I also like the idea of making all Pre- W.W. II cars free (and not judged) at old car shows to keep them coming. We all need a reason to get the oldies out without being
critiqued.
Paul Dobbin (10 year Greatrace Veteran, AACA, VMCCA, EFV8CA, NSRA, Pin-MAR)
In Florida it's a 12 month old car season! Drive them or sell them!
1934 Ford V8 Fordor (Glidden Tour car)
1935 Ford V8 Pickup (to haul stuff)
1935 Buick Sedan (Resto-Rod with A/C)
1966 VW (Founders Tour Car)
1970 Honda Trail 70 (just for fun)
1979 GMC Caballero (to haul stuff with A/C)

Got to weigh in on this one. I go to shows, sometimes with my car and sometimes not, and though hardly "young" at 53, I'm always surprised at how the club-member "geezers" scarcely a decade older will sit around in their separate little enclaves and disdain any civil conversation with me and my peers. There are exceptions, for which I'm grateful indeed -- but it seems unless you're retired, grey and a military vet, you're not "in the club", and they'll sure let you know it.

I was to a show this weekend and the youngest driver award was given to a 35 year old. I probably was next at 39.

being that im in highschool i talk with my peers all the time obviously, and to some i have mentioned my old buick, and many find it interesting, i guess because im a fellow student and ill certainly bring it to school once its driveable.

not much, but i thought it was worth mentioning. just trying my best to "do my part". i do very much agree, many young people, ESPECIALLY my age do not apreciate old, esp pre-war cars at all. they want speed and effortlessness. i think im a rare kind, but that doesnt mean theres nothing i can do to make it less rare.

Zonda,

You may be rare kind.. but don't fret as you are not alone. I know someone that completely restored his beautiful Model A Ford by himself a few years back when he was 17 and still drives it and active in a club. I also know several 15-16 year olds that are working on restoring their old cars even though they can't drive yet. Several AACA regions across the US have very active youth programs within their regions. Don't be ashamed of your old Buick. Be proud of your old car and never let peer pressure let you forget how much you like old cars. Good luck with the Buick!