Some of us had a chat the other day about the 1957 prototype "Black Bess" and it's backyard made clone "Black Bess II". I found the pictures sent to me by the guy who made the clone and scanned them, but first, here's a shot of the Packard "Black Bess":

Here's the hand made nose blade & hood (66 Cad & 58 Edsel combo) of "Black Bess II": <p>[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: Craig LV ]

Here's the hand made tail of "Black Bess II":

Here's the roughly finished body rolled out. According to the constructor, the roof is mostly 58 Chevy. The replicar was started sometime before 1986 and completed enough by 1999 to take to the Centennial in Warren, OH. He's building another, better one now based upon actual Packard blueprints he got somewhere. Gotta give the guy credit!<BR> <P>[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: Craig LV ]<p>[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: Craig LV ]

Craig, That's a very interesting project and you're right you gotta give the guy credit. Thanks for posting those shots.

Neat shots, Craig.

I first read about the Black Bess clone in a letter (by its creator) to the editor in an issue of Cars & Parts. Missed it at the centennial, but I did see it at the Perrysburg meet just prior. I did not know that this project had started back in 1986, but it is clear that its creator has a lot of time invested. My understanding is that he had to start over at one point. As I looked over the car from front to rear, it seemed as though it began to stray quite a bit from the original. The interior had more of a sixties look to it - more of a Studebaker or AMC flavor. Yet, with only that one shot of the car, it is has to be a hard car to replicate. Granted, the original Black Bess was rather primitive, but if this guy now has better working drawings to go by, I hope he can take the clone to the level of the original and maybe even beyond - to a more finished version of what Packard might have been able to show the public if things had worked out a bit differently back in 1956.

BH: very interesting commentary, thanks! Here's a shot of the "open perimeter tube-type frame" that our constructor duplicated from the 1957 blueprints. This is for "Black Bess III", if you will, but as yet unnamed by the constructor. It was build in 2000 according to the letter I got from him in Feb 2001. Since this guy has also constructed replicas of horseless carriaiges (1903 Overland, 1896 Stearns, etc), and his letter came on a letterhead stating "Antique Auto Repair", he's really into this stuff!

One quote from his letter of Feb 2001 says alot [about the Warren Meet]: "...One guy that gave me a really rough time was found to be sitting in the car photographing it at 6AM. Then he was seen to be sitting behind the wheel grinning pretending to be driving it..." Ain't that typical.

Black Bess at Warren was pretty rough. It really didn't belong on the show field of the Opus. I should have been there at 6:00 AM. It was too hot the rest of the day.

Dfield: I can't entirely agree<BR>with your statement. I have a friend in Minn. who feels the same way, but he is a body and fender man and he looks at the "Black Bess" as an abomination.<BR>If you look at the Magnum Opus as a grand car show or a concourse then your right it did not belong. However use the simpler definition of the term Magnus Opus I.E. Great composition of works in numerical order, then it fits perfectly. I for one would much rather have seen it than heard about it being done. Given the time the man had to work on it, and what he had to work from, my hat goes off to him, and I hope he finishes it.<BR>No one really knows what Packard had in mind at the time so I guess this guys rendition and interrpretation is as good as anybodys.

Yes, Black Bess II (the clone) was awfully rough around the edges, and I can't say that I was happy with the "finished" product as prsented. Aside from some problems with the body lines, I thought the interior was rather spartan. (Then again, I was lucky enough to see some Avanti-inspired Studebaker prototypes and they were pretty bland inside, too.)<P>However, I do give this guy credit for his time and effort (for both research and physical labor) and the tenacity to tackle another version. I doubt if I could have done any beter in the same time frame.<P>Mind you, there is desktop computer software available these days that allows panel beaters to create more accurate 3-dimensional "bucks" from multiple camera angles of a part, but I believe that kind of work is typically reserved for prewar classics and duplicating rare custom coachwork (i.e. - big budget projects). Plus, I only know of one photo of the original Black Bess - presented here by Craig.

Craig, that's a nice shot of the tube frame. <P>The front crossmember seems to follow along the lines of what Ford was already doing around '56/'57, but the side rails look more like what GM would end up with years later. <P>I always wondered when Packard would be able to get rid of the bulky X-member. It gave the car a lot of strength, but it is also one of several reason why the cars rode so tall in the saddle.<P>I had read somewhere there was a major revision planned for the layout of the T-L susupension, and the perimeter frame might fit in with that theory.<P>I hope this guy organizes his working drawings and research to be presented with the car when it makes its debut at shows.

Ok....so where do most agree that the original example went? I've heard stories of it being cut, yet then I've read of other 'prototype' cars being rediscovered in Detriot salvage yards every so often. Is there any historical documentation to support claims of either variety?

Yes, I know of the Detroit salvage yard situation first hand from my brother, whose best friend graduated with him from Conneaut Ohio High School, and went to Detroit to work for GM> He nosed around salvage yards in the weekends, and Mr. LeTouri (incorrect spelling) found this stash of cars that were saved, but were supposed to have been destroyed in the 1950's. He contacted the gentleman who collects and restores these cars, and the transaction was completed.<BR>Some have already beenrestored, while at the last I heard, others were awaiting restoration. I was able to see some of the 1950's show cars at the Western Reserve Museum in Cleveland Ohio a half dozen years ago.

Kevin - <P>I tend to side with the story (in conjunction with the Dick teague anecdote) as documented in the AQ book, which has it that Black Bess was cut up. <P>As evidenced by the photo Craig supplied, the original Black Bess really was a "mule" - not a finished show car like the Packard Predictor (which was retained in South Bend as part of Studebakers Historical Collection - until the museum got it) or the Packard Request (which curiously surfaced many years later in the Oregon area).