Guess I'll start the ball rolling - this may cover areas in addition to legislation tho-but its a topic Ive not seen before on the DF. Today while driving to a local shopping center, I came up behind a "replica" of a '40 or so Willys coupe. Mag wheels, fat tires, chopped, lowered, tubbed, flame paint job, etc. etc. in fact Im not even sure it was a replica of a 40' Willys - but Im certain it was at least a coupe. Now the catch - it had ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE license tags from North Carolina on it. Im in Virginia and see plenty of abuse here, in fact street rod guys even have their own special license tag available but seem not to use them, preferring to go with the Antique Auto Tag instead, probably because it exempts them from state inspection, etc. I am not familiar with the NC laws on license plates. This problem seems to boil down to the clerk at the Motor Vehicle Registration office who tend to just accept whatever people put on the registration forms without question. I wonder how some of those T-bucket roadsters get buy with calling themselves a Model T??? Now please don't mistake my grumbling as a put-down for street rodders, I certainly appreciate the craftsmanship, but lets hear how you, your club, your car club councils, your Dept of Motor Vehicles, or Legislators have dealt with this problem. Is it really up to us individually to police it? There are 50 states out there so there must be at least 50 good ideas on how to prevent such abuse that surely may endanger our ability to continue getting our real antiques properly licensed.<BR>Terry

California dodges the issue of abuse of antique auto tags in a very easy way: Such tags are considered "vanity tags" (actually the are "environmental tags" because, in theory, the funds raised are dedicated to environmental portions of the state budget).<P>In any case, it costs more to put antique or Year of Manufacture tags on a car than to put regular series tags. So you only do if if you want to dress up your car and are willing to pay for it.<P>Since all the normal registration fees are paid, the State does not mind how you drive the car. (Your insurance company might [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )

I'm moving from PA to OH this month. Does anyone know what OH rules and fees are for their "Historic" and Year of Manufacture plates?

Does anyone know the statis of the California (1963)Black plate legislation to let it be used as a Y.O.M. plate? Has Gov Kill-O-Watt signed it or did he veto it? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

COMPACTBC,<BR> The California Black Plate Bill AB834, was approved by the Senate on Aug.20 by a margin of 76-0. The bill is now ready to move forward for the Governors approval. As usual, a FAX or a letter helps grease the skids.<BR> Tom

Hey Terry. We had a similar discussion on the BCA BB a while back. Pennsylvania controls the use of Classic and Antique tags by requiring photos of the car to be submited to the State Police as a part of the registration. This ensures that the car is not modified, and has been restored at least to road worthiness condition (as defined by PA). <P>They now also permit YOM plates on the front, but only if you carry antique or classic tags on the BACK.<P>Inspections for all of PA is annual now, but I've noticed, travelling back there with my daily driver and my 1997 inspection sticker, that the police have more to worry about than inspection stickers with all of the other violators to choose from.<P>I saw a 74 Chevy pickup on Independence Blvd, with a modified wooden back and souped up engine and tires, carrying antique VA plates. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

I don't know if there is any way to prevent someone from registering a hot rod using the original date of their car's manufacture.<BR>The only thing the DMV sees is the make, model, color and year of the auto being registered.<BR>For example, if someone takes a 1924 Model T Ford and puts a V-8 engine in it and continues to "rod" the car, he can still technically call it a 1924 Ford Model T. You and I both know it isn't, but the DMV rep doesn't. By the way, I live in New York State.<BR>Roger [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

And who is harmed?<BR>Nobody.

As of Sept 2001 we have been allowed to use year of manafacture plates here in Ontario Canada not quite sure of the costs as yet. I under stand you have to send the MOT your plate & copy of ownership and they will check for approvial first then send a letter back with the plates.

I am just now noticing this topic and thought I'd put in my two cents.<P>Some of you guys really scare me. Personally, I prefer stock unmodified cars, but what's the problem with using historic/antique/YOM plates on a "modified" car? <P>Doesn&#8217;t a guy with a 50 Mercury lead sled or 32 Deuce coupe have as much right to proudly use a YOM/antique plate as the guys with a 100-point stock restorations?? I say YES!! <P>Maybe the rules governing historic/antique/YOM are different in your states. Here in Michigan, you qualify if the car is over 25 years old. Period. <P>The caveat is that both the "historical vehicle" and YOM plates are restricted to type of use. They are for car functions only and the intent is to prevent use of the car as a daily driver. (Similar to typical &#8220;old car&#8221; insurance policies.) Drive it to work everyday and you risk getting a ticket.<P>The point is, here in Michigan it doesn't matter if your car is a show car, a project car, a street rod, or whatever. As long as it's TITLED as a 25 year old (or older) car/truck it qualifies for Historic or YOM plates. <P>I&#8217;ve seen customs and street rods that are so heavily modified they are not recognizable to me, but if they are TITLED as something older than 25 years of age, then they are eligible for Historic/YOM Michigan plates. <P>And what&#8217;s wrong with this? Nothing. It&#8217;s the way it should be. Anything else is CENSORSHIP by discriminating against a vehicle based on the owner&#8217;s tastes. The idea of having to show pictures of the car (or &#8220;prove&#8221; it&#8217;s stock) is deeply disturbing to me. Where does it stop next? What if the Motor Vehicle clerk doesn&#8217;t like my car?

Greg,<P>The only problem with using YOM or antique plates on a modified car that I can see is that, in my opinion, there tends to be a great deal more abuse of the system from people using these limited use registrations on street rods. I've seen an awful lot of Crager SS equipped "antiques" out grocery shopping and in employee parking lots, something that you'll see with authentic antiques far less often. <P>When someone uses the system to get cheap plates or insurance for a car that is an occasional or daily driver, or to avoid emission testing (for reasons real or imagined), it makes it that much harder for the rest of us to be taken seriously by the public at large.<P>PA's special plates for "Street Rods" have minimized this type of abuse, largely by being status symbols among the orange engine block crowd. It suprises me that more states haven't done this.

Dave,<BR>Shame on you, too! I suppose those guys that have those "evil" custom wheels and non-original equipment on their old cars are more likely to speed, or run stop signs too!<P>This is "automotive profiling" at its worst. If you guys see a primered 67 Camaro with mags and "classic" plates at the 7-11 store, you probably assume he's abusing the rules of "classic" plates by taking his car shopping. However, if you see a mint 36 Packard at the same 7-11, I'll bet you assume he's stopping for a Slurpee on the way back from a car show or parade event.<P>The answer to the abuse problem is enforcement of that particular state's rules regarding use of these special plates. Restricting WHO gets them, based on the type of car is essentially censorship. That is flat out wrong.<P>(If the speed limit is routinely broken, the answer is not to limit the sale of "fast" cars, but to enforce the existing laws, right?)<P>By the way, as the owner of a cherry (100% stock) 66 Caprice with the original orange 327, I'll try not to take offense at your comment about the "orange engine block crowd". [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

As an Illinois street rodder,I take some offense to the original comment.In Illinois the antique plate is issued (at the owners request)to "any" vehicle that is 25 years old or older.A replica is also in this group.The plate is much cheaper,but limits your driving to shows,maintenance,etc.It is NOT for everyday driving,but does not limit optional equipment. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

Terry, I don't understand what the problem is. If a '32 three window is bone stock, or modified it is still recognized as a '32 three window. I think you would enjoy a long trip in the modified rather than the stocker. Personally I find "antique" plates odd on post 1942 vehicles here in Connecticut. They look terribly out of place on 1970's station wagons that the local house painters use as work vehicles.

I think the point Terry is making and 1937hd45 proves is that people are abusing the "Antique" tag in some states. Here in NJ, Antique vehicles are exempt from inspection. But the state defines that as a "stock, unmodified" vehicle. They will not allow Street Rods to carry antique plates. But once again the point is that in other states people are using the plates to skirt inspection, emission laws or safety laws and that is wrong. Any escalating abuse of the system like that will result in it being taken away from all. And here is a thought: Do you really want that $5.50/hr. DMV employee testing the brakes on YOUR 36 Packard?

Because I?m an old car buff myself, I don?t believe that I need to tell most of the members of AACA that the laws in most states in the United States make it quite difficult, if not impossible, to re-title old cars that no longer have titles. I need your help to remedy that problem.<P>I am a legislator for the state of Wyoming, big in area and small in population, and trying to develop legislation to make it easier to title such (classic, antique, street rod, special interest, specially constructed, reconstructed, or remanufactured) vehicles. With the help of other car buffs across the nation, maybe we can develop model legislation to be used in all states as well as Wyoming. Most legislators in the United States belong to state legislator?s associations that exchange model laws to possibly implement in their state.<P>While I do have access to the statutes in various other states, I would like your help in gathering the good parts of the laws in other states in order to develop the best legislation. I have selected statutes from Colorado, Iowa, Utah, Illinois, Arizona, and Washington. If your members could e-mail or mail me other laws or suggestions for legislation, I would greatly appreciate it.<P>Thanks for your help<P>Representative Pat Childers<BR>26 Equine Dr.<BR>Cody, WY 82414<BR>e-mail: childers@house.wyoming.com<BR>phone: 307-587-5145

I have just finished reading Terry's message on ABUSE of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE license plates for about the 10th time and i'm irritated to say the least.<BR> I totally agree with 70 Electra, What is the PROBLEM???? <BR> Please re-read his last paragraph of his first response. I happen to own a 39 Nash which has a 74 chev engine and automatic trans, the car is now 62 and the engine is 27 years old. I think that says its an Antique Vehicle. Now the catch- it has YOM plates on it. I use this vehicle in the same manner in which you use yours and therefore i should have same right to use these plate as you have. I can use the Street Rod plate, However these plates are no different than using normal plate just an additional fee, or i can use the ANTIQUE PLATES(black or the new yellow). My hobby is Antique autos and Antique motorcycles, i just happen to like modern conviences in my ANTIQUE AUTO. How does this say ABUSE???<BR> You seem to be putting street rodders down, but if you think about it, street rodders are why the old car hobby is flourishing. I think if you survey the Antique Automotive Suppliers, you'll probably find Street rodders are a majority of the buyers.<BR> "WORK WITH US, NOT AGAINST US"<P> Bennie Howard <BR> AACA #414918<BR> AMCA #8025<BR> NSRA #039966<BR> KKOA #0628<BR> PSRA member<BR> TRAACA member <BR> [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

Hey Bennie, I really dont understand your post - are you defending abuse of licensing laws? Are you trying to justify your choice in how you tag your car? <P>VA does have a year of manufacture plate registration - you can do it two ways, first you can use it to drive everyday, provided you get your car inspected annually and comply with all the other legalaties involved. Its treated just the same as a personalized tag. Or, you can put the YOM tag on a PROPERLY registered antique auto - and that exempts you from the annual inspection, property taxes, etc. The laws are avaiable on the internet if you search the Va legislative website. We've periodically passed them out at club meetings and published them in our club newsletter also. These are benefits enjoyed (and fought hard for) by a lot of hobbiests in our state, and we all should be concerned about those who abuse the system and place our benefit at risk as a consequence. <P>As you said, Work with us, not against us,- by setting a proper example. When you are out on the highway you represent the old car hobby, and one letter of complaint from a citizen can snowball and undo a lot of good. <P>You were not a member of our club when we worked so hard with the other Virginia AACA Regions, car club councils, and the Street Rod clubs to eliminate personal property tax, reduce driving restrictions, etc. You can be proud of AACA having taken the lead through the Virginia Old Dominion Meet Association. <P>Please dont try to drag me into a discussion about antique vs street rod. I love em all. Terry

I guess that this one of the RARE times that California has made a law that appears to be more favorable to the car collector hobby. As long as you give the California DMV the extra $$$$ they don't care how you use your car and if the car is old enough (1973 or older)you don't have to smog it and they don't inspect any car to get the license renewed. I guess it's all about MONEY AND CONTROL, like so many of the numerous laws that our wonderful politicians like to pass every year when they get together. We are losing more of our freedoms every year. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: COMPACTBC ]

Thanks Bruce, thats an example of how keeping it simple can be very positive for everyone. Hey, just noticed my earlier post was as an "unregistered user." Obviously not the case, guess I just forgot to log-in. E-mail me at home when you have a chance, lets talk about trying to get a few more national activities scheduled out your way! Terry

Bruce,<BR> Sorry, I didn't understand your post. Are you talking about Historical Vehicle Plates, YOM Plates, Regular Issue Plates or something else?<P> Tom

By the sound of it Bruce is talking about the YOM plates. In California these are pretty much the same as vanity plates: There is simply an extra fee above and beyond what "regular" plate would cost. Since there are no special privileges, there are no special restrictions.<P>At Tom points out, California also has some specialty plates for historic cars. These plates do have some privileges and thus some restrictions on use. In particular, I you want to keep your horseless carriage original and do not want to add a windshield (required for all cars otherwise), you will want to register the car with the "horseless carriage" tags described in section 5004 of the motor vehicle code. But then you will be restricted: The vehicle can only "operated or moved over the highway primarily for the purpose of historical exhibition or other similar purpose".

Thanks Tod,<BR> I had no knowledge of what restrictions (if any) there might have been. Your description of YOM is right on target. The ca.gov websites are in a form that is incompatible with web tv, which is all is use for internet access. Pending legislative summaries are accessible but Bill or Lesislation text is not. <P> Thanks Again, Tom

Tom,<P>The <a href="http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=veh&codebody=">California Motor Vehicle Code</a> is on the web. Won't WebTV access that site?<P>Tod

Tod,<P> Thanks Again! The Ca Vehicle Code is now stored in my "favorites" for quick access. I was referring to Senate/Assembly et al site that wouldn't allow me to read the text of the Bills and Legislation.<BR> Tom<p>[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Deering ]