It is very quiet here on the Judging Forum - so here goes - there was a recent ad in the Cushman Club magazine for a three wheeled Cushman electric. Now - at a national meet, would this vehicle be in Class 5-E for "motor<BR>scooters and other 2 or 3 wheeled vehicles<BR>with small diameter wheels" or in Class 4 for<BR>"electric vehicles through 1975?"

Rick,<P>A electric vehicle "IS" a electric vehicle.<BR>However class 5e. is "ALL" motor scooters and other 2 or 3 wheeled ~ ect,ect. Interesting problem. I can think of as many reasons to say Class 4 as I can Class 5e.<P>Being new to Cushmans and only ever doing one, I was not aware of electrics. I guess I just didn't get that far into them yet.<P>Rick

I am only using my imagination from what was in the ad, but I would think this is a small one or two person vehicle that would have been used in an industrial setting to perhaps go from one end of a plant to another - or something like that. I saw something similar in Hershey this past fall - but do not know if it was gas or electric.

Rick,<P>Don't forget to get an extra long extension cord with it.<P>Dan

I could be like the guy on the pizza commercial who has the big roll of cord on the back of the truck - so he can deliver pizza hot out of the oven - he runs out of cord and there goes the stove and the rear of the truck!

Rick, <P>Do you know what years Cushman made electrics?<P>Rick

Don't let the street car run over your cord.<BR> <P>Seriously though, I would put my money on Class 4, electric vehicles.<P>HV

I really do not know the period of time that Cushman was putting out these vehicles. From the looks of the one I saw at Hershey, I would have to think it was from the late 50's or early 60's. I actually was going to buy the thing - he wanted $ 550.00 - but he sold it before I could get back to him (I was contemplating all the grief I would get from the wife - she thinks 6 cars and four scooters are enough - can you imagine that!) The one that was advertised said it operated on 24 volt electrics.

Since yesterday's post I have been thinking more about the classification of this Cushman. Years ago in the deep dark history of AACA judging I seem to recall a ruling, decision, solution or what have you regarding classification of vehicles which fit into more than one class. At that time, as I recall, it was decided to put the vehicle in the FIRST class on the list of classes into which that particular vehicle would fit. That is the basis for my first conclusion. Now it could also qualify in 5e since it is an "other 3 wheeled vehicle with small diameter wheels". <P>Please take my opinions as being worth what you paid for them, since I have been off of the judging committee and out of judging leadership positions for a number of years now. However, if asked I would argue for class 4.

If I had this vehicle, I would certainly prefer it in Class 4. At some meets, there would be little, if any, competition. I did notice that Class 1b provides for gas and electric (for those type vehicles). I have seen an electric Auto Red Bug (or something very similar) in this class before.

OK Guys, Seems Rick Lay is the only one reading the Judging Manual. This vehicle should be in Class 1b. Gas and electric powered mini-vehicles. Been on tour for 7 days, so would have answered sooner.

Ron,<P>Actually, Howard and I knew that all along. We were just holding a prolong conversation with Rick Lay and wondering if you were going to catch this when you got back. <BR>Right Howard?

Rick, Ron et. al.,<P>Thanks for the out Rick, and I did think along those lines for a while. Then the more I thought about what constitutes a "mini vehicle" the more I felt a Cushman didn't fit into that category. 1B says [i.e Auto Red Bugs and Smith motor Wheels. I felt, and still feel that Cushman isn't one of those. Using my recollection of "first class it fits" would put it into 1b, but first you must convince me it fits the definition of a 1b vehicle.<P>I'm not stubborn and am willing to change my opinion. Convince me!<P>Ron, I did read the manual and that's why I have a problem. <P>Why don't we ask the judging committee for an opinion on this, but provide them with all of our positions to date? Could be interesting as well as worthwhile. Have the answer BEFORE one of those things shows up at a meet.<P> HV

Good idea to bring before the Judging Committee at next meeting. Here's the considerations I used to narrow the decision to 1b.<P>1. Originally the class 1 (before a and b were added) included 3-wheeler, buckboards, cyclevehicles, minivehicles, etc.<P>2. It was split to put the minivehicles in a separate class and add the electric option, but failed to mention 3-wheel. Since it is an outgrowth of the old class 1, it should also include the 3-wheel items.<P>3. We violate "first class it fits" rule (this was before my time so don't remember the discussion) with 3 wheel motorcycles (5a-5c), 3 wheel motorized bicycles (5d - Smith and Briggs Stratton and Wall) and scooters (5e).<P>4. There is a precedent for Class 4 with the 3 wheel Custer owned by Dave Berg, but that went through the system prior to the existance of 1b.

Ron, <P>With regard to your point #4. Years ago when we created class 29, there had been a '47 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 shown in 19e. Nevertheless, we moved that car into class 29 after its creation in about 1980. If we are going by precedents, then Dave's vehicle should be moved to its NOW proper class.<P>HV

Alas, I can accept no accolades for mentioning Class 1b - actually, I was thinking that perhaps Class 5e should include electrics - as Class 1b does.

I agree with Howard - it is hard for me to think of a 3-wheeled Cushman in Class 1b. When I try to think of a modern (1975 or earlier) example which would fit here, I think of my electric 4-wheeled go cart I had as an 8 year old in 1963. It was basically a modern version of the Auto Red Bug. It was sold by Western Auto and ran off a 12 volt auto battery. I wish I still had it!