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Tri-Shield Centers?


toomuchvinyl

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Hi All! I'm new to Riviera ownership having purchased my '64 in October. It's a very nice and very original car with just 73,000 miles on it. My question (probably only the first of many to come) is in regard to the wire wheel covers on my car. I cannot claim that they are original to the vehicle since I have no way of knowing but mine have Tri-Shield centers in the spinners instead of Riviera logo's. I think I'd like to continue with these as it is how the car came to me. They are all faded so I would like to replace them. Does anyone know what applications these were used on or where I might find replacements?

Thanks!

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Nice looker you've got there judging by the mini picture (interesting internet name, by the way).

Your wire wheels are a from a 63, the difference being the trishield emblem. The 64 got the "R" script. I do believe the 64 emblems are reproduced. Quite sure the 63's are not. If yours are merely faded they can be hand polished with auto body compound and polish. If they clean up with no cracks/defects you are in luck.They often have tracing cracks (almost like automatic ice maker ice)or more apparant, heavier cracks. With a dremel tool from behind the spinner (they're both glued and clamped in place with diecast tabs) and a little imagination they can be made quite presentable.

Have fun, Steve

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Thanks for the info Steve. I am feeling more certain that the wheel covers are original to the car. Even though the car is a '64 there is at least one other anomaly that seems to indicate it's an early production car. I've seen information that says leather upholstry was not offered in '64 but this car has Saddle colored leather interior. Oh, and the name refers to my other hobby which is vintage stereo. My wife walks past my record rack shaking her head and muttering "Too much vinyl".

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I've got a set of both - Silver on black tri-shields for a 63, and the Riviera R on the black back ground for a 64. As Dick said, the red/wht/blu trishields came on everything else with 15" wheels as an option; but NO Rivieras had red/wht/blu tri-shields (except the hood ornament on a 63.) I'm going to be listing those along with some other things on ebay in a couple of weeks so look for them.

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Wow, I was unable to check this thread since my last post. I have to say I'm very pleased to get this information. My remark about the Centers being "faded" has been answered by Dick and Ed who pointed out that the shields are silver. I just figured that they'd be red, white and blue and the sun had faded the colors. Man I'm glad I joined ROA and this Forum! Anyway thanks to all of you who have weighed in on this question and as I said, I've got a good deal more to learn.

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Phil,

The covers you're looking for were very common so you shouldn't have any problems finding a set.

You may or may not know this, but in 1964, the Buick Rally wheel was introduced on the Wildcat; it wasn't available on any other Buick, including the Riviera. In 1965, you could get them on the Wildcat and the Riviera. Rally wheels would look really good on your Wildcat. One note though, they have their own center cap.

You'll find these for sale often on eBay.

Ed

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I know, Rally wheels would be my first choice but I wasn't able to find the correct 1965 wheels (only year for this design). I do have two 1965 Wildcat center caps in case I find a set!

I also have a set of 4 1966-70 Wildcat center caps I could use with a set of 1967 1/2-70 chrome wheels I also have but they wouldn't be correct on my '65.

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Phil

I don't know where you got the information about 1965 wheels being "one of a kind," but if I were you, I'd do some more research on them. I think that the wheels from 64 - 70 were all about the same except for the center caps.

I going to recap some info on wheels that was first posted by Leonard Scott in Sep/Oct issue of the Riview. He states that all wheels 64 - 70 are basically the same - in other words, they look the same when on the car. A measurement of 3-1/2" from a straight edge laid across the rim to the highest part of the hole for the wheel stud will tell you it's from the 64 - 70 era. 64/65 rims have a 2" center hole, and 66-70 rims have a 2-1/8" (2-3/16") center hole. Depending on which wheels you have and which medallions you have, you might have to enlarge the hole in the center of the hub to make your medallions work, or you could have the small medallions and the larger center hole; a spacer of some kind would be necessary for that application. If the wheels you have have the retaining ring in the back of the hub and won't fit over the hub on your spindle, you can knock out the retaining ring with a cold chisle without hurting the integrity of the wheel. I did that when I put rally wheels on my '63.

Don't use the later 71 and up wheels on your 65. These later wheels measure 2-7/8" from the straight edge to the lug hole. They don't provide the proper backspacing you need and they definately look different.

The painted "inserts" on the 64-65 wheels is really a dark charcoal. The paint that The Eastwood company sells with their Rally Wheel Restoration kit is a dead ringer for the correct dark charcoal used on the 64-65 wheels. A little #0000 steel wool, some SOS pads, a can of paint and some masking tape, and you'd have yourself a great looking set of wheels.

I think that you can make what you have work fine, the wheels you have with the 66 center caps would look at least as good as the wrong wheel covers. Just keep you eyes open for a couple of more of the correct center caps. When you find them, you'll be in business.

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Ed, as you said, my '68 wheels would fit but even painted in the correct color (they are currently black), they wouldn't look correct as they have a different shape to clear the 4 piston calipers on the cars with the disc brakes. I do have one 1967 wheel from a parts car with drum brakes that would look correct if repainted to a lighter charcoal color (the 66-67 were a bit darker than the 1965 wheels) but the chrome plating is very dull and I'd still have to do something to fit the '65 center cap in the 2 1/8" hole. And I'd also have to find 4 other wheels like that...

I'd be happy with a set of 1964 Wildcat wheels as they are the same as 1965 wheels less the centering rings (which aren't really needed anyway). They are not painted the same color as the '65 wheels (a bit lighter again) but that's not a problem. The problem is that I haven't found a set of 1964 wheels either!

Here are pictures of my '67 disc brake wheels, (note that a part of the black webs is convex rather than concave as it is on the 1964-67 wheels). The shape has been modified to clear the 4 piston calipers. These wheels were available from January 1967 on full size Buicks with disc brakes but they became the only ones available in 1968-70 on all full size Buicks. The other set of wheels I have is identical to my '67 wheels.

1967rivierawheelfordiscrz5.jpg

1967rivierawheelcv0.jpg

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Philippe,

I wonder how many other Buick folks are in your situation, having the wrong wheels for their cars? I wonder if a new thread might be in order, one that would deal with trading what you have for something that someone else needs and vice versa? Just a thought.

Ed,

Tom Mooney and I walked around at the BCA National in Rochester this past summer and noted some very distinct differences in the bead area of the 64-70 road wheels. Probably not a huge deal as long as all four wheels match!

Tim McCluskey

ROA 9686

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I think that you can make what you have work fine, the wheels you have with the 66 center caps would look at least as good as the wrong wheel covers.</div></div>

Ed, by the way, the wheelcovers I have are dog dish caps that were on a 1965 LeSabre. I still have the correct 1965 Wildcat wheelcovers (7 of them) but these do not hold well they were constantly falling (every week!). I often had to search for them in the dark on the side of highway exits and once there was one that eneded on the sidewalk just beside a pedestrian after having missed by a few inches a car parked on the street... So after I have tried (with no success) to make them fit tight enough to avoid loosing them in curves, I decided I'd replace them with small hubcaps. Not that I like their look but at least, they are 1965 caps and they hold there well! Maybe some 1965 Riviera owners have the same problem as I do as they came with the same standard wheelcovers as Wildcats did (save for the plastic insert), I saw someone at a local show that arrived with a 1965 Riv last year and noticed he had a missing wheelcover. He opened his trunk, got the missing wheelcover and reinstalled it on the wheel. I asked him if it ever happened before and he said: "a few times"!

Here's a picture of my Wildcat with the correct wheelcovers

0000340dz5.th.jpg

Now with incorrect 1971 wire wheelcovers that look a bit like the 1965 wire wheelcovers:

0000257uq5.th.jpg

And with the 1965 LeSabre hubcaps.

0001142tz3.th.jpg

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Phil,

The rally wheels look in the pictures look like the 71-78 vintage to me. In the article I read, the description of the wheels - Rally II-DB - said the only difference was on the back side to allow for the disc brakes. Then in 71, the wheel was redesigned to accomodate the disk brakes by changing the backspacing. To mount this later wheel on the early brake drums, you need a spacer. That's another reason that I think the wheels you have are late model ones. I have an article from a Riview that tells you how to decode the stamping numbers on the wheels. If you're interested, I can scan them and email them to you directly, I'll need your email address for that. Keep your eyes open for a set of 64/65 or 66/70 wheels that have the correct back spacing. You won't need to use spacers to make them fit. If I remember correctly, Rich Romanowski is reproducing wheel centers for Wildcat Rally wheels. I'll have to do some research on that.

Ed

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Philippe,

What Tom and I found was differences in the depth of the grove that is inboard of the bead area and also we saw some differences in the radius where the wheel center transitions to the bead area. Tom and I kind of joked about this and wondered who, other than us two, would ever care about these types of differences that would be all but invisible to 90% of Riviera and Buick owners! I just wish I would have taken some pictures!

Take Care,

Tim

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Guest Riviera66

Philippe is totally correct in his identification of his wheels. '64 and '65 are one style (2" center); well, you have one with centering ring and one without so maybe that's 2 styles too, lol, '66 and most of '67 is a second style (2 1/8" hole, but same shape and 'look' to wheel), mid-67 to '70 a third style (less dishing to the wheel, obvious space created for caliper clearance), and then '71 to '78 a 4th style(2" center). The '71 and up are easy to tell... the nose of the wheel hits the ground when laid flat. The 71 to 78 wheel actually 'looks' more like the look of the '64-67 wheel. '66 wheels all have a prominent "X" stamped on the edge of the center hole... to avoid mixups with earlier ones when these were new and the two diameter caps were in common use.

Only minor correction I see in Philippe's comment is that the phase in of '67 to '70 style all occurred in model year '67. Early in '67 you couldn't buy chrome wheels and disc brakes. Then the chrome wheels came out for disc brakes. And if you ordered disc brakes with chrome wheels you got new style wheels and if you didn't order disc brakes you got 'old' style chrome wheels. By the end of the model year (at least by early May), whether you ordered disc brakes or not, you got the 'new' style chrome wheel. The 'old' style all had charcoal paint in the pockets. The 'new' style (late '67 to '70) are all semi-gloss black, as are the '71 on style.

Darwin Falk

1966-70 ROA Technical Advisor

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Phil,

The rally wheels look in the pictures look like the 71-78 vintage to me. In the article I read, the description of the wheels - Rally II-DB - said the only difference was on the back side to allow for the disc brakes. Then in 71, the wheel was redesigned to accomodate the disk brakes by changing the backspacing. To mount this later wheel on the early brake drums, you need a spacer. That's another reason that I think the wheels you have are late model ones. I have an article from a Riview that tells you how to decode the stamping numbers on the wheels. If you're interested, I can scan them and email them to you directly, I'll need your email address for that. Keep your eyes open for a set of 64/65 or 66/70 wheels that have the correct back spacing. You won't need to use spacers to make them fit. If I remember correctly, Rich Romanowski is reproducing wheel centers for Wildcat Rally wheels. I'll have to do some research on that.

Ed </div></div>

Ed, the pictures I sent are those of my 1967 Riviera's wheels. They are the correct ones for my car. I have many rally wheels and studied them a lot!

The shape of the webs was made convex to clear the huge 4 piston calipers used in the 1967-69 full size Buicks. They were also used on all the 1968-70 models with drum or disc brakes.

On my car, because it has 4 piston calipers, it's impossible to mount the earlier (1964-67) or the later 1971-87 wheels because both models have concave webs.

The change in the backspacing in the 1971 wheels was not to accomodate disc brakes as the newer single piston sliding calipers didn't require convex webs.

The reason was changes in the front suspension and a 2" larger rear axle.

The 1971 wheels had 1/2" more backspacing which resulted in narrowing the increase of the track to 1" instead of 2" (because of the 2" larger axle).

The change in the backspacing made the center part of the wheel extend above the rim so the 1971 and newer wheels, when laying on a flat surface with the valve side down, will lay on the tube in the center rather than on the rim like the 1964-70 wheels. The shape of the tube also changed as it narrowed at it's base and became more cylindric than the 1964-70 tube which had a cone shape.

About the Wildcat center caps, I have bought reproduction parts from Mitch Romanowski in the past (the center inserts and the springs) for my former 1968 Wildcat. Unfortunately, he doesn't reproduce the 1965 Wildcat hubcaps at the moment. However, it's possible to cut the plastic inserts in the standard 1965 hubcaps as they have the exact same dimention as the rally wheel center caps have. Then, using 1971 or newer center caps and retaining springs would make an almost correct 1965 center cap reproduction. I say "almost" because the 1965 springs are a bit different from the 1971 springs and the 1965 ans 1971 chrome caps also have very subtle casting differences (when you look very closely!).

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Phil, Darwin, et al.

From what I've learned from you and after reading the old articles by Leonard Scott and Sean Keegan, I think there is a need for the wheel identification issue to be addressed again in an article in the Riview. It takes some information from both articles, along with Phil's and Darwin's articles to have it all make sense now.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

By the end of the model year (at least by early May), whether you ordered disc brakes or not, you got the 'new' style chrome wheel. The 'old' style all had charcoal paint in the pockets. The 'new' style (late '67 to '70) are all semi-gloss black, as are the '71 on style.

Darwin Falk

1966-70 ROA Technical Advisor </div></div>

Interesting

I didn't know that!

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