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Transmission Conversions!


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#1 R W Burgess

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:59 AM

From Rich Fox,

I was looking at the Packard forum and saw something about adapting other transmissions to Packard engines. Surfing the web is not something I do a lot, so I didn't know how to post a reply. And so these pictures show that I bolted a Ford Top Loader to the Packard V8 that I have. I am using the Ford throwout bearing and arm. It is an easy conversion. I sent some pictures to Craig Henderson, who I contacted from the forum. I also bought one of his 455 Olds oil pump adapter, and sold him a new old stock Packard flywheel.

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#2 R W Burgess

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 01:01 AM

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#3 R W Burgess

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 01:03 AM

Ain't this pretty, Thanks Rich!

Wayne


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#4 R W Burgess

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 01:05 AM

I'm trying to get Rich logged onto the forum. He just wrote back to me;

If they are of interest, that would be fine. The Ford bolt pattern fit the Packard. I turned the bearing retainer down .115 to fit the Packard bellhousing. I also made a sleeve to install the Ford pilot bushing, made and located the small angle to use as a Ford throwout arm fulcrum, and opened the hole slightly to clear the Ford throwout arm. The pilot bushing needed to be set flush due to the length of the Ford input shaft.

#5 PackardV8

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 02:02 AM

When he gets logged on:
What kind of distributor is that ??? Are those weber carbs?? Is the top loader Ford trans an O.D. trans???? What is that belt driven thing on the front of the engine???

#6 JT

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 02:52 AM

Very nice job Rich. Look forward to you getting on the forum. Thanks to you and Wayne for posting the very interesting pictures.

#7 bernardi

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 03:35 AM

I suspect that I'm one among many awaiting all the details of "how it works" in a running car. The more we learn, the more we want to learn. Any chance you will be furnishing parts or plans, Rich?
Bernardi

#8 Jack_Vines

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 06:06 PM

Hi, Rich,

Great to have you on this forum. I have enjoyed our personal conversations, but it is time for you to share with the world the first Packard V8 to run at Bonneville in nearly 50 years.

So far, I haven't had any trouble finding Packard throwout bearings, but your adaptation will be good to have as a reference if needed.

1. Thought everyone here knew the Borg-Warner T-85, as used in the 1955-56 Packard V8 and 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk, was the progenitor of the Borg-Warner T-10 4-speed Ford used and that Ford kept the same bolt pattern when they developed their own Toploader transmission.
2. The '62-65.5 Ford T-10 and Toploaders will bolt onto the Packard V8 and have the same bolt pattern and front bearing retainer diameter.
3. In '65.5 Ford widened the bolt pattern, but most late Toploader transmissions are also drilled for the early pattern.
4. In '65.5, Ford increased the diameter of the front bearing retainer, but the Borg-Warner and early Ford bearing retainers bolt on to the later transmission. The late bearing retainer can be turned down to fit, as Rich did.
5. There were also two different gear ratio versions: close ratio: with a 2.32 first gear, which would be better for performance camshafts, and the wide ratio 2.78 first gear, is better for street use.
6. There were at least three different Toploader tailshaft housing lengths. The early versions were the longest and would be best for interchange with the Packard. The short tailshaft versions would be best for the Studebaker Golden Hawk.
7. Hurst still makes their floorshift conversion for the Toploader and it is much superior to Ford's OEM linkage. Be sure to get a pickup truck version to get a sufficiently long shifter handle.

thnx, jv.

#9 R W Burgess

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 03:42 PM

Jack, could you or Rich tell me something about the RPM's of this Packard engine(Bonneville). I've been following some of the techinical posts on the Packard V8 and understand the long stroke/slow rpm of the original engine.

If this engine is turning over 6000rpm, what was changed in the valve train area to make this happen?

Thanks,
Wayne

#10 RichFox

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 04:33 PM

As far as my engine goes, I have not had it running yet so I really can't give any real information. The 3.5 inch stroke is not that long, the small ports and less than robust casting of the main bearing/lifter valley area makes me think that 6000rpm is about the top. I have installed stainless steel valves with smaller diameter stems and better modern valve springs to do what i can there. The valve pockets and ports were ground out, maybe to much. If anything bad happens here I think I'll cut up that head and send it and two 374 heads to a profesinal porter. Jack Vines kindly sold me an Isky 505C cam .505 lift 320 degrees, which I and Dema Elgin feel it way to optomistic for a Packard, so Dema is regrinding it for less duration. I expect to run the car on the salt flats in Sept. at the World Of Speed meet, Speed Week in Aug. having become to big for me.

#11 R W Burgess

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 05:22 PM

Keep us posted on this Rick. I nice picture of the "racer" would be neat too. <img src="http://forums.aaca.o...mlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

#12 RichFox

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 05:25 PM

Also the change to mechanical lifters, combined with the open intake and exhaust manifolds should make a big difference. I will start with a 2.75 to 1 gear ratio and a 33 inch tall tire. This may be too much for the engine to pull. Time will tell. I would post picture of the Vega and the roadster if I knew how.

#13 Jack_Vines

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 09:30 PM

Hi, R. W.,

Actually, by contemporary racing engine standards, the 3.5" stroke Packard V8 is a SHORT stroke engine. The Packard V8 max RPM is not limited by the length of the stroke or the strength of the cast steel crank, rather by the weight of the valve train. The intake valves are 2" diameter, 3/8" stem, 5.7" long and heavier than the hubs of hell. The large diameter valve springs and steel retainers are heavy themselves. The pushrods are also 10.5" long and commensurately heavy. It takes lots of valve spring pressure to control all that weight at higher RPMs.

My contribution was to provide one of my Iskenderian 505C cams for Rich to have Deema Elgin regrind for his. When he decides on the best profile, I am hoping Deema will regrind my other cam to the same spec. Exciting times for the Packard V8.

thnx, jv.

#14 mrpushbutton

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 06:05 PM

Rich F-a very good friend of mine (he's like my second Father) is a retired camshaft/valvetrain engineer who worked in the Chevrolet engine design studio from 1960-1990. He designed many of the cams in the 60's small block/big block muscle cars, and has worked as a consultant to the big three (including their racing labs), racing companies, Diesel mfgrs, boat engines--you name it. You can tell him what you want; X amount of torque at Y rpm and he can hit it on the head. I talked to him and asked how much $$ would be involved in having him spec out a hot Packard V-8 cam (he's familiar with my car)-- he said that a simple spec out would be about $600, plus the cost of having the stock cam analyzed (about $150) and the cost of having a new cam ground. Interested? I can put you in touch with him. Maybe a few V-8 guys would like to get together on this and split the cost.
John

The real pity in America is that the people who really know how to run the country are all tending bar and cutting hair--George Burns

#15 Packard8

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 06:54 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi, R. W.,

Actually, by contemporary racing engine standards, the 3.5" stroke Packard V8 is a SHORT stroke engine. The Packard V8 max RPM is not limited by the length of the stroke or the strength of the cast steel crank, rather by the weight of the valve train. The intake valves are 2" diameter, 3/8" stem, 5.7" long and heavier than the hubs of hell. The large diameter valve springs and steel retainers are heavy themselves. The pushrods are also 10.5" long and commensurately heavy. It takes lots of valve spring pressure to control all that weight at higher RPMs.

My contribution was to provide one of my Iskenderian 505C cams for Rich to have Deema Elgin regrind for his. When he decides on the best profile, I am hoping Deema will regrind my other cam to the same spec. Exciting times for the Packard V8.

thnx, jv. </div></div>

CalCams in Oakland CA used to have one or 2 profiles available for the Packard V8...Isky "street" and "3/4 race" as I recall, but it has been a few years...might be worth giving them a call. IIRC, they charged me $125 for the Isky re-grind about 10 years ago.
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#16 PackardV8

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 07:35 PM

Mr PB. U have a private message.

#17 mrpushbutton

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:56 AM

got it, V-8
John

The real pity in America is that the people who really know how to run the country are all tending bar and cutting hair--George Burns

#18 RichFox

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 03:54 PM

My cam is a reground Isky 505C. It was profiled and welded and ground by Dema Elgin in Redwood City, Ca. for $313 including refinishing the lifters and "parkerizing" them. The lift is now .508 and it has 268.5 degrees @ .050. The intake has a 108 degree centers and the exhaust is at 112. Dema can be reached at 650-364-2187 or found ar www.ELGINCAMS.COM Dema can supply a cam blank, but that will cost plenty more. Jack Vines kindly sold me the one I used and you will have to find your own. Stock cams don't have much material to work with.

#19 RichFox

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 04:39 PM

I should mention that Dema is a friend of mine and I recomend him, but if you have your own cam grinder and don't want to deal with Dema, I have bought cam blanks from Joe Panak, also a good guy, of Torrance, Ca. 310-325-8844.

#20 RichFox

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 08:58 PM

At last all the big parts are in one piece and It's ready to go in the car.

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