The Phoenix Rising - Disasters tend to happen in 3's

[F12MAC]

BARRY HAVE FOLLOWED YOUR PROJECT WITH GREAT INTEREST SORRY ABOT THE DISASTER,I DO BELIEVE

YOU SHOULD HAVE SWAY CONTROL ARMS USE TWO,HOWEVER I NOTICE IN THE PICTURE OF YOUR HITCH

INSTALLED IN THE TRAILER TONGUE THERE IS NOT ANY CASTER ON THE RECIVER,HITCHES OF THIS TYPE

CAN BE SET UP TO HAVE CASTER SO THAT THE TRAILER WILL LEAD AS IN THE STEERING ON A CAR,

ALSO WHEN THE RECIVER IS INSTALLED IN THE HITCH HOW MUCH FURTHER INTO THE HITCH WITHOUT THE PIN

INSTALLED WILL IT GO,IF IT WILL GO MORE REDRILL THE PIN HOLE, YOU WANT THE BALL AS CLOSE TO THE BUMPER AS POSSIBLE LEAVEING ROOM FOR TURNING 1 TO 2 INCHES WILL MAKE A DIFFERNCE.YOUR TOW

VEHICLE IS GOOD NOT MANY TRUCK WOULD KEEP THE REAR END PLANTED ENOUGH TO HAVE THE RECIEVER

BEND 20 DEGREES THAT IS A LARGE FORCE WHEN A TRAILER SWINGS. LASTLY AT 45 MPH I DONT

THINK THE TRAILER SHOULD HAVE FISHTAILED.FISHTAILING OR SWAY REALY MEANS THE TRAILER IS

GOING FASTER THAN THE TOW VEHICLE THAT IS WHY YOU ARE TOLD PEDAL[GAS] TO WOOD TO BRING A TRAILER

UNDER CONTROL JUST A COUPLE OF THOUGHTS THANKS PETE

[Packard8]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Friartuck, I don't run a sway control. The hitch I got for my '76 GMC (bought used) had the tab but no ball. Been passed by semis and have passed them with no sway problems. Might be the advantage of an open trailer. Even towing with my old trucks 76' GMC and '80 something Dodge, both with 6' boxes, the trailer towed like a dream. </div></div>

My 24? Stidham enclosed trailer is also a box frame and has the same Valley WD hitch as Barry?s trailer (mine is welded to the frame). It came with the friction sway control bar and I used to hook it up, but have found that there is no sway if I don?t. I?ve towed approx 40K miles with this trailer in all types of terrain and weather first using a Ford F350 and now a Dodge 3500 and have NEVER had a problem with sway or trailer control (even with a few blow-outs on the trailer tires @ 70 MPH). I?m sure the Hensley is a nice hitch, but I can?t see shelling out $3000 when the one I have is doing the job perfectly well.

I?m sure that when Barry gets back on the road with the hitch welded to the frame and the weight distribution dialed in he will be fine.

[Barry Wolk]

Your last comment intrigues me. You say to accelerate out of a sway. I was told that the most effective way to bring a trailer under control is to apply the trailer brakes to drag the tow vehicle straight. Which is it?

In fact, I did apply the brakes and the pair did snap fairly straight. I see your point, too.

[F12MAC]

WHAT IS FASTER? FOOT TO FLOOR,REACH DOWN BY STEERING COLUMN AND PUSH BUTTON

[novaman]

F12MAC, On discussion fourms, all capitals is considered yelling. Since you're new here (at least to the posting part) I figured you might not know. Welcome to the forum. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[novaman]

I had 450 lbs on the gate over the hitch and only dropped the rear 3/4". 200 lbs dropped it 1/2". I'll have to find more weight to drop it to the 1-1/8" mark which was the height difference with the car on the trailer and no weight distrib.

[Bob Giles]

I can offer no opinions, but would like to ask a question, I have a Reese load leveling hitch with 600 lb. bars. I went over a bridge with a pretty good change in elevation. The chain stripped the "U" bolt out of the bar. Since that happened, I don't pre-load the bars quite as much. My question is, what is the proper pre-load?

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Bob...

As you know, I haul a 2450# TR6 in a 16' enclosed trailer. Bought a "tongue weight scale" from Camping World at the time I bought the trailer. Use a Reese anti-sway bar system with a 2.75 dia. ball hitch.

First, I hooked up the trailer, then, drove the car into it. Placed a cinderblock below the trailer tonque. Unhooked the truck. Lowered the tonque onto the tonque weight scale. Moved the car a few times back and forth until the scale read 600#.

Then, marked off on the trailer bed for the proper location of 2 steel wheel chocks. Bolted the chocks to the trailer floor. Hence, every time I load the car, I know it is in proper weight ratio balance.

When using the anti-sway bars/load leveling bars, remember that they make the tow vehicle and the trailer into "one unit". (Only problem I ever encountered with the load leveling bars is driving over a dip, such as leaving a parking lot and driving over a drainage depression...a few times I had to switch to 4 WD as the rear tires lost traction.

(Let me know if you want to try the scale...I could UPS it to you...)

Regards,

Peter. (Say hello to Patty)

[CarlLaFong]

Post deleted by Peter J Heizmann

[Barry Wolk]

You seemed to have missed the sentence that started "It was". Thanks for contributing.

[novaman]

just checked Camping World's website and they don't list the scales there.

Peter, How did you determine the 600lbs target weight?

After hooking up the weight equalizer hitch, how much of that weight gets transferred to the vehicle's front wheels and/or the trailer's rear wheels?

Long long time ago I was taught that sitting still on flat ground, you're rear bumper should should squat a little and not be lower than 1" from unloaded hieght. A general range of 1/2" to an 1" drop.

[Friartuck]

Found this scale on the Web and thought it might help.

http://www.sherline.com/lm.htm

Also read some of his stories, similar circumstances! I think we're all learning something here.

[Barry Wolk]

Just ordered one. It will certainly take the guesswork out of trailer loading.

[novaman]

They have good towing guide with the step by step to figuring out the wieght and a worksheet to do all the caluations.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, David...

Bought my Sherline Scale quite a few years ago. It is in a Camping World box. Maybe they don't carry them any longer, or, I put it into a Camping World box for storage. Really don't recall...It has a weight maximum of 2,000#. Sherline can be contacted directly: Sherline Products, Inc., 3235 Executive Ridge, Vista, CA 92083 (Ph: 800-541-0735)

How did I determine the 600# tongue weight. Kept moving the car until the scale measured 600#, marked the trailer floor for the Wheel Chocks to be located, thus, every time I put the car into the trailer, it is right on the mark.

I do not know exactly how much weight gets transferred to the tow and trailer wheels. But, I do know that the current weight ratio has worked very well for over 12,000 towing miles.

The truck drops 3/4" when the trailer is hooked up. Also, I installed load leveler snubbers on the rear axle of the truck. This helps greatly when weight is in, or, hooked to the truck. I hauled a 977 # machine fixture and the truck went down only 1/2". The snubber bolts to the frame in-line with the axle housing below. The rubber snubbers will rest upon the housing after 1/2" of sag.

Peter. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Barry Wolk]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi, David...

Bought my Sherline Scale quite a few years ago. It is in a Camping World box. Maybe they don't carry them any longer, or, I put it into a Camping World box for storage. Really don't recall...It has a weight maximum of 2,000#. Sherline can be contacted directly: Sherline Products, Inc., 3235 Executive Ridge, Vista, CA 92083 (Ph: 800-541-0735)

How did I determine the 600# tongue weight. Kept moving the car until the scale measured 600#, marked the trailer floor for the Wheel Chocks to be located, thus, every time I put the car into the trailer, it is right on the mark.

I do not know exactly how much weight gets transferred to the tow and trailer wheels. But, I do know that the current weight ratio has worked very well for over 12,000 towing miles.

The truck drops 3/4" when the trailer is hooked up. Also, I installed load leveler snubbers on the rear axle of the truck. This helps greatly when weight is in, or, hooked to the truck. I hauled a 977 # machine fixture and the truck went down only 1/2". The snubber bolts to the frame in-line with the axle housing below. The rubber snubbers will rest upon the housing after 1/2" of sag.

Peter. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> </div></div>

Hi Peter,

I think he's asking how you came up with 600# as a proper target tongue weight.

FYI, I watched as the trailer left it's weight on my tow vehicle and the bumper dropped about 2". This is how I balanced it for the trip. I used the air suspension to level the trailer without the Porsche. I put the Porsche in about midway. The nose didn't lift. I gradually moved the car to the rear and the nose still didn't lift. I stood behind the car, with my near 300 lb mass and the trailer bobbed on its front lifts. I moved the car forward about 18" and wouldn't bob it at all. This produced enough tongue weight to drop the rear bumper about 2". The truck was setting a little high in the rear as we had removed all the tools and supplies from all the bins and boxes on the F-450. Maybe that 2" of movement might have been deceiving.

I would agree that once the car came loose it was all over. I was going to cross tie the load but I got expert advice that said I didn't need it. This guy transports million dollar cars all the time. He tied the car down himself, using the same staps he uses on Duesenbergs. I positioned the car, he didn't. If it was too far back, then that part was my fault.

You can certainly see a pattern on the floor of the trailer where the car swung to the drivers side but was stopped by the restraints. The driver's side of the car suffered no damage. The insurance adjustor showed me where likely damage would have occured had the car made contact, and there wasn't any. The floor marks are much longer on the passenger side and there are two sets of slide marks, side to side. That kind of tells me that the car stayed tied down until we hit the guardrail. The inertia of the impact drove the Porsche to the passenger side so hard that it pulled the restraint right out of the E-track. I wasn't terribly impressed with its performance either. The front tire impacted the wheel trailer' solid wheel wells and bent the suspension to a point where it doesn't move.

The car rolled forward and scraped the inside of the trailer pushing it out by about 6". The impact wracked the rear opening and ramp system. It appears to have broken about 10 wall studs, too. The front of the trailer is slightly wracked, but looks repairable.

The insurance adjuster, luckily, is a pilot and immediately recognized that the trailer body is airplane technology, and needed to be treated as such. I admitted that some of the repairs were beyond my skill levels and I would have to call in help. He said I had every right to have it put back the way it was, and he thought that I shouldn't have to do the work. I didn't mind hearing that. The only problem is that the skills needed to repair it are located at airports and the closest airport is a half hour away. I suggested that the mechanic work in my space, which would allow me to finish the project while it was being repaired. He cautioned me that airframe repair moves at the speed of mud.

He estimated the damages to the trailer at $50-$80,000. I almost fell over.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Barry...

Sorry, guys. Forgot to mention how I arrived at the 600# tongue weight.

Nothing really scientific. You will receive a booklet with the scale, which, I assume, is pretty much what you read on Sherline's website. It has a calculation forumula on the last page. Went to my trailer today, and, the booklet has my tabulations that were made in 2002.

Basically, Sherline, and, in my case, Southwestern Trailer advised tonque weight of 10-12% of the trailer's G.V.W., so, that's what I did and it works well for me.

Again, in my case, I have only the TR6 so I never change anything with the set up. Where the scale will be more useful, is, folks that tow "various" vehicles with the same trailer. I can envision it coming into good use for safety.

My scale has been loaned out to friend's more than I ever used it, but, it was a good investment when I first bought the trailer and knew little-to-zip about towing.

Regards,

Peter J...

<img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Barry Wolk]

I did get some good news today. I took my Mark II to my friend Larry's Autometric Collision where his crew went at the scratches with 1000 grit and worked up to 2,000. Turns out that the scratches were in the only part of the car that has a clear coat. When I got my car it was fitted with Derham badges. I had the holes filled and the lower fenders resprayed and clear coated. Now I can show the car at Willistead this Sunday.

[Guest Albert]

I know one place that had a eq type hitch here in canada and they had to recall it for some reasion. I cant see how those bars could drop out if the chain is pulling up on the other end of the bar, that pin should not really have to carry any weight. The one of rease type hitches the top of the load bar is notched, so you install the bar parrallel to the back bumper, the swing it around to the trailer tounge to lock it into place. what make was your eq hitch?

[novaman]

Peter, sorry about the technical questions about this subject. Like I said in a previous post, I was taught the ?look & tape measure" way. Which has done well for me, with the exception of returning from Hershey with Dad's small trailer. (A photo of the setup would explain things easier than I can describe. I'll take photo closer to Hershey time)

Back to my car trailer; As for the feel, I'm sensitive enough to it that in the hurry to work on Monday, I didn?t do my usual walk around the trailer. I pulled out of my driveway; about 100 feet to the intersection, turned left, and went two blocks to the stop sign. Realized something was wrong! Made the right went a couple 100 feet and made a left onto a side street. Got out and fixed the problem. Look at the second photo from my post on the 13th!

Wayne is slippin?. Can diagnose a bad u-joint but can?t tell when someone forgot to latch the coupler from a photo. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[novaman]

Barry, at least one of the incidents turned out to be fairly easy and inexpensive to fix.

On the tiedowns, you said one of them came out of the track. Did it bend or reiceve damage to cause it to come out? Or was it enough load in the right direction it simply slid out?

By the way, I don't cross my rear tiedowns. Two reasons are 1. the distance from the axle to the D-rings is fairly short and 2. the straps want to slide across the axle tube to the center section and there isn't enough tube on the outside of the springs to put them there to help stop them from sliding. At Asheville going though the parking lots, I cutone of the corners too short and ran over one of the curbs. These weren't no small curbs! Car never moved, other than the body voilently bounced. Granted, it didn't go though what your's did.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, David...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Peter, sorry about the technical questions about this subject. </div></div>

Please continue to question this trailering experience subject as it will benefit all of us. I am throwing out my towing set up experiences and maybe I am doing something wrong. Who knows? I welcome any suggestions to max-out safety.

Guaranteed, there is a miriad of trailer subjects in the "Search Function" above.

Let me ask this to all on this thread. How many times have any of "us" arrived at a venue. Say hello to friends!, how was your trip?, etc., and, immediately make statements about the "towing experience" during one's trip.

Let's continue sharing as any tip could save a life.

Of note, tire pressure, too. I personally keep mine at the maximum: "65 p.s.i.". Also, I had the family car, the pickup, and, trailer tires purged and had "nitrogen" injected. Benefit that I have found so far: I drive the pickup an average of 900-1100 miles per week on business. So far, I am impressed with the constant pressure retention over air pressure, and, the improved handling is noticeable.

I recall Howard Scotland making an important comment some years ago: What about the "Receiver Hitch" mounted to the tow vehicle?? Personally, I have checked the underside mounting of the last 2 trucks I owned every time I hook up the trailer. Never know, folks. Those of us residing in the cold weather areas drive the tow vehicle throw all sorts of road/highway treating chemicals--corrosion reality check.

We have bantered this trailer topic many times on the forum over the years. What is alarming, is one has a valued car, yet, the trailer sits for a long time, and, is totally ignored.

Regards,

Peter J... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[R W Burgess]

David, been "feeding the family"(out of town), not slipping. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Takes a lot of time to catch back up. I noticed you have an open trailer too, which doesn't have the draft problem beside tractor-trailers like an enclosed trailer would.

Thanks for taking up the slack for me.

Wayne

[steele]

Hi,

I have been reading this thread with interest. I know a fellow who was using a Reese Dual Cam HP Sway Control and experience a loss of control like Barry did (the driver hear a snap and the trailer fishtailed and the driver lost control). I'm wondering if any of you have hear of trouble with this type of sway control. It's the one with the cams. I'm wondering if there have been many of these types of incidents.

Sincerely,

J Steele

[R W Burgess]

Bringing this thread to the top. This kind of accident is something we all need to avoid.

Wayne