fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 It was announced in the Holiday issue of the "Rummage Box" that there would be a new "Drivers' Class" at all National Meets EXCEPT the Fall Meet at Hershey. A fellow member, who attended the Annual Meeting in Philly, said he heard rumors that the Drivers' Class WOULD be included in the Hershey Fall Meet.<BR> What are the true facts?<P>------------------<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 The true facts are that we do not know yet. Initially, it was decided that during the first year of the new class, it would not be included at Hershey. This would allow the committee, AACA, and the Hershey Region to obtain data to determine potential impact. At this time the Hershey Region is considering the issue. Please be patient. We all know that this will be a popular class, but we have to have a little experience to determine if the potential impact at Hershey will be doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted March 17, 2001 Author Share Posted March 17, 2001 Thanks Ron!<P>------------------<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Father Ron, you're right! You could end up with 2000+ drivers and no room for restored vehicles. That could be a disaster. People would enter any "qualified driver" just to get a dash plaque and have a parking space. OUCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Today's history lesson:<P>Back in the '80s, all registered vehicles driven onto the showfield at Hershey received a Winross truck. Its value exceeded the cost of the registration fee, so hundreds of "Do Not Judge" vehicles were entered just to get the truck.<P>Finally the total registrations reached about 2200, at least 700+ of which were "Do Not Judge" vehicles, and there was just no space left for more cars.<P>Solution: Stop giving away the Winross trucks to all registered vehicles on the showfield. The next year registrations dropped by about 500 cars. Virtually all were "Do Not Judge" vehicles.<P>That was also the year the judges were first given a truck for their efforts. A nice gesture to those who gave up their day to judge.<P>As Al says, there is potential for thousands of cars showing up at Hershey just for the parking place at the showfield. Perhaps a solution might be to have the driver class exhibited on Sunday. The showfield would then be clear and available, and those serious about being evaluated should be willing to stick around.<P>Just a thought.<P>hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Excellent post, Howard.<P>After reading it, I thought of 2 concerns/experiences:<P>1. Smaller Host Regions should take this under consideration when hosting a National. Some, if not, all are held in town parks with limitations on space.<P>2. It was said to me in conversation with no less than 4 people over the years, that, the reason they do not want to be judged is the parking is a little more expensive (entrance fee), but, the person does not have to walk. <P>Regards, Peter J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Peter ~ On my previous post I forgot one thing that will tend to aggravate the situation even more. "Do Not Judge" carries a $17.00 registration fee and receives nothing. "Driver Class" vehicles get on for $12.00 and get a certification badge, a participation tab and eventually a board to mount them on.<P>Now how do you think all those vehicles will be registered by folks just looking for a parking space near the action. Talk about diminishing returns.<P>Hey you guys in charge of this new "Driver Class" concept. You had better give a little thought to what is going to happen down the road. You may have created the monster that eats Hershey and some other Meets unless you find a way to welcome everybody while at the same time having some solution to the space problem. <P>Think judging classes on Saturday and driver class the day before or after. I'm sure you will be able to find enough "Driver Class" judge evaluators" for both days. Two credits on one weekend will attract some while others might like to get a credit and still have Saturday to see the cars. <P>Again, just my opinion. ~ hvs<p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 03-18-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Personally, I am 100% behind getting the "Drivers" into the AACA. Obviously,there are very nice drivers out there, to include fine folks behind the wheel, that must be tapped for membership. Collectively, we must/can work out the logistics.<P>Let's keep the thread going...<P>Regards, Peter J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Having the Driver's Class display on Sunday at Hershey would amount to outright banishment, I think. The last time I was at Hershey on Sunday the most financial activity I saw was in the collection of aluminum cans for recycle. There's simply not much left in Hershey after 6:00PM Saturday.<P><I> Maybe, </I> after it as been more seriously established as a force within the AACA, <I> then </I> any Hershey display of Driver's Class cars could be moved to Sunday in an attempt to extend the event over one more day. <P><I> If </I> it is decided to bring a display of Driver's Class cars into Hershey this year or at any time in the not-to-distant future, I think it might be a better idea to have it set up on Friday. Hopefully the display field could be freed up for such a display on Friday. I'm sure a lot of influential people would be inconvienced losing their Friday parking space (be they HERCO or AACA), but most of them I'm sure manage to find a way to get to the show on Saturday anyway so there must be some places around there to put a car. <P>If it is impossible to free up the paved lot on Friday, then maybe there will be some other space that could be opened up. <P>If there's no room, then there's no room. Anybody familiar with Hershey wouldn't need a further explanation.<P>Bear in mind that the new class serves to both expand the AACA's appeal <I> and </I> influence. As a recruiting tool I'm sure it will prove invaluable to the club if they stick with it long enough. Having such a cherry available as good parking at Hershey combined with such a wonderful display opportunity will aid this effort of the AACA immensely. I know several people personally who buy vendor spaces for the parking space (no names will be divulged! ), denying access based on simple jealousies will not reflect well on the club.<P>Also, I detect more than a little undercurrent that there is fear that the new class will be loaded with undesirable heaps cluttering the view. If that's the case, then the class has no shot. It (and the club) will sink or swim based on the attitude of the established members to the new recruits. If I detect an attitude of disdain for my decent, straight '60 Buick that never-the-less needs new paint, chrome and interior work to be competative at the AACA level, then you're going to lose me and my car even after it's restored to concours standard.<P>And I doubt I'd be alone in that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Dave ~ I think your arguement that Friday would be better than Sunday is valid and probably the best way to go if Saturday is out. My reason for suggesting Sunday was the ready availability of space, but you are quite right about Sunday being a dead day.<BR>Friday would possibly be more difficult space wise, but a far better time for the display. If the area can be cleared for Saturday, then it can be cleared for Friday too.<P>From what I saw at Punta Gorda, the cars being exhibited in the driver classs will not be a problem. Some of them could have won an award in judging.<P>I feel that the class, its exhibitors and cars will be made quite welcome at AACA Meets. I intend to enter my VW Thing in that class later this year in Denver. Now that is a driver, if you consider a motorized tin can a car. <P>My only reservation is on the matter of space at Hershey. The driver class should not be excluded from Hershey if we want to make the owners of these cars feel welcome, but it may necessitate having it on some day other than Saturday or in an area removed from the judging field. I do not like the idea of an area far removed, because of the implication of second class status.<P>Moon and Scotland in agreement again. WOW!! ~ <P>hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Truth be told, Howard, you and I agree on a great deal. <P>Now if I could only figure out this doughnut fixation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Good comments and good discussion, but as with so many things on the DF, it moves much faster than the facts. What are the facts relating to the impact of the DPC (Driver Participation Class)? The answer - we don't know yet. Like Howard, I have a couple of cars that have just been waiting for this kind of participation at meets (they go on tours of course). <P>There were some similar concerns when we started the HPOF. We made some real mistakes with some of the early certifications. But as the class matured and as we learned just what this class meant the value became obvious. I am optimistic that the driver class will be the same. Let's don't make them second class members just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Dave ~ The doughnut fixation [KKs only] goes back 50 years to my freshman year in college in Chapel Hill, NC. I became addicted at that time, and have just never been able to break the habit! However a touch of diabetes has slowed down my consumption quite a bit. ~ Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 very interesting howard, would that make you a "tar heel" like myself? blueflame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 I'm completely ignorant of the ins and outs of this sort of thing, but why could you not limit participation to, say, 250 vehicles with space awarded on a lottery basis? If a person gets a space one year, they'd be ineligible the next and re-eligible the year after that. Or something to that effect.<P>By the way, I don't know why the Forum says I'm unregistered all of a sudden; I've been registered since October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxops Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 IF this is an AACA-wide issue, it affects more than just the Hershey meet, but becomes the model for all AACA sponsored car meets. Please be sure that all-regions are considered, and not just the Hershey meet.<P>Personally I think that it's a good idea. I have 2 Fords from the 80s that I restore just like my AACA show car. Soon they too will be in the classic ranks, but in the meantime, this is an example of the people with more modern cars that will eventually become antiques/classics that we could be drawing in.<P>------------------<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Blueflame ~ Sorry, I am not a Tar Heel by birth. I was an escapee from what is now The Peoples Republic of Maryland.<P>Jaxops ~ The driver Class is AACA wide but the space problem affects mainly the Hershey Fall Meet. I am addressing ONLY the space problem as it relates to Hershey and I really do not see space as a MAJOR consideration at other AACA National Meets at this time.<P>Driver Class is limited to vehicles 25 years old and older, so '80s cars are a number of years away from eligibility. <P>hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanK Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Speaking for myself, I like the concept of the new Driver's class. I entered my 1964 Rambler American convertible as a "do not judge" at our Regional Meet in August 2000. I must admit, it irked me a bit to pay $17 just to place it on the showfield. (I didn't do it for the parking, because there was ample free parking just as close.)<P>My car is "original" except for the new top and it truly looks best from at least 15 feet away. Since many of the Ramblers were made in Wisconsin, though, it always gets a lot of attention at our local events.<P>This car is a driver in all senses of the word. We joyride in it, take it to the grocery store, run errands, any excuse to feel the wind in our hair. It's also a great parade car (which is how our Region makes a lot of its fund-raising money). In spite of the fun we have with it, it's just not the kind of car that's worth sticking a lot of money into. Because of that, it will never be judge-worthy by AACA standards, and we have no illusions about the state it is in. That said, it's good that AACA, throught the creation of the Drivers class, recognizes the contribution this car (and others like it) make to the hobby. And now, when I bring it to a meet, I'll get something for my money besides free parking! <P>Jan K.<p>[This message has been edited by JanK (edited 03-20-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 howard, i meant tar heel by matriculation, not by birth (you can't really hold a man's birthplace against him), al<P>also, i'm very pleased that the aaca is considering a driver's class in some fashion. there are too many really nice cars out here to ignore just because of a 12 volt conversion , radials, electric wipers, etc.we don't want to take over, just be considered a part of. keep up the good work, this is a great club and a great df. blueflame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 What if a participant registers his car<BR>for Hershey but doesn't want his car judged or be in a driver's class? Such as an<BR>unrestored Model A like I have. Its a driver<BR>but I want to be with all the other Model A's<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Smeraldo Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Oilspot just register it as a do not judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Smeraldo Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Could'nt the drivers class be put inside the stadium on saturday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 The idea of a drivers class is great! As a younger collector the idea of a concours resto is scary from a cash stand point as well as the intimidation factor of perfect trailor queen competition. While my car wins at local non aaca meets, i feel it wouldnt stand a chance in the hershey competition. With a drivers class those of us who cant afford perfect restos have a shot at winning an award! I'm all for it. I thought car shows were to share ideas and car talk as well as display wonderful historic autos. I hope there wont be any snobish thoughts due to one car being enjoyed as a car rather than a piece of art. Thats whats kept me from hershey all these years. My car is a wonderful example of how nice a 6000.00 car can be, its not meant to compete with 60,000.00 cars. Just my two cents. Remember giving awards to drivers will increase club interest, not just water down the prestige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Rick:<P>As promised, info & membership application is in the mail.<P>Welcome aboard.<P>Regards, Peter J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ccar Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 If the drivers class is displayed on Friday, or when ever. Parking eliminated by that class could probably be arranged for on the Lemon Field. Several empty spaces there....<P>Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Chuck: Good job. Your positive thinking was so profound that I must digest it for awhile.<P>Regards, Peter J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 I digested it. What serious ideas to you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Chuck ~ Only BROWN cars will be allowed in that field. <P>Or maybe I have that backward. Only BROWN cars will come out of that field <P>hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Pete,<BR>Got the info in the mail today. I'll have it sent to you this week. One other question, Why is it that driver class cant be judged? Can I request judging? How do we know how the cars stack up to others in class if not judged? The participation badges are nice, and will be appreciated.<P>Thanks.<BR>Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Rick ~ Cars in the driver class are not judged because that is the way the class was established. This is for owners who DO NOT want their cars judged, but want to be able to enter them in a national meet and receive recognition for a "driver".<P>If you want your car judged just enter it in the judging classes and it WILL be judged. It WILL be pointed. You WILL then be able to determine how it ranked with the others in the class.<P>Judging or no judging is YOUR choice. YOU make that decision and then enter. You will get no support for judging in the drivers class so don't waste your time trying to promote it. That class was created to fill the wishes of the owners of "drivers" and they don't want to be involved with judging.<P>Just my opinion on the way things are.<P>hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Rick:<P>I believe Howard answered your question. As he stated, it is your choice. After you join the AACA, you will receive the "Antique Automobile" magazine bi-monthly. Enclosed with the Magazine will be a mailer listing the upcoming National Meets, Tours, etc. You check the box next to the upcoming event you want to attend. You will receive a packet back from headquarters with all the details of the event you choosed. There will be a question box asking if you want your vehicle judged, or, not.<P>Hope this helps,<P>Peter J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Thanks very much! I think thats excellent. I thought for a moment that if i was only in that class i'd have to earn my way into a judged class. My confusion ( it happens! ) Once again, thank you and i look forward to being a member!<P>Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAW Posted April 4, 2001 Share Posted April 4, 2001 Thank you Jim for clearing up Drivers Class question at the Hershey Fall Meet. I'ts good to have you here at the Forum. I look forward to seeing just how many Drivers Class cars we get at the upcoming meets. The huge crowds anticipated might not be the big problem some expect. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted April 4, 2001 Author Share Posted April 4, 2001 I too thank Jim for the answer to my original posted question! It only asked if it were true or not that there would be no Driver's Class at the Hershey Fall Meet.<P>I can't believe how many posts were put up that had NOTHING to do with my original post.<P>If you have concerns about something in your little corner of the world, post your own question! Don't cloud the issue presented in the original post with a bunch of crap that doesn't apply!<P>------------------<BR>Ron Springstead, Editor<BR><I>The Schoharie Valley Rambler</I> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Hoover Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Dear Mr. Paid for this Thread Fordee9R,<P>You just told 12 regular members of this DF to shove off your posting here. A couple of them I noticed even helped you in the past with your questions. ( which I noticed you never replied back with even a thanks) I also believe that a new member was brought into AACA off this thread and you call all this crap talk? I believe you should re-think your thoughts on this. I know what I'll be thinking when I see your next post.<P>Rick<p>[This message has been edited by Rick Hoover (edited 04-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 OK Mr. fordee9r, what has the fact that you are editor of the Schoharie Valley Rambler got to do with the subject of drivers class?<P>Are you trying to impress the readers of this forum with how important you are? To use your OWN term, CRAP!<P>Ron Springstead, Editor The Schoharie Valley Rambler is extraneous crap on this portion DF. Save that for the editor's forum.<P>MF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Binger Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Does what Mr. fordee9r said mean that we are not to be on the same thread as he is?<P>Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 The Driver Participation Class got off to a great start at the meet in Punta Gorda, Fla. We had 19 vehicles, all of exceptional quality. We look forward to Talladega, San Diego, and the other 2001 National Meets. From the comments of the vehicle owners and others this seems it will be a popular addition to our class system. <P>The only problem this year is at the Eastern Fall Meet in Hershey, Pa. The Hershey Region is 100% in support of the Driver Participation Class, but due to the Herco Company building and paving initiative, they have no way of knowing if the parking will be available for this class. With the size of this meet and the lead time necessary to print materials, etc. the decision has been made NOT to have the Driver Participation Class at this years Eastern Fall Meet in Hershey Pa.<P>The Class Judging Committee and the Driver Participation Committee look forward to working with the Hershey Region in bringing this class to the Hershey Meet next year.<P>Jim Raines<BR>Chairman, Driver Participation Committee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordee9r (Ron Springstead) Posted April 5, 2001 Author Share Posted April 5, 2001 To Mr. Hoover... Those couple of members who helped in a couple of other situations were replied to and thanked via E-mail.<P>To Mr. Ford.... If you took the trouble to register for the DF you would learn that there is a place for something called a "signature".<P>To the rest of you, I'm sorry if you took offense at my use of the word "crap". Since I've only been "registered" on the DF for a month, I hadn't realized that there will always be a bunch of "stuff" posted that has nothing to do with the original question.<P>If those are the rules of the game, so be it... I'll live by them and complain no more.<P> <P>------------------<BR>Ron Springstead, Editor<BR><I>The Schoharie Valley Rambler</I> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Yes Ron, those are the rules and they were in effect long before you arrrived on the scene. A little more study of the territory before slapping some us in the face would probably have been well advised. hvs <P><p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 04-05-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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