Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 The Old Thread, "Supercharging, revisited" This is not a daydream, a crazy idea, speculation, etc. This time around, it's real.It's a proven fact that the Buick Reatta was built for performance, and it is. 4 disks and electronic anti-lock, independent suspension, styling...it's made to go fast...But no. We ('88-90 cars) ended up with the "Fuel Injection" 3800, referred from here on out as the LN3. Is the Reatta fast? Yes. The LN3 provides plenty of horsepower, torque, fuel economy, and lasts a very, very long time. I think it's safe to say it's one of the best engines in modern times. Nevertheless, the Reatta still didnt reach its full potential.Hunderds of message board posts, many private messages, and dozens of emails have been exchanged regarding adding more horsepower to the Reatta. I'm not shooting for Hardcore street racing performance, drag racing, whatever. But I think many of us can agree that our cars would be a little more enjoyable with some more power.We came to the conclusion that it isn't that easy. Ryan of Sinister Performance/GMtuners said it would be about $6k to swap an L67, the supercharged series II 3800 and 4T60-e transmission into a '90 Reatta. We chose the '90 to avoid any instrumentation complications (like with the ECC). He'd also need about 6 weeks to do it, not to mention that he's near Fort Wayne, IN and we're near Lansing, MI.There was no easy way, until now...I propose to obtain a complete engine from a '95 or so era Park Avenue (or Riviera), the "series 1" supercharged 3800, and directly swap the necessary parts onto my engine, for a planned increase of about 60 horsepower, to 225 hp, up from 165. Maybe2fast, also known as Don in Walled Lake, MI is my primary moral supporter.From what I know, he knows, Ryan knows, and from other posts (like in Supercharging, Revisited [thanks guys]), this idea should work. We're not completely certain yet, but we think that the cylinder heads on my engine DO NOT need to be swapped out. We think this is what needs to be swapped or added to my LN3:-intake manifold-supercharger-injectors (you kinda need more fuel)-harmonic balancer -idlers/tensioners for the supercharger beltThe S/C engine, at least the series 1, is pretty much just an LN3. The crankshaft, pistons, and engine internals are pretty much the same. Nothing weird inside. The series II is a much different story, however, that's why we're skipping that one.Ryan of GMtuners previously said that he can reburn by EEPROM/memcal/ECM chip to accomodate the changes in fuel, air, and the boost. I will be sending this to him pretty soon (like this Tuesday, after president's day)I am obtaining a complete engine from a salvage yard. A search of car-part.com says that there's one here by me at Heights auto parts with 146k miles for $500. We're trying to work with a $800 budget. We're not using the highest grade parts or new parts or anything, for this is merely a trial to see if it really can be done. I'll be using new gaskets, keeping things clean, etc, but the goal is to get it together and on the road as quickly as possible and for the lowest cost. $800 is far, far away from $6k. If we need a supercharger rebuild, or want to swap the entire engine into my car, or something blows up, etc, its still going to be much cheaper than $6k. I might not be able to replace just the intake manifold and may end up swapping the heads, but that's the main reason why we're getting a whole engine...we'll have everything.Yes, I am going to use a good digital camera and document this. Is it crazy? Maybe. But it hasn't been done before, and to me, looks to be the cheapest and easiest way.I say this is real because I've already secured the funding. My dad handed me $600 cash, and I'm going to go pick up the donor motor on Monday (I don't think salvage yards take President's Day off). Action is going to be taken very, very soon.Will there be complications? Probably. Although I, Maybe2fast, and Ryan (and I think someone else in Supercharging Revisited, sorry for not giving credit at the moment) are pretty darn sure it'll bolt up one way or another, it's possible it won't, and the project will bust. Will it put more stress on my engine? I wouldn't doubt it. I've got 153k miles, but hey hey, hang on. This engine uses less than 1/2 quart between changes. It's tight. I'm sure there's plenty Park Avenue Ultras still doing fine with that many miles and they've had boost all their lives. My 4T60 transaxle appears to be original, but I figure that the 150k mark is when auto trannys fail anyway. We have a very, very good transmission mechanic that works out of his garage down the street from us. Regarding this, my dad said "that's what Larry's for" If/when it gets rebuilt, it will be modified to take the extra stresses. I plan on using Mobil 1 to help the engine out and will probably add an engine oil cooler.I have school, my wonderful girlfriend (sorry guys, it isn't Jessica ) a life, etc so I can't work on this project 24/7, but with a weekend, I'd say that this swap could be easily done in a day. I tend to work at a kind of slow pace and don't always have critical stuff on hand like gaskets, uncommon sockets and wrenches, etc. But nevertheless, it won't take a month or anything. I could probably get it done in a week or two with my schedule. The good thing is that our Reattas are laid up for the winter anyway, so there's not much to do.My dad is also pretty interested in this plan, and if it all works out, would like me to perform the same modifications on one of his convertibles (probably the Select 60). Comments? Suggestions? Questions? There's probably some stuff I forgot to mention, but I'll get to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Good Hunting there Monday. You'll need all the externals, alternator, power steering pump, pulleys and tensioners, water pump, injectors/ fuel rail. Junk yards don't know how to unplug anything, they use cutting torches and Side Cutter Pliers so plan on wiring issues. Everything is moved around on the Series I with the S/C.<The attachment is my Round I 3800 Series I NA sitting onthe Sub-frame with the Getrag 5-Spd. Are the exhaust manifolds on the 3.8L spaced the same as these on the next generation, if they are then you may be Ok to just bolt on the Intake etc. (I can't remember-old age etc!)>You have to deal with the EGR as we've mentioned before, and honestly, I'm very dubious about what Ryan is going to produce for you. If it works, well...First time you fire this baby up you're going to think it's gone into self-destruct mode, ie; revving way up. This is just the Block Learn starting from scratch, it will idle down eventually.For the experimental aspect of this and purely for economics I'd strongly suggest pulling the 3.8L out and dropping the Series I S/C in. Your balance of Funds isn't going to cover even the price of gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 "May the wind be at our backs"-Admiral James T. Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joereatta Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I don't particularly agree that the Reatta was built for performance. I think it was built for comfort-not for speed.I don't think that it was built to appeal to or steal the 'vette or porsche crowd. I think it was meant to appeal to the white collar professional. But your'e right, being that it does handle well straight line at high speed, for all the reasons that you have spoken of, it would be great to have faster standing start performance and a stronger mid range. To me that is where the Reatta's engine and transmission performance is lacking.Handling would most definitely benefit from tweaking but it will always be front wheel drive, not necessarily a performance feature. However, having gotten stuck in a snow squall this morning in N.E. Pennsylvania,I have a true appreciation of the front wheel drive and antilocks. Good luck with your project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Joe,From propaganda produced by Buick leading up to the introduction of the Reatta, and what we've seen over the past couple of years concerning prototype Reattas I don't think there's any doubt Buick had wanted to offer the Reatta with punch. It was all about GM internal politics right at that time, Caddilac Div. was taking control of Engineering resources for several divisions and had a say about what model got what. They(Caddilac) were just bringing the Allante (I think it was) to market and apparently didn't want any perceived competition. As F-14 points out, the platform has all the ingredients, Steering ratio, ABS, 4 wheel discs, it was all there except the approval to offer it with a couple of hundred horse power. SAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Sadly, this car may be lost foreverGreg: I don't completely understand all that's going on, though I understand a lot of it like the MAF readings etc. I hope Ryan can fix me up. In an email from a while back, and that I posted in "Supercharging, Revisited", he said <span style="font-weight: bold">Philip, the main problem we run into when trying to use a turbo or supercharger with you computer is that while I can reprogram it to dump enough fuel to compensate for boost, the computer will not be able to determine how much boost you are running nor exactly when you enter boost. Basically what will happen is say at about 1psi of boost the computer will go into "power enrichment" mode which is when the computer will dump this extra fuel. However at 1psi of boost, obviously there will be too much fuel being dumped since we will have to reprogram the computer to dump enough fuel for say 10psi of boost which is what you will probably have at WOT. As you can see, fuel delivery isn't going to be perfect, but it does work.</span> We'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 And carried over from the "Super Charge your brakes" thread here's Scott Pearson/ The Auto Shop" link on S/C conversion; http://www.theautoshop.net/TrofeoEngine.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luftweg Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 LoL.CaDILLac. One 'D', two 'L's'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inthespot Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 The best I remember, when the Reatta was introduced it was marketed to the female drivers. The male drivers were geared to Camaros, Grand Sports, Corvettes, Mustangs, Firebirds the Nissan 300ZX and RX7 and the Supras. The Cads and the Reatta were geared to comfort and style with one transmission and one engine. No options because the ladies did not care how fast it went but did care how nice it went and how quiet it went. They gave the Reatta enough sparkle (disk brakes, independent suspension bucket seats and leather) to get the price point. But they were a luxury automobile I think we are lucky that it went that way. I have only been interested in the Reatta for a few months now and was totally surprised to find the number that I have in the shape they are in. There are so many that look like they have not even been on the road. When you look at the above mentioned autos that the guys bought in the 70's, 80's and 90's, well most of they are raged out or at least you can tell they were used for 50,60 or 100,000 miles and the ones that are not are also 4 or 5 times the cost of the Reattas. These Reattas were used by a lot of mothers and wifes and they took care of them and kept them in the garage while our Camaros and Grand Sports set in the drive way with beer cans in the floorboards, golf clubs, tools and everything else in them. We drove them in all types of weather and the carpets and seats would show it. The Reattas were in the garage and the family station wagon took the wife to work or to market and the Reatta stayed put.There has been two reasons that I have been trying to get in a Reatta and be a member of the Buick Club, and this forum. One, I can get a very nice luxurious new looking two seater for a small amount of money. Two, I have never seen anything like this forum. The way every body pitches in and helps each member and the amount of comradery is just hard to believe. When I read the entries here I think I am in an auto mechanics class and I'm the only one failing. But I have no doubt that nothing could happen to a Buick Reatta that can't be fixed via this forum. Just hope I got enough savvy to figure out what everyone is saying. I need a lot of pictures at times, oh yes and big bright crayons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta45 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Have to agree with most of your observations? The Reatta is a very well constructed, affordable and fun to drive. But it?s about as close to a performance car as it is to a SUV. I know the difference as I have owned performance cars, (I know the feeling when you pat your right foot)? and SUV?s, (I can haul lots of people and stuff)? To make A Reatta either one is not very practical? Attempting to find the next weakest link in modifying a car is in fact what you will be doing? but hey if it enhances your enjoyment of your Buick that?s OK. And it makes interesting reading? most of the time. KennyV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I suspect the bean counters rather than internal politics. Even the 88 shouws the effects of cost cutting to make a number, they just grabbed the Riviera seat as is instead of finding one an inch lower. Most of the electronics are carryovers and changing that would be a lot less expensive than changing the drivetrain.Second you have the Buick notion that you *never* bring out the real design in the first year. Fortunately the resident "ugly" stylist did not get his/her hands on it.You know what I mean - the design studio comes up with a really clean design with everything in the right place and they target that for the third model year. Then the ugly stylist makes sure that the first and second years are not quite that good.Examples: 63-64 Riviera and the 65. 68-69 Skylark and then the 70. 71-72 Riviera again then the 73.Buick (and GM) does the same thing with powerplants, saving the best for the third year. It is called "marketting".In addition there was the minor problem that Buick did not have a hot 3800 FWD combo available. The turbos all were RWD and used the 200R4 transmission. Meanwhile the 440T4 FWD trans was pushed to handle a N/A 3800 (was designed for a 2.8). Even with our stock engine it is considered fragile.Sure the engineering team could build a turbo (and the valve cover bolts say it based on an earlier engine rather than an '88 3800). Blow a trans every 1000 miles and just grab another. Could not do that in production though.Need a new program - easy: they had the design books that were fully commented and had links to show every place a variable was used (GM has refused to release that info on either the ECM or the BCM so must be painstakingly and slowly reverse engineered).But the real hooker was the EPA certification. At 3300-3800 lbs the Reatta was in the same "weight class" as the Riviera or the Bonneville. This meant it did not need to be tested seperately. When the 92 Park Avenue Ultra got a S/C 3800 Buick shared the cost with Pontiac as the same engine was used in the Bonneville SSEI (injected-injected ?). Unfortunately the Reatta was no longer around for 1992.So the reason the Reatta never got a hot engine is probably not from politics but economics. At the time Buick was centered on the 3800 and so that is what the Reatta received. Besides, do you think that the targetted audience really cared ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luftweg Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Whatever happened to that dude who was pursuing the RWD conversion for a Reatta?Was it all abandoned as being too unfeasible, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 If the Reatta was not built originally for performance, then why would GM spend the extra money for brake system that does not depend on vacuum? The lack of a vacuum brake system would mean that there was NO vacuum available from the engine,which means the system was to be positively charged, as In supercharging or turbo charging. I can think of no other reason for the expense. Can anyone else??Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 At the time, the technology didn't exist for vacuum-powered antilock braking. All ABS-equipped vehicles at that time were electrical pump + accumulator designs, same as ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Correct. From what's known, Teves was used because of the boost (which never quite made it)As I said, this is real. Here's my ECM...Memcal is packed and ready to send to Ryan on Wednesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Well according to my research, Ford had anti-lock brakes in 1990.And they didn't use a pump, they used vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luftweg Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Well I, for one, am excited about your SC Reatta project...Naturally, I am very interested in pursuing the idea myself someday...Hope everything works out well, that you get all the bugs out, AND that you well document every step.You are after all a pioneer (one of the pioneers -- no slight to others, because still there are not many who have done it)... and your reports will be of great value.Maybe someday there will be some sort of aftermarket 'translator' available to hook different engine's ECMs to the Reatta BCM, that might end up being the 'missing link' that will simply the whole matter.... or am I thinking sci-fi here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well according to my research, Ford had anti-lock brakes in 1990.And they didn't use a pump, they used vacuum. </div></div>Correct. But our systems pre-date that by at least 5 years. GM brought out vacuum-powered ABS in 1990 as well, and the '91 Reatta has it instead of the pump-driven units used 88-90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct. From what's known, Teves was used because of the boost (which never quite made it) </div></div> ABS was put in for the obvious safety benefit that it imparts. The high-end European makes were putting them in in the mid-eighties, and as GM's premium platform, all 'E' (and 'K') platform vehicles had ABS as at least optional as part of the 1986 platform-switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Rawja: did the Riviera of the same time period have an ABS option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manikmekanik Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have school, my wonderful girlfriend (sorry guys, it isn't Jessica ) a life, etc so I can't work on this project 24/7 </div></div> If your GF helps, you could get done quicker! Maybe get a photo of her in the empty engine compartment, or holding the engine up in the air with 1 hand. Just hide or crop the hoist out of view, makes for a great shot.Hey, did'nt you guys find a 3.1 MAF was called for? Something 'bout the flow rates seemed to make sense for your application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">did the Riviera of the same time period have an ABS option? </div></div> Yep. As did the Seville, Eldorado & the Toronado/Trofeo. All E/K platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Jessica said she'd pose on one of our Reattas at the big show coming up in Lansing I did some heavy spending. Last night I picked up a money order for Ryan to reburn the EPROM/memcal ($40). Today, I paid for the engine I found on car-part.com from Heights Auto Parts in Lansing ($477), and ordered a Felpro intake manifold gasket set from Advance Auto Parts ($31.67).So far, that's $548.67 (minus the little Walmart money order fee, so add like 55 cents or whatever it is)The motor is from, and still is in, a '95 Bonneville SSEi. I checked it out myself and it's complete. He said it was running 33 days ago with good oil pressure and all. It's as is, the salesman said because of the mileage (146k). But good enough. The belts were off of it. I felt the supercharger pulley and I didn't feel any play and it turned smoothly, so I guess it'll be good. They said I can pick it up on Wednesday. Gasket set will be in tomorrow.I'll keep you guys updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 ABS-Boost NYET. Clue to why Teves was selected is on the 88 dash - the bit that says "Diesel". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Oh yeah I forgot that part. Why exactly can't diesels have vacuum? I know my dad's '91 F250 diesel has a belt driven pump for vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Because a Diesel has no throttle plate - they run wide open all the time. Power/speed is controled by the fuel injection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Picked up the intake manifold gasket kit today. It came with fuel rail O rings and some other gaskets, which I'm guessing are for the throttle body and stuff. I also sent out my MEMCAL to Ryan via Priority Mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I hope your project works out. You could program the EGR out of the system if that becomes a problem since it is a different style. Deleting it will hurt fuel mileage somewhat, and the engine will be more sensitive to part throttle knock, but the chip can be adjusted to richen the mixture to help that. What sort of MAF is used with the supercharger? I have three different MAF's I am testing on the flowbench to establish flow rate vs frequency output, a stock '90 3800 MAF, a 3" remote mount from a 3400 engine and an integrated MAF/throttle body (also Hitachi) from a TPI 3800 engine. Work continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Gonna go pick up the motor tomorrow after school. I sure hope this works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsTrofeo Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Old Thread, "Supercharging, revisited" This is not a daydream, a crazy idea, speculation, etc. This time around, it's real.</div></div>Doesn't Greg Ross have a supercharger in his Reatta? I fail to see how it's been speculation before if it's been done. There's also an Oldsmobile Trofeo out there with a series II supercharged, saw it in a gas station in Indiana a couple years ago. BTW, a Trofeo and a Reatta alot alike.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We came to the conclusion that it isn't that easy. Ryan of Sinister Performance/GMtuners said it would be about $6k to swap an L67, the supercharged series II 3800 and 4T60-e transmission into a '90 Reatta. We chose the '90 to avoid any instrumentation complications (like with the ECC). He'd also need about 6 weeks to do it, not to mention that he's near Fort Wayne, IN and we're near Lansing, MI.</div></div>The instrumentation communications in the 90 is very similar to the eariler years, you still need the proper communications between the gauges and the body computer. Your body computer depends on the engine computer for much of it's data as well. In other words, you can't just go swapping computers.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was no easy way, until now...I propose to obtain a complete engine from a '95 or so era Park Avenue (or Riviera), the "series 1" supercharged 3800, and directly swap the necessary parts onto my engine, for a planned increase of about 60 horsepower, to 225 hp, up from 165. Maybe2fast, also known as Don in Walled Lake, MI is my primary moral supporter.</div></div> You're buying the engine, then swapping parts to yours? Why not just install the entire engine? It's not exactly a P-N-P operation to install the supercharger on the early 3800.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From what I know, he knows, Ryan knows, and from other posts (like in Supercharging, Revisited [thanks guys]), this idea should work. We're not completely certain yet, but we think that the cylinder heads on my engine DO NOT need to be swapped out. </div></div>While the cylinder heads may be a concern, you may want to think about the rest of the engine. Camshaft profile, rotationg assembly balance (you'll need the twin belt balancer) and anything else that might be different.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The S/C engine, at least the series 1, is pretty much just an LN3. The crankshaft, pistons, and engine internals are pretty much the same. Nothing weird inside. The series II is a much different story, however, that's why we're skipping that one.</div></div>Yes, they're very similar. There was quite a few changes between the 88-90 engine and the 91-95 non-supercharged. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ryan of GMtuners previously said that he can reburn by EEPROM/memcal/ECM chip to accomodate the changes in fuel, air, and the boost. I will be sending this to him pretty soon (like this Tuesday, after president's day)</div></div>This is a mass airflow system, so it doesn't understand 'boost', just how much air is passing the sensor. There was some changes in the airflow sensor, so you might have some issues with it.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say this is real because I've already secured the funding. My dad handed me $600 cash, </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have school, my wonderful girlfriend (sorry guys, it isn't Jessica ) a life, etc so I can't work on this project 24/7, but with a weekend, I'd say that this swap could be easily done in a day. I tend to work at a kind of slow pace and don't always have critical stuff on hand like gaskets, uncommon sockets and wrenches, etc. But nevertheless, it won't take a month or anything. I could probably get it done in a week or two with my schedule. The good thing is that our Reattas are laid up for the winter anyway, so there's not much to do.</div></div>Be ready to spend alot more time than two weeks on it. If you've never tackled a major project like this, you're in for a surprise.There was a guy a year or so ago that was doing a Series II / 4T60E swap in another guy's Reatta. He got on the gmecm mailing list asking questions about how to get the gauges to work. Found out he'd swapped computers, made quite a mess of the car. Just be careful with the electronics, it's easy to get into a ringer on one of these cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Got the motor today. Gonna head back outside and commence work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 As "Olds Trofeo" points out and as I asked a few days ago, why are you so determined to bolt Series I S/C parts onto a tired old 3.8L. Unless you're rebuilding from the bottom up why even bother to invest in top end gaskets, just pull the 3.8L and replace it with the S/C 3800. Why complicate the job since the mods needing doing are all external to the engine.And let Murphy get a wiff of this, you'll be breaking bolts and inducing a whole other level of torment and toil here?????????Come with your questions when things look confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Keep in mind that Greg did not start from a 88-90 "C" engine, he started with a crate "L". There are differences between the crank snout and balancer of an "C" (slip fit) vs an "L" (interference fit) for instance. Also while most specs are the same between the L-27 and L-67 (not all: the oil pressure spec on the "C" is 40 psi at 1875 rpm. The "L" is 60 psi at the same speed. There is a reason the general kicked up the pressure), the s/c engines used a different bearing material.If it were me, I'd tear down the L-67 and treat it to bearings, gaskets, timing chain and sprockets, water pump, and brass freeze plugs while out but certainly would go with the package.This would also provide an opportunity to look at the cylinder walls, piston tops, and heads and decide if a valve job (probably) and ring job was advisable.Or you can just install it as is, crank, and hope. But I would not try swapping the s/c to the "C" engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don B. Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 DONT FORGET TO CHANGE THE FUEL PUMP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Some pix from today: Our Series I L67, now with the big aluminum assembly with the tensioners and idlers off Top of the engine with fuel rail and injectors off Here we have the big assembly thing mentioned and the fuel rail. I later replaced the O rings Throttle body off. Looks like I'm going to be using the L67 throttle body and stuff Supercharger's now off of the intake manifold Bottom of the supercharger, if you guys wondered what's in it. I dumped the oil out of it and will pick some up tomorrow. Here's what's in the L67 without the manifold. I covered it to keep out dust until it's better stored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hello F14CRAZY (What the heck does that mean anyway?)Looks like you have your work cut out for you. I wish you all the luck with your undertaking. As mentioned above, the project is going to take longer and cost more than you might imagine. But please, don't get discouraged. In the words of Theodore Roosevelt... "The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything." (Or words to that effect.) For more words of encouragement look here or here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Thanks John.F14 goes way back to like 4th grade. F14 as in the Grumman F-14 Tomcat. Sadly, they've already flown their last missions. I haven't ever changed F14CRAZY as my AOL screen name and swore never to (i hate it when people change the email addresses etc often). It still sounds cool, and F14 suit as a good nickname See below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 OK...I wasn't finished with the last post. (I spilled sticky sweet lemonaid on the keyboard.) Thanks for the update on the F14 moniker. Really appreciate the text and the improved photo quality of your pics. Keep'em comming.Oh, and I can't help but add this encouraging quote from a former Vice President... <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If we do not succeed, we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle </div></div> Potatoe - Potathoe... What the heck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EDBSO Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Used supercharger oil is the stinkiest stuff I have ever smelled.You can replace with a very high quality synthetic oil or the GM supercharger oil.You might want to put a smaller pulley on now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 I'm gonna pick up some of that supercharger oil from a GM dealer later todayI thought about an underdrive pulley but I'll do that later. Goal now is to get it working and driveableI read that the couplers inside these can go bad, but rebuild kits are readily available on ebay and it looks easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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