Model M vs BB

[alsancle]

Does anyone know if the M was available with the same 20 inch buffalo wires that the BB came with? Are there any significant differences between the chassis?

thanks!

A.J.

[Layden B]

Buffalo wire wheel catalog shows the same part number 20" B5 wheel for AA, BB, and M.

[K8096]

As noted above the 20" buffalo wire wheels are the same. Displacement was increased to 322 cubic inches in 1929, different 4 speed transmission in 1929 (1st was a stump puller & never used) where 1928 was three speed, short wheelbase for 1928 was 131" while in 1929 increased to 134.5". Different, wider radiator starting in 1929. 1928 had Ross steering gear, while 1929 had Gemmer. These are some of the major differneces in chassis but there are many other smaller differences too. Despite these differences, there are MANY parts that are interchangable though too.

[28StutzCabriolet]

I cant' add much to the above, except that the 29' Model M uses a different knock off. The Model M uses a female hex hubcap and the 26-28 is a male hex hubcap. The wrench goes into the Model M hubcap.

Brian

[alsancle]

Just to clarify the male/female thing :-). Which one is like the duesenberg, where the wrench pulls out hub before you can turn it? I'm asking because I have a chassis sans motor or firewall and it is certainly Stutz but I'm not sure of the model.

thanks, A.J.

[28StutzCabriolet]

The 1926 through 1928 is like a Duesenberg, Lincoln, or Cadillac cap, only smaller. It is actually the same as Chrysler Imperial, LaSalle, Series 80 Pierce Arrow plus a couple others. You are correct in that the center pulls out on the 26 through 28 style. The knockoff emblems on a 1928 say Stutz with wings - the emblems are actually have cloisonne white backgrounds. The 26 and 27 had the more conventional nickel plated brass plate with black backgrounds. Again 'Stutz' with wings, but more detail in the wings.

Best Regards,

Brian

[alsancle]

Hmmmm, that helps. Does the 27-28 have the Timken front axel? There is a number stamped on there but I don't have it in front of me. It is 145 inch wheelbase, but the front crossbrace where the chassis number is supposed to be has been removed.

thanks! A.J.

[alsancle]

The front axel is "73 R Timken 40879". The front brakes are Lockheed Wagnor. The lube system is NOT Bijur. The front shocks are Gabriel. It looks like it is an AA or a BB. Now I just have to figure out which.

thanks for the help - A.J.

[28StutzCabriolet]

Looks like you have a 1928 BB. The shocks should be single action, strap actuated Delco-Lovejoy hydraulic shocks. Earlier cars used the mechanical strap snubbers. The 1927 used a bladder style brake. The BB uses a conventional looking wheel cylinder made of steel with a bleeder screw. Just for fun, you should check you rear end ratio - being 145" wheelbase, it is probably a stump puller. Ratios were 3.6, 3.8, 4, 4.25, 4.75, 5, 5.25, 5.5 to 1. If the housing is not too rusty, the number is stamped on the rearward face of the right axle tube, a few inches from the brake backing plate. Alternately, you can pull the cover with four bolts on the back of the worm, in the center of the rear end. The number will be stamped on the end of the worm along with a serial number. Be sure no to loose the shims. Alas, my 28' BB convertible coupe has a 5.25 to 1. Either there were lots of hills in Philadelphia, or the original owner was a slowpoke!

Regards,

Brian in Santa Cruz, CA

[K8096]

Your info on where to find the rear axle ratio was interesting. On all the Stutz rear axles I have, the ratio # is stamped on the main housing itself. On the passanger side there is a flat spot on the bottom half where the number is stamped. Maybe it's stamped in more than one place. I'll have to look where you stated. I think the most common ratios were 4.5 for a closed car & 4.25 for open cars. The 3.6 & 3.8 were I believe for racing only.

[alsancle]

Does the 28 BB front motor mount connect at the middle front of the engine like a Model A Duesenberg, or does it connect on the sides like the rear mounts? The reason I'm asking is that that this chassis had a different motor transplanted into it at one time and I'm trying to determine if existing brace front is original (it is not evident from the welding).

I will try to get the axel ratio this weekend.

A.J.

[alsancle]

Let me clarify my last reply, Does the front of the engine have yoke or shaft that settles into the mount with a cap that bolts on over it? I hate to ask but if anyone has a picture of this mount I would really appreciate it.

A.J.

[K8096]

Yes, the timing cover has a rounded part where the crank goes through. This rounded part sets in the front cross member of the frame. There is a big U bolt that holds it in place then. The one exception to this is if you have a 1929 - 1930 6 cylinder Blackhawk. They had a different front motor mount system where two arms protruded out from either side on the timing cover to bolt to the frame. Now what some racing guys do is they take a 6 cylinder timing cover and put it on the 8 cylinder engine (they interchange). The Blackhawk timing cover with the two protruding arms makes the car a better handler in the corners for racing purposes.

[alsancle]

I found the chassis number on the right rear bumper bracket which confirms the car is a 28 BB. The numbers stamped on the right rear axel housing were as follows:

On top, one of the following CV0, JV0 or GVC. On the bottom, 349. Anyone know what those numbers work out to?

A.J.

[alsancle]

Today my dad and I decided to check the rear-end ratio. I haven't been able to decipher the stamps in my last post. 2.7 turns of the drive shaft result in 1 turn of the wheel. Does that make it a 2.70 rear? In theory that would make for quite a high top end. I would assume somebody must have made up some special gears as I've seen no reference to Stutz gears this high?

A.J.