Guest C.F.Massie Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Ok all you 3800 V6 gurus, my engine has 210k now and I have never had to change the timing chain. How long have any of you out there gone without replacing it? I figure I'm running on borrowed time but I'm waiting to see how long it will go before I hear anything to indicate it should be changed. I've heard some stories about it not lasting much past 60 - 80K, is that accurate?C.F.Massie 89 Red/Tan 210K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greg Ross Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 '89 had the benifit of the improved tensioner that didn't prematurely wear out. That said, I think you'd be impressed with the apparent improvement in performance you'd get from having the timing correct. Wear and chain stretch have that effect. Of course you can just wait til you hear the pitter-patter of little valves clattering into the top of Pistons to alert you that you've waited just a little too long! Seriously, when I had to replace the chain, sprockets and tensioner(@ 110K) on my '88 there was a noticeable improvement in response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Just to reinforce what Greg said, chains stretch very slowly but by 100k miles the chain has stretched enough to retard the cam a couple of degrees and in a car that has been chastened for a lack of ponies, that is not a good thing.Consequently most people are surprised by the performance gain in replacing the chain, sprockets and tensioners.My 88s turned a number of sub 8.5 second 0-60s but it does not have near 100k on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Mine broke around 110K with no warning whatsoever. Performance noticeably improved after repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EDBS0 Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 181,000 before I sold my first 89 Reatta, no noise or problems. My 2nd 89 had it done 5,000 miles before I purchased it and it is quicker. I believe you will notice a big change. Would be interesting to do some WOT timed runs before and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spongebob Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 i changed mine at 100k, it looked wore out to me (tentioner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Anyone have a rough guesstimate of cost for the improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewlawe Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 While replacing the cam sensor,I decided to have the chain, sprockets and tensioner replaced @ 116000 miles by an excellent local mechanic. Labor andparts just about $200-$225 in 4/2004.Slight but noticable improvement in response.1989 white/blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spongebob Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 plan on replacing the oil pan gasket..Oh and the little pvc grommet too.i did everything on the front of the engine when i did mine, heater hoses, water pump,valve cover gaskets..just about everything..took about a 1/2 a day..i didnt notice any differance in performance, and my tensioner was ...maybe 7/8 worn through.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Use the new style FelPro oil pan gasketCharlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Think a dealer will charge about 6 hours labor. $225 is cheap. Would strongly recommend changing the water pump while apart. Not that bad a job with cover on the car but much easier off. Might also want to mike the oil pump but personnaly have never seen a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C.F.Massie Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Thanks to all of you with your responses, I thought I might be pushing my luck not chaning it all out sooner. I did have a water pump changed about three years ago and the alternator but nothing else major to the engine so far. I can't believe how reliable the 3800 really is, even with the lack of performance. Guess I will go ahead and do the change out now before I hear the tell tale noise start. It would be interesting to see how much difference the response will be afterward. I'll take some time runs at the local strip before and after and post the results. Thanks again, man this site is the greatest since sliced bread.P.S. I.m about ready to finish up on the restoration of my 71 Pantera and will take her to the strip also, didn't get a chance to run her with before times but it will be interesting just the same to see what a 650 hp engine in it will do. I'm expecting in the range of 10.5 to 11.5 sec. @ 125 - 140 mph, that may be optomistic but we'll see, she only weighs 2100 lbs. C. F. Massie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest F14CRAZY Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 OT, but the Pantera sounds fun. And they look cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Lack of perceived performance is part of the reason they last a long time, few regularly wind them out.At the same time the 8.5 second 0-60 my 88 clocks is about two seconds faster than most V-8 cars of the sixties (In 1963, a 10-10.5 second 0-60 was the norm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Question....In 1990 to '91, was the 3800 comparable competition wise to the Jap Jobs of the same period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 What is the criteria? The 3800 certainly lasts a lot longer and is cheaper to maintain than anything Japanese. Power is about the same as most 3-3.5 liter engines but is much lower revving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Click Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Hi Ya'll, new here and figured this would be a good place to ask this. I've got an 88 Reatta and we are doing the timing chain. My question is about the timing chain dampener. The old one had disintegrated into the oil pan we assume. The only thing left was a small bolt that attached it to the block. Anyway, the new one is different with the bolt being longer than the one we removed. It seems to fit but when we tighten it down, it squeezes the spring so that it won't move. Are we tightening it to much or do I have the wrong part? Any advice would help. Thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 A photo of what you have would be helpful, but there are two different styles of mounting. One has a chamfered hole in the block, the other is for a flat or flush hole. If memory serves, the bolt should have a shoulder to tighten without binding the spring. Does the new bolt match the one you took out? It sounds like it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 All 88s should receive the 89 style tensioner. Much more robust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Click Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the fast reply's. Heres a picture of the tensioner I have. Like you said above, " the bolt should have a shoulder to tighten without binding the spring " Thats the problem. Do I have a faulty tensioner? What was left of the old tentioner wasn't much but it does not match the new one. What little I drove my new toy (about 5 miles), I really enjoyed. Can't wait till shes back together. Thanks for all the help Edited May 8, 2016 by Click Forgot picture (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 (edited) That is the new style tensioner. Judging by the picture, the hole in the block should be flat, with just a slight chamfer around the hole. Does yours have a larger counter-bore with the threads recessed a distance? If that is the case, you may get away with a small flat washer to stop the shoulder from falling into the hole, although I have never tried this? The tensioner does not line up with the chain in the center of the shoe. It actually rides off center toward the outside edge. This is a byproduct of the narrower chain necessitated by the addition of the balance shaft. Photo of new and old style tensioner. Edited May 8, 2016 by 2seater (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Click Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 So get this! When we tightened down the TC cover, that bolt head on the new tensioner cracked the cover. It clearly sticks out too far! Has anyone used this newly configured tensioner? WTF am I doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I have used it a couple of times, but have had wear issues with it as can be seen in the photo at 38k miles. As far as fitment, I have had no issues. I do not know of any differences between the '88 timing cover and later models but have not had an '88 apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 These are a couple of poor photos of the two styles of tensioner. The new style, severely worn and the original 92k miles tensioner installed in place of the new one for comparison. They "should" be interchangeable unless the mounting hole is somehow different. The very dark pic is of the face of the engine block where the tensioner mounts. Not easy to see, but the best I have at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) Click, The OEM style tensioner could still be had as of three years ago from a local (to me) privately owned auto parts store here in Valparaiso,IN. If you try to get one from the national chains you'll probably end up with the new style tensioner. If you have access to a 'Mom & Pop" Auto parts store you should start there. Take the original one with you so they can see the difference. If you have no luck there, let me know. I could try my local store to see if the OEM tensioner can still be had here. John F. Edited May 11, 2016 by Machiner 55 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 OK, found reference in the '93 P&A to two different blocks: one with a chamfered bolt hole and another with a countersunk. Each takes a different bolt. Second there is a TSB that came out in 90 about the redesigned damper. 25535668 that is apparently still available. See below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I think the bottom line is you have to buy the correct timing chain tensioner for your engine - depending on if you have a chamfered mounting hole (where the bolt screws in) or a counter bored mounting hole - regardless of the model year. 1988-1990 models all had two part numbers to choose from for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Click Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 And another day goes by. Had the TC cover crack welded but that new style tensioner will NOT allow me to put the cover on. Am I the only one with an 88? Could they have changed that cover in 89? Did someone replace this cover with a cover from a different 3800? All I do know is that the cover will not go on with that new tentioner. The only option I see is to find an old style tentioner. Any help locating one would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Click said: Am I the only one with an 88? No, I have one. They may have changed to a different cover in '89. There are several differences between a '88 and a '89 model. Edited May 11, 2016 by Ronnie (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 TSB sounds like the same later tensioner is for all, it is the bolt that changed. I'd want to do some measuring first but the mention of over tightening on the tensioner sounds like the wrong bolt. It is a special shoulder bolt. Can anyone verify ? I do not have an 88 (only one that has "3800" cast in the plenium) with the timing cover off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Click Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 38 minutes ago, Ronnie said: No, I have one. They may have changed to a different cover in '89. There are several differences between a '88 and a '89 model. I take it you've never been into the timing chain area of your 88? I'll be stopping by a couple dealers tomorrow in search of the old style tensioner. Wish me luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Click said: I take it you've never been into the timing chain area of your 88? I'll be stopping by a couple dealers tomorrow in search of the old style tensioner. Wish me luck! No, I've never had mine apart so I can't offer any hands on experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Click Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 59 minutes ago, Ronnie said: No, I've never had mine apart so I can't offer any hands on experience. Might be a good thing for the Reatta store in your links to carry. IJS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 OK are two different tensioners I found: the CLOYES 95175 for the chamfered hole and the CLOYES 95295 for the counterbored both used from 1985 to 1994 apparently on the same cars which makes little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 4 hours ago, padgett said: OK are two different tensioners I found: the CLOYES 95175 for the chamfered hole and the CLOYES 95295 for the counterbored both used from 1985 to 1994 apparently on the same cars which makes little sense. Same thing in the Sealed Power line. As I said before, you have to use the correct tensioner based on the mounting hole design in your block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 In fact the SP uses the same last three digits as the Cloyes 175 and 295 (common in aftermarket). What I have not found is why/when there are two different designs since they seem to have both been used for several years. And why the TSB just has one common replacement (175). Were there two different plants machining 3800 blocks ? OTOH if the chamfered (175) has a smaller step than the 295 (counterbored), would make more sense. Will know next week, have one of each coming in. Have seen GM does something similar for service parts before in oil filters (PF 23 and 24 with 24 the common replacement & PF 51 and 52 with 52 common). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Click Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) Welp, I found an older style tentioner 125 miles from my house. So me and my mechanic wondered why they changed tentioners mid way throgh a model year. It seems that the spring wears the little lip of plastic off the back side of the tentioner which causes the spring to slip off the tentioner and fall out of its mounting hole. Heres what we came up for a fix. We tapped a small hole into the mounting bolt and inserted a screw into it so the spring can not come off. Behold the picture below. I'll take another picture of it mounted just before we button it up. Edited May 13, 2016 by Click early oldtimers (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Received the 175, 295 should be here Wed, then I'll know what the difference is. I do remember being told a long time ago not to use the OEM tensioner in an 88, use the later one. Note the special bolt shoulders below the tensioner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Click Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 That style tentioner will not fit under the timing chain cover in my 88. That bolt head sticks up to far. I should be golden using the old style with the new and improved spring holder screw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Click, I didn't know there was an issue with the spring coming free of the tensioner lever but, that's a "right fine" solution to the issue. Looking forward to the "mounted" photo. John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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