Reatta Prototypes

[scourge]

I do hope that <span style="font-weight: bold">reattadudes</span> is telling the truth about the car in Georgia and not just BSing the board. If real, I hope that everyone understands that on the Net it is easy to exaggerate a story and lead people along. After one has been online for many years, its easy to become skeptical even to the point of being cynical.

I found this on another board I post at and I just though it was interesting considering what we are considering:

new dahlback racing polo

All the naysayers drunk on their Haterade fail to realize that making a FWD into a RWD has been done many times. All it takes is some money, creativity, and most importantly tenacity.

PS. There are 22 pictures in total and the suspension shots are 11-14.

[Rawja]

You can believe the ReattaDudes. Mike has a long history on this board, and if he says somthing, you can "put it in the bank".

[RGILL]

I have a copy of "Inside Buick", put out for Buick employees and the Spring 1989 issue has an article showing 2 Reattas. One a FWD turbo charged and the other a RWD turbo charged. They tried racing them, but wrecked them and apparently that was the end of the experiment. Any body that wants a copy of the article, send $2.00 to cover cost of copy and postage.

Ron Gill

7508 W. Chadwick

Dewitt, Mi 48820

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I heard about that. Some idiot reporter or something crashed one of the better cars this world has seen.

[scourge]

I was hoping to be wrong but it is good to be skeptical online. Anyone want ot open your bank account up to a government minister from Nigeria?

As for wrecking the RWD car, was it wrecked due to a design flaw or incapable driver? If its the former...well, it'll be tough to overcome but if it is the latter then its no big deal. Can't anyone just can to article and post up attachments?

[scourge]

I am very interested in this car to see just how GM did it. I am also looking into buying a Cadillac Allante and doing the same thing. I post at a Cadillac board in the Allante Forum and in the post below, you can just substitute "Reatta" for "Allante" and "3800 SeriesII" for "Northstar" as I asked about both cars. In fact, the Buick swap would be cheaper due to the more availability of Bucik engines and parts.

I live in Tennessee where there are lots of shops for dragracers and circle track racers and I was hoping living in such a place would have a capable shop.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Performance Concepts

1259 NW Broad St, Murfreesboro, TN 37129

Phone: (615) 890-9755

Owner: Eddie Carlisle</span>

Well, went to talk to him today and I gotta say that this guy is the second coolest shop guy I have ever talked to in the USA! The other was Bill MacDowell, owner of Wild Bill's Electronics in Boaz, Alabama. I'll post up what he told me and if anyone wants to verify it, they are free to visit a local shop of their own. Might be a good idea as I am not a mechanic and you might get a better price.

So,

When I popped the idea to him, Eddie never blinked his eyes and said matter of factly and instantly that it could "easily" be done - that is, easily for a fabricator with years of racing experience. He thought the idea was really cool and in fact, there are a lot of "pro stock" racers doing exactly what I am thinking about for the Allante. And, not entirely the same thing, but the shop has a late '70s Malibu that is getting tubbed so they are doing the same thing for that car that they would have to do to an Allante...or even a mid-90s Eldorado. He said making a FWD car into RWD was more common than some people realize...people outside the racing world.

Eddie is more into drag racing and the shop car has a turbocharged Camaro putting down over 600hp. I liked the idea that he was very familar with what I was wanting to do and he has seen it/done it before with other cars for racing. That it why he first suggested a Ford 9" rear and that it would be an easy job as they fab this rear for several draggers who come in. I mentioned the Vette IRS and he said that for street driving that it would be even better. Plus, C4 Vettes are plentiful and some should be able to be found in a junk yard. Need the front engine cradle to be customized for the Northstar and the IRS can easily be cut out. One went on EBAY for less than $600 just today!

He did ask why I wanted the Northstar and I said the keep the Caddy theme going. The T-56 Tremec will need its bellhousing modified, but he said he was familar with that (from streetrodders) and that it was no problem. He did warn about the cost of repairing a North* as compared to an LS1 pluss the cheaper cost and more power of the Chevy engine. I see his point but I'd rather go Caddy for the engine. I didn't take pics of the Malibu's custom rear and now I wish I had.

When it came to price, he said it depends on sourcing the parts from a salvage yard (I got that part covered) as that's a cost he cannot control. But, he said that he could easily see it being done for $5000, but that he wanted to give himself some room so he quoted $5000-$8000. I asked him worse case scenario what the cost would be. He said he didn't know because so many things happen in a swap, but mentioned that he could not see EVERYTHING costing over $10,000+cost of the donor car. I would like to get an estimate in writing, but for such a project, I don't think that any shop would.

I then asked him a time frame and mentioned 2months. He said he could definitely finish it all in 3months. He does a good business and his workers seemed hard at it especially getting a truck ready in time for a show. There is a car show every Friday night at the Stones River Mall in Murfreesboro (in the back) and he left to take his Camaro to the show. I left the show before he got there though.

So, if anyone wants to call Eddie at Performance Concepts in Murfreesboro I posted the number and address. I can give directions and its easy to get to. Its on US Highway41 that parallels I-24 from Nashville to Chattanooga and across from HOOTERS!. I was hoping that having so many drag racing/NASCAR-BUSCH shops in the area would come in handy with this project and so it seems all can work out.

Eddie said to come in once I got a car and we could work out all the details from engine mounts, to installing the tranny through the floorboard, if a custom welded tunnel would be needed, moving the gas tank, cutting out the spare tire well, and other odds and ends. In the end though, he thought the idea was really cool and didn't see why Allante owners would get so pissy and insist that it couldn't be done. He has been fabbing and racing for years so once he gets the geometry down (I kept saying "measurements" but I learned its more correct to say geometry), its just a matter of cutting and welding.

Hope this info proves useful.

[Rawja]

A thought occured to me while reading your post regarding your Reatta/Allante conumdrum.

Wouldn't the Allante's convertable configuration make it a poor candidate for the conversion? Seems to me it would get especially flexy, especially compared to a Reatta coupe, no?

[scourge]

It could be an issue, but considering the shop builds drag racing cars, they can design a very stiff setup for the rear. I didn't mention it, but I had alrady planned on a rear tower bar, custom sway bars (unless aftermarket Vette upgrades can fit) and a rollbar.

I put a rear tower tower bar and sway bars on my Skyline and I could tell an immediate difference. I didn't have a rollcage, but I rode in some cars that did and I can say they were rock solid. Drifters who have convertibles often use a small rollbar.

I'd do these things with the Reatta/Allante even if it remained FWD. The spare tire well will be lost and so will some trunk space, but since the car won't be a grocery getter anyway, it won't matter. Just so long as the carpet goes over the new custom floorpan and nothing looks out of place, I'll be happy. I prefer sleepers over anything guady.

[scourge]

I'm moving forward on an Allante that I found nearby, but I just wanted to post somethig that I found and bump this thread to see if there has been any action.

---

Found another FWD to RWD conversion kit. Man, I thought such swaps never happened off the drag racing track.

http://www.mantapart.com/

Click on the link for <span style="font-weight: bold">Performance Engine Parts</span>

and then scroll down to <span style="font-weight: bold">Quad 4 RWD Conversion</span>

Again, its the geometry and actual cutting and welding that seem to be the $$$$ issues.

[scourge]

Bump.

[scourge]

Thought that this was interesting:

Found something interesting on EBAY:

Yes, it is on this:

EBAY CAR

"Custom Zipper designed IRS and Corvette hubs with polished Aldan

adjustable coil-overs."

You know, I'm really sick of loudmouth haters who get pissy when their uneducated and unwanted opinion is rejected. Been banned from two forums after telling members that I don't care what they think only that I'm interested in FACTS. Eh, some people think that they know everything and can't take others not just bowing to their opinion.

It's mainly a lot on non-welders who think that I should worship their opinion and do exactly what they say without question. It pisses me off to so often see the same replies about "cost, it's hard, just get a FR car, and I don't think you should do it" as though they are brand new ideas and that I am too stupid to have researched for a few weeks and will continue to do so for a few more.

There are ways. Its just a matter of finding them and working out the math. Going to talk in person to a custom rod shop as soon as I can. Slowly inching forward and unlike some people (perhaps), I'm serious as hell about finding out more about the GM made prototype to emulate it once I see it.

Haven't heard anything in a few days. Hope its not all DOA.

[Guest imported_barra]

The press kit that accompanied the 1988 Reatta showed a drawing of one that had the T-Tops.

Personally, I prefer to keep a car's appearance as created but I lack the skill and ability to see what could be. Go for it.

[scourge]

The appearance would remain, except for new wheels and lowered about inch. On the inside, only the BRIDE seats and manula stick would be seen. All the rest would be tucked away and covered by carpet unless viewed from below. I prefer a sleeper look over all others.

I can't do welding for squat but I can find those who can.

[Guest imported_barra]

These cars after all were considered "personal" luxury vehicles.

[scourge]

Just bought the July 1989 <span style="font-weight: bold">Car & Driver</span> issue that has the RWD Reatta. Will check out a shop next week that makes hand built roadsters to see what they say.

[scourge]

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

http://whitetrashdesign.ca/images/crystalballbuicks/gallery.htm

Oh well, at least I'll have a hard copy.

I guess there will be no action taken on the RWD Reatta that supposedly was in Georgia. Damn, I am really serious about plotting out a plan and it would have been very helpful had the car really existed/or at least I had access to it/the owner.

I PMed <span style="font-weight: bold">reattadudes</span> and I am so looking forward to some positive news. I want to be wrong and surprised that the RWD Reatta exists in Georgia and maybe I can have access to it whether or not it is for sale.

[luftweg]

... All I wanna say is that I'm rootin' for ya to succeed! If I had the time -- and the know-how -- I would offer my help ...

K

[scourge]

Appreciate that. I certainly lack the know-how and that is why I am researching and will use a qualified shop when the time comes. Also, had this conversion never been done before, then there is no way in hell that I would ever consider doing it!

Is anyone else 100% committed to doing this?

[scourge]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... All I wanna say is that I'm rootin' for ya to succeed! If I had the time -- and the know-how -- I would offer my help ...

K </div></div>

Talked to a shop today and as I understand it, IF one can see what GM did and copy that, then it's quite doable. But, if one tries to figure it out and then custom fab everything using all new parts, then the cost will skyrocket into the tens of thousands of dollars. I lack the tools to do anything myself to save money. As of now, I have one shop telling me no problem and one shop telling me impossible for under $50k.

So, unless I can see the actual GM prototype and get measurements and see exactly what parts were used, this project is without question dead. I'm still waiting on a reply to my PM to <span style="font-weight: bold">reattadudes</span> about the car in Augusta.

My view is, <span style="font-style: italic">hey, I can't afford to buy the car so there is no danger of me undercutting him. The car is a piece of history and thus will cost a premium whereas a custom made car will not be. If no one does buy the car and the owner's information will not be divulged then fine, we just need some pics and measurements. Let's git-r-done.</span>

[manikmekanik]

10-4 on the "view"

[scourge]

Somehow, this post from another member got deleted:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1.) a second rear-wheel Reatta would not devaluate the first one; it would take many dozens to do that (although it also might generate interest and raise value on all Reattas(?))

2.) in order in maintain interest in Reattas, information about maintaining an modifying should be shared; although those 'pioneers' may feel that others are just stealing their ideas after they did all the hard work -- perhaps there is a middle ground somewhere?</div></div>

IF <span style="font-weight: bold">reattadudes</span> is planning to keep the car all to himself so that he can make and market his own RWD kit, then it is certainly his right to do so. I would say that all information should be shared, but it can also be business. That's fine and I can live with that. However, IF this is the case, then it would be helpful if he would just post up that this is what he is planning on doing and we'll be able to get the work done at his shop on such and such date.

As of now, we are just flapping in the wind. Once we see a ballpark timeline then we can all just shut up and wait until then. That's just my humble .02Yen.

[manikmekanik]

Amen on the business end. Free enterprise. We're the market, created by a thread on a forum. Pre-defined and pre-identified, looking for a product which does not yet exist in this form. If I had the proto, it's EXACTLY what I would do with it.

If he can produce a kit, I'm in! I'd do it to one of my convertibles!

If he can produce the cars, he should get a TV show like the guy doing "Elanor" clones! Then Reatta values would surpass Mustangs!

Make a car worth stealing, and they'll make a movie about stealing it!

[Guest MauiWowee]

Whoa! Let's not make assumptions about Reattadudes or anybody else. There could be many reasons why there has not been an update on the negotiations for this rare RWD. Patience, patience.

After all, maybe after abducting him, the aliens are not through analyzing his brain to find out why he devotes so much time and effort on a 14 year old car.

[Rawja]

Let's give Mike a break here guys. He's on the road ALL THE TIME.

If you want to chat him up about the Prototype, give him a call. His number is listed on his website.

Given what I know about him this is not about "keeping it to himself".

Likely he hasn't seen this thread or PMs recently; also additionally likely, the fella in Georgia isn't interested in sharing.

[scourge]

Didn't mean to give the impression that I was being accusatory. I don't know anyone here well enough to be so. I was saying that if Mike wants the prototype to develop kits himself, then he is certainly within all rights to do so. He found the car, so to the victor goes the spoils.

Don't really want to ship a car all the way to his shop to get it done, but if the price is right then I'd be willing. If he is busy, cool deal. That's easily understandable and I don't want to start an avalance of posts against Mike.

It's just that patience is not my strong suit.

[Rawja]

Then give him a call, he's actually a pretty "chatty" guy, especially so on one-off Reattas.

[Guest Greg Ross]

I would expect Mike will check in when he gets home.

On the subject of ReattaDudes building a kit for a RWD Reatta, I'd seriously doubt it. I've met Mike several times and I wouldn't have thought anything like this would sit high in his business plans. He's invested in renewal projects, door panels, seats etc and as far as I heard last, he's still trying to bring the Contvert. Sun Visor Clips to market.

I'm afraid if you want to spin your (rear) wheels you're going to have to dig deep and build it yourself. To re-engineer just the electrical for either an '88-89 or '90-91 and produce a wiring harness you're into thousands of dollars. And structurally, it's a monsterous project.

Go buy an old Vette or 5.0L Mustang and get this out of your system.

I'm driving an '88 3800 Series I/ SC/ 5-Spd. and the driveline is all renewed in the last 15,000 miles. The car is showing 300,000 miles, 240,000 of which are mine. Last time I tallied up, and it's been a while I've got in the neighbourhood of $50,000(cdn) spent. It's been my choice in transportation for about 8 years, and main daily driver for most of that time. One of the accountant types can crunch the numbers, depreciation and cost per mile, etc and say whether I got good value. All I know is I've had fun with mine, drove what I wanted to and made it the way I wanted it. And all I've got to show for it is a "Modified Buick"

[scourge]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would expect Mike will check in when he gets home.</div></div>

I'll wait a few days and call him next week.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm afraid if you want to spin your (rear) wheels you're going to have to dig deep and build it yourself. To re-engineer just the electrical for either an '88-89 or '90-91 and produce a wiring harness you're into thousands of dollars.</div></div>

How is this? You're using the same engine in the car but simply turning it longitudinal using a Firebird crossmember and transmission. Direct bolt up. I've already looked into this with F-Body owners. Now, if you're going to swap engines then I would say yes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And structurally, it's a monsterous project.</div></div>

Not really....once/if the prototype can be seen and measured. All one would do then is copy what GM did. I would agree that doing this all on one's own without a guide would be a Herculean effort, but with a guide all one need do is copy it. Not saying it's easy but the front is the easy part while the rear subframe is where the money will go. It's doable.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go buy an old Vette or 5.0L Mustang and get this out of your system.</div></div>

Nope, I will never be part of the herd. Nothing wrong with being part of the herd, but that is not nor will it ever be me. I'm interested in one of four cars and not one is common.

Not saying you think this way, but I am so tired of hearing those who get exposed to a new idea and then poo-poo it simply because it's not something they personally are into or thought up. <span style="font-style: italic">Uhhhhhh, being different sho is hahhd. Why dont'chu stop yer thank'an and juss be like uhverone else, ok. Baaaaa. Baaaaaa. Don't stray from duh herd. Baaaaaa.</span>

[Guest MauiWowee]

From the clues given in the magazine article, you already know that a GM RWD rear chassis and an adapted Corvette suspension was used. After fabricating the trans hump, it almost sounds simple. Well, Mr Ross gently tried to 'splain that there are always many obstacles to overcome. He does have the "Best Modified" (most unique on the forum) Reatta in the world. It ain't as easy as they make it look in magazines and on TV. The devil is ALWAYS in the details, especially when you take a walk on the wild side.

But, go for it. I think there will always be constructive comments and support here for your project. (patience, patience, there's no sheep here)

[scourge]

WOW! Check out what <span style="font-style: italic">Year One</span> was able to do with a new HHR!!!

http://www.hhrclub.org/galleries/hhr-custom-by-year-one/

This is some money here. Test drove one today and my only complaint is that the front seats are not long enough for me. I need more butt/thigh support going toward my knees than what the LT model I drove had. Still a sweet ride and the PT Loozer is still as fugly as the day it was introduced.

[scourge]

bump.

[55chevy]

Interesting discussion. I checked my old Reatta file folder, Hot Rod also did a 2 page feature on the Reatta and Regal prototypes in their June 1989 Issue (pp 18/19), I will try to scan and see how it comes out. The interesting item is a black line 'ghost' drawing of the Reatta rear wheel drive Turbo, (the term for this type pic escapes me) it is labeled AC Adavance Concepts. It shows the driveline mainly, not much other details, pic is only 2 by 3-1/2 inches.

[luftweg]

[edited]

Hey, if the RWD project comes through, I was wondering what engine would be used? Probably a GNX or some other turbo 231?

How about a Buick 215 V8 aluminum -- stroked out? (although, if it's to be streetable, I suppose the motor might need to be FI -- for emissions sake)

Or a Buick 300 or 330 V8? Could add a TBI to it I suppose...

K

[2seater]

I would think a turbo or S/C Buick V6 would match the suspension tuning of the front suspension although the trans. will be located further back to change the weight bias a little. Both would be relatively emissions friendly. Actually any engine would likely fit (no Chebbies please), and could be injected for driveabilty. Hood clearance even with the stock engine turned north-south would likely be a problem, but it would pale in comparison to the rest of the project. As for the independant rear end, don't count out stuff like the Datsun/Nissan Z-cars. They are plenty stout too. An interesting project but way beyond my ability.

[Guest allbuick]

In addition to being in the Buick parts busines since 1981 I have been in the race gas business since 1985. Being the Arizona distributor for Sunoco Race Fuels I remember taking a delivery of 4 drums of 100 octane unleaded race gas to Firebird Raceway just South of Phoenix in the fall of I think '87. I am not exactly sure about the exact date but it was around then. Buick Motor Division of GM had orderd the fuel and when I went there I saw a fleet of Buicks. After I unloaded the gas I was looking at one car that I had never seen before (that turned out to be a Reatta). Hoods were closed and cars were setting around and I was looking under that back of this little red 2 seater and saw corvette looking rear suspension. I tried to look under the front but was told I couldn't. Someone told me the car had the Grand National drivetrain in it. They pointed to another one that was FWD that was also a turbo car. The guy told me that someone had just crashed one of the FWD cars. I thought "cool, Buick is doing a Corvette kind of car".

Never saw a RWD Reatta again but wish now I would have known more aobut what I was looking at, and had gotten to see more. This was a closed session and only those with proper credentials were allowed on the property.

The question I have never been able to find out about was how did they steer the RWD car? If you try to put a GN engine/trans in a Reatta the Rack and Pinion steering runs right through the middle of the torque converter. The way GM did a lot of these prototype was to mix and match modified parts to make things work. The rear is pretty easy. The front I have no clue. Anybody know?

[scourge]

Well, I found out the deal. Nothing is going to happen for 3 more weeks. No big deal as action is still being taken. I will not report the asking price for the car, but I will say that it is soooooo out of my price range.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

So what? Who cares what its costs. It's a one of a kind turbo-ed rear wheel drive Reatta! A certifiable supercar.

F the L67. I blew out a '00 era 4 door GTP with my mom's Durango the other night (yeah, its got a Hemi)

[scourge]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what? Who cares what its costs. It's a one of a kind turbo-ed rear wheel drive Reatta! A certifiable supercar.</div></div>

Reattadudes is working on obtaining it. I don't want to screw him over by allowing someone else to come in with a better bid to get the car. To me, it's a respect thing.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I do understand.

My point was that to anyone (ie Reattadudes), it's like the best car on earth. Go for it! I wish him/them luck.

Aw man if I ever drove a flippin turbo-ed rear wheel drive Reatta I'd be peeling like a mo fo

[Jibby]

I peel like a Mo Fo, in my front wheel drive, 2000 Regal. In fact, I taught a person in an 8-cylinder, 7 series BMW, an important lesson about intelligence, today.

That is, that he spent $50,000+ on his German engineered, piece of shiznit. And I SPANKED him, hardcore, with my $8,000, 2000 Buick Regal. I really did SPANK him, hardcore. Him, and his girlfriend, and best friend, and 7 Series Bimmah.

He was so <span style="font-style: italic">humiliated</span> that he ditched off, into a side road. If you ditch, you're just a little (bleep)!

You see, I was pissed that as I was doing 65 in a 45, he still seemed to think that he should pass me. You know, probably to impress his girl. But all he accomplished was a night <span style="font-style: italic">without</span> booty from his girl, because he's such a moronic tool. In fact, she probably screamed at him, for putting her life in danger.

I can think of one word for BMW...

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Over-rated</span></span>

And if my 6-cylinder Buick can out-run, and out-manuever an 8 cylinder car... that's just sad...