1926 Theophile Schneider 13/50 LeMans, is it considered Classic?

[Guest]

Hello all, Just a simple query about whether a 1926 Theophile Schneider LeMans 13/50 sports tourer is considered a full classic.

[Guest]

Not that it really matters much,I know some vintage sportscars are recognized classics {tip'o the chapeau to P H}

My friend Christos said I'd be pissing against the wind with this one.......

[Shawn Miller]

Not that I am aware of...it isnt on the list anyway! HA! must admit I haven't ever heard of this car. Generally speaking race cars are not considered for Full Classic Status.

Sounds like one of those obscure cars you would need to individually nominate. Jon Lee has done a lot in the past few years to get European cars that have formerly been overlooked (due primarily to their rarity this side of the pond)on our list.

Do you have an image? any history on the marque? very curious about this one.

[JLee]

Please allow me to assure you of two things:

1. As concerns the Theo. Schenider, the Classification Committee is committed to a review of any properly submitted application, so there should be no relation between any bodily functions versus any weather patterns.

2. As Shawn mentions, we are actively working on some suggestions for inclusion of various Foreign makes, and Theo. Schneider is one make on this list. An application from a member carries more weight than a proposal from within the Committee. In years past, it was required that an applicant for Series Application own one of the cars. While the Committee would prefer that be the case, it is no longer an absolute requirement. I hope we see an application for the 13/50 Model as it had some very interesting racing background.

Some of the recent research that I have been doing may be postponed for a while while we recover from a rather severe fire in our house that has destroyed much of the recent work I have been doing on the computer (I hope some information may be able to be recovered by my Computer Engineer son) and a considerable part of my Automotive library.

Meanwhile, the work of the Classification Committee continues. The more information you can provide with an application, the better the Committee will be equipped to make a proper decision.

Jon Lee

[Guest]

Let me clarify that the Th. Schneider plus all cars mentioned below were essentially standard production cars in their era.

Well, I happen to be looking at several for sale right now,one of which is an untouched original. I believe certain vintage sports cars are quite undervalued and overshadowed by Bentley,Vauxhall,Alfa etc, thus there are many bargains out there for sale right now that were well known in their day but nearly forgotten now.

How many have heard of the Ansaldo 4CS 2 liter, or the O.M.Tipo 665 2 liter which came in 1st,2nd and 3rd in the first Mille Miglia?

As to the Th. Schneider................

A very well made French Marque,they began in 1910 and cut their teeth in Grand Prix and Coupe de l'auto racing events.

Originally they had Renault-like dash radiators which the production cars retained I think 'til about 1924.

In 1925 they introduced the 13/50 2 liter OHV LeMans model which was produced up to 1929 with little change, it compared favorably with Delage DISS and Lorraine Dietrich 20/70 Sports, what it lacked in top speed was balanced out by it's durability and excellent road holding.

These were known at the time as "fast tourers" with quick acceleration, excellent brakes and generally, good close-ratio 4 speed boxes.

All this was gained from period auto and sports car literature where the Marques mentioned above were held in very high regard by professional drivers and amateurs alike.

Interestingly enough Bugattis were considered quite troublesome.

[JLee]

I believe that you are right on the mark with your assesment of the sporting cars of the twenties. The car you have pictured is a great looking car. One more you might add to your list is Rochet-Schneider. There is a fine looking example here in Maine that is soon to be restored.

The europeans think we in the CCCA are missing a lot of truly great cars in our listing. I happen to agree.

Jon Lee

[Guest]

The Rochet Schneider is indeed another overlooked car.

After 1924 they went to overhead valves with a strangely designed combustion chamber which prevented valves from dropping into the cylinders if broken.

Hotchkiss, Roland Pilain,Aries,Amilcar, Salmson,Chenard-Walcker and Sizaire-Berwick and many others also made great sportscars, some with competition history.

The fun part is that there are a good deal of these cars left, yet they are practically unknown on these shores.

[GRT]

This thread is fairly old but having now finaly accessed it here are my comments.

The Ths cars were made by the Ravel family at Besanscon from 1910 to 1930. Prior to this the company made engines under the name of Amstoutz Ravel which were used in some light cars. They campaigned their cars with a number of engine sizes in ACF races before WW1.

The business expanded and by the 1920s i believe nearly 1000 people were employed. The later 2 litre cars mentioned in thi dicscussion were raced at Le Mans and one team car famousley tangled with a Bentley(the Ths was wrecked but the Bentley went on to win)

I do not no what criteria your comitee is applying but having had a Ths in our family for nearly 40 years i concider it a classic.

Want to know more contact Marc Fellman who has a post elsewhere on this forum or obtain a copy of Les Automibles de Besancon 1900 -1930 by Marc Douezy

Has any one got a line on spares which are next to impossible to find?

[Marc Fellman]

This is an old thread but some threads are worth hanging on to.

Like the previous post I too have a 13/55 THS. Known in the UK as a 13/55 (and marketed as the "Le Mans" model)as opposed to a 13/50. This was essentially the 2 litre OHV operated by pushrods. In France the 13/55 was known as the "25 SP" or just the 2 litre. Small volume production at the best of times the marque struggled economically speaking through the twenties with some racing success at the likes of Le Mans, Spa and smaller events like "Routes des Pavees" and numerous hillclimbs. Reputedly timed down pit straight at the 1926 Le Mans 24 hour at 140KPH.

A handful of these cars survive. Three are known in the UK, one in Australia, one in Canada and at least two in France confirmed. A small number of veteran and other vintage THS also survive around the world.

In the course of my research I am yet to confirm any survivors in the US although I heard a rumour of one in San Diego. If there is anyone out there who has any information on surviving THS's I would be happy to communicate as I have now established a register of surviving cars of the marque. Like the previous post I too, am interested in spares.

[Argyll]

Just to add to the subject Marc, are you aware of the 1914 18 hp Schneider we have in the Museum of Transport in Glasgow, Scotland?

(Sorry about the quality of the picture, it was taken as a quick reference shot for use when I'm researching at home) -

Argyll.

[Argyll]

Hi Marc,

I've located some out of print postcards with an image of our Schneider produced by the museum a number of years ago - if you'd like a couple of them could you PM me a postal address and I'll send them off.

Argyll.

[Guest Marc F]

For those who might be interested I have developed an online register for TH. SCHNEIDER automobiles at thschneider.org. The register was formed in 2011 with a view to establishing a database of known TH.SCHNEIDER automobiles. In addition the register aims to foster communication among custodians of the marque and assist with parts and information sharing.

The register has a comprehensive archive of period revues, images, competition results & factory records.

Marc Fellman