1937 Packard

[pint4]

I am looking for a nice pair of sidemount fenders for a 1937 Packard Model 120. Also need a rear mounted trunk rack. I am looking for parts in anticipation of starting restoration in the near future. The car needs a total restoration. Not even sure what I need for the engine-only running on 5 of 8 cylinders. My email address is pint4@new.rr.com

Thanks.

Bob

[Dave Mitchell]

Hi, The 120 sidemount fenders are pretty hard to find. What body style is your car? I have probably got most of the trunk rack and a metal Jr trunk also and mechanical parts. You may have stuck valves as this is a common problem with the 120 engine if it has been sitting for a while. If it is any help to you, I have an almost completely original 37 120CD sedan with 27000 miles, and photos of it might help you in your restoration. Not to scare you off, but the 120 isn't a recognized classic in the CCCA unless it has a custom body. You are still welcome here and a lot of us who own classics also own junior Packards and like them very much - my 120 sits in the garage with 4 classic Packards including a 37 1508 which looks like its big brother! So we will help you all we can, but the site isn't really oriented to the 120s. Good Luck with the restoration! Dave (packard12s@hotmail.com)

[pint4]

Dave,

Thanks for the info. I know the 37 Packard is not a classic. But I was hoping there might be some classic car owners who worked their way up to their classic car collection having previously owned non-classics such as a 120. At some point I will own a full classic and most likely will have a bunch of 120 parts to sell to some other collector moving up through the ranks to classic car collector status. The car I am restoring is 1937 Packard 120 Convertible Coupe.

Bob

[Guest]

:cool=The way I feel as a Packard owner this junior senior Packard model thing is a nonsense. If it was made by Packard and has the Pakcard name plate on its a Packard plain and simple. Some Packards that are considered classics just happen to be more expensive than other model Pakcards. When it comes right down to it the Packard 120 was probably a better buy, $ for $ than other Packards of that time.

[Guest]

Packard 53, To a degree you are right especially with the post war cars since many of the components were shared and the bodies were almost all built by Briggs. Where my opinion would differ is in the prewar cars when the Junior cars were built to price ala GM and Ford etc. They were I agree dollar for dollar an outstanding car and a great car but the Senior line was built in the old Packard tradition of spare no expense and while a bit stodgy style wise were the finest cars money could buy . The Junior line may have been Packards and looked like the Senior Packards but were not built with the same degree of excellence. Just my humble opinion having owned both a 1938 Super 8 and a 1947 Super 8.

[Dave Mitchell]

I am a Packard nut, and have driven my 39 110 sedan over 50,000 miles. I have found it to be a wonderfully fun and reliable car with classic styling cues and at least hints of the senior heritage. I think that it was a very good value in its time and in fact a little nicer than most of its direct competitors - for instance the Buick Special of which I own a low mileage 38 example. I also own a pretty nice 37 120CD, so I appreciate the juniors, and many people claim that they saved Packard in the late '30s depression days - that I can't verify, but it could be so as many were sold. However, I feel that the juniors are not really close to the seniors, particularly up to 1939. I have had both apart and worked on various components and you can often tell a junior from a senior part without knowing the part number. The Super 8s and 12s are not just physically a lot bigger and somewhat more luxurious, the engineering and build specifications are just on a different scale - which was not possible at the price of the juniors. The frames, steering and suspension components, engines, transmissions and rear axles are just bigger, stronger and better. Would I rather drive my 37 12 or 41 Super 8s or 46 2106 Clipper than my juniors? Yes; do I look down my nose at the junior, no! They are just different cars built to to a different price and market. The juniors like my 37 sedan reflect the styling of my 37 12 sedan, and the wood grained dash and steering wheel look like the same people designed them too. Sure the 12 has real walnut and carpathian elm wood around the windows and more expensive wool used in the interior, but new it cost thousands more than the 120. It also has more horsepower and a lot more torque. The 12 rides and drives nicer than the 120. I don't mean that the 120 isn't a really nice car, it absolutely is, but there is a real difference between a junior and a senior, my friend from Canada is correct. That said, you can have a lot of fun and enjoyment with both, they all have some measure of that Packard "mystique" of a car built and sold by gentlemen for gentlemen. Sure, they were conservative and not noisy and ostentacious like some other cars of the era, and were more likely to be the car of a businessman or old money than a Hollywood star, but they were solid, overengineered, dependable cars that didn't go out of style quickly and had an image that endured. People knew it was a Packard. That is something that I miss in modern cars - I love cars but I can't tell most of them apart on the road today. Not so in the classic era.

Dave

[Su8overdrive]

Amen, Cardinal Mitchell. The 120 was a fine car in its own right. Consumer Reports in the day consistently rated it a Best Buy, and the best in its price class.

I also owned a One-Twenty, a '40 w/ overdrive. Terrific road car, a chassis streets ahead of a GMobile.

Dutch Darrin once wondered "Why the 120 isn't a Classic. But I'm glad it isn't. I can pick them up cheaper."

And no, i'm not suggesting the 120 really be a Classic. It's fine as it is, a "vintage" car, when that word still meant something.

Remember, the '36-'37 Cord 810/812 was originally intended to be a junior Duesenberg, and all Cadillacs beginning in 1936 were downsized, began sharing many components with other GMobiles.

Lincoln's Zephyr was often called "a Ford and a half," even sharing some engine parts with the concurrent Ford V-8, and having the least torque per cubic inch of any domestic car, Crosley included.

Rolls-Royce survived only as most of their business from 1935 on was aero engines, their cars borrowing heavily from Buick, Packard, Chrysler over the decades, from the early '20s through their first V-8 introduced in 1959, which their chief engineer, having a few drinks at its debut, blurted out, "It's bloody near as good as the Chrysler."

Thank you, gentlemen, for this LONG overdue thread, "Ugly Classics," about ludicrous colors and their feverish justification. So many lovely, soft, understated original colors in the '30s and '40s. Understatement in all collector cars seems to have faded in favor of "Look at Me" red and Yahoo Yellow. And, of course, whitewalls. Always whitewalls.

Don Figone, whom many of you know or know of, has an immaculate '40 180 Darrin victoria, resplendent in black, gray interior, black top, blackwalls, basic baled feather hood ornament in lieu of the usual Goddess of Speed or cormorant. No fog or driving lights. Just pure car, which you see better sans the usual options, most of which were dealer-purveyed.

If you look at pictures of, for example, Packard Twelves and Super Eights in big city showrooms in the late '30s, parked on Oriental carpets, surrounded by potted palms, you'll note that even the open, sportier body styles usually had the standard baled feather hood ornament.

Bob Mehl once remarked that in his Pittsburg, PA youth, where he and his friends snapped photos of parked "fine cars" in the '40s, you never saw foglights.

A friend decided to keep them off his Cords. Again, it helps you see the cars, the lines.

Meanwhile, to the fellow with the '37 120 and any of y'all in the greater SF Bay Area: Just Packards, 1 (707) 254-2046 is the place to take any senior or junior from the late '30s through '40s, for anything from tune up to complete rebuild.

A safe, relaxed 2011 to us all. If you haven't yet, install seatbelts, and wear them. And always carry a fire extinguisher where you can get to it, not in the trunk. We've all, us and our cars, survived this long. Let's not blow it now.

And study those original paint charts. There are some unsung, subtle hues being ignored to our detriment. We lose that much history when older members leave us. The least we can do is make the cars look like they really did, once, not so long ago. Less is more.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[CBoz]

Lincoln's Zephyr was often called "a Ford and a half," even sharing some engine parts with the concurrent Ford V-8, and having the least torque per cubic inch of any domestic car, Crosley included.

I have a '37 Lincoln-Zephyr, and if you know which parts it shares with a Ford V-8 (other than some valve parts), I'd sure be interested All kidding aside, while there may be similarities in design, I can assure you virtually nothing is interchangeable.

With regard to comparing torque to a Crosley, we need to be careful with such comparisons. The Zephyr (and contemporary Ford) definitely weren't torque kings. On the other hand, the "crummy little" Zephyr engine generated more horsepower per cubic inch (110hp / 267 cid = 0.41) than the big Packard V-12 did (175hp / 473cid = 0.37). I don't see any Packard owners complaining though ...

[Su8overdrive]

CBoz -- "Crummy little" Zephyr engine, yours, previous, sounds a mite harsh. A friend had a '41 Lincoln Continental coupe for a spell. It handled well, and i can see why so many bootleggers liked Fords, albeit hopped up a mite.

I've heard that then and now, Zephyr owners who drive hard and keep their oil clean get good service. They've also said that some valve and other engine parts, in some years, were shared with the Ford V-8, but i'll leave which ones to you and them, being a Packard man.

I'd heard all this business about Zephyr V-12s being anemic, but i thought that '41 Continental coupe went along fine, so long as you wound the engine up in each gear.

Packard Twelves and most other engines of the day were low-stressed, but the 473-ci V-12 put out a fair amount of torque, i think around 366 ft. lbs. from memory, but i'm sure Monsignor Hartman knows.

Zephyrs were well built, and had long-wearing enamel paint, correct? Good road cars, and Republic Studios put the Green Hornet and Kato in a black, stock '40 Zephyr sedan in their Saturday matinee cliffhangers.

'Course, i don't know what the Green Hornet would do if he had to catch a Buick Century or '40 Packard 160 with overdrive. Or a blown Cord, tho' a Zephyr w/ a Columbia rear axle or overdrive would cruise as fast as a non-supercharged Cord 810/812, both the Zephyr and Lycoming engines being short stroke for their day.

Also heard it was at least theoretically possible to get a Lincoln Zephyr or Continental in 1940 with b o t h a Columbia rear axle a n d overdrive, netting a final drive ratio of 2.19:1, which'd be swell in Kansas, 'lest you hit a headwind.