1925 Buick Standard Marvel Carburetor replacement

[Hubert_25-25]

I am curious.  I have a couple of Marvel carburetors for my car, and I am still a little way from starting the car.  My car uses a Marvel 10-11 Body for the Buick Standard, and the bowl says 65-10.  The Standard is 191 Cu Inch.   If I were to use another carburetor, I would prefer to stay with an updraft.  I don't really want to flip the intake and go downdraft unless there would be a major advantage.  I have pictures of another 1925 Buick Standard that received an updraft conversion.  I am attaching pictures of my carburetor and what was used on the other car.  I wish I knew what was used, but I did not get a close enough photo, and I have not been able to find this car since.  The owner did a couple of things.  He used a different Marvel heat riser, and maybe that is because the butterfly was in the heat riser.  The preheat tube is straight so he may have used the heat riser from a 1926-28 Buick and removed the butterfly.  This would raise the carburetor and allow the throttle linkage to line up with the new carburetor.  These later model heat risers had the Marvel stamping on them (last photo).   

I don't know if this was a minor or major improvement.   Are there any recommendations on an updraft carburetor that makes a good replacement?   Thank you,  Hugh    

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[27donb]

Hugh, I have updraft Carter BB-1'on my 27's. 

 

 

I recently took one apart thinking I had a carb problem (turns out it was a bad coil) and found it interesting that there are no rubber parts, just some fiber washers and a paper bowl cover gasket.  Brass accelerator pump!

 

My 27-54CC sat for over 20 years, and was started and ran another 25 years before I took the carb apart as described above, only to find there were no carb issues. 

 

It is mounted on a later riser with an adapter with riser butterfly valve removed, and carb heat blocked off. 

 

 

 

You could also fabricate a simple pipe riser with 2 flanges, like on my 24.  Obviously you are giving up some originality but the drivability benefits outweigh that in my opinion. 

 

 

The downside is there is some linkage modification required, and the intake horn is angled, making fitting any kind of air cleaner a challenge. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by 27donb (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Hugh,

Since Classic Carburetors in Phoenix has closed up shop, Tony Bult in Wisconsin can rebuild the Marvel for you.  Phone - (262) 275-6403   Email - tonybuick272829@gmail.com  Hugh, these Carter units are not all that they are touted to be.  I am ashamed to say that I was a victim of stinkin' thinkin' and almost put one of those on my 1920.  I found the guys at Classic and they restored the original Marvel for the car.  The rest is history as that old saying goes.  After the ignition system upgrade the engine runs fantastic now.  Just my 2 cents here.

 

Terry Wiegand

Doo Dah America

[dibarlaw]

Talked to Mark Shaw about my newly rebuilt engine and it's reluctance to stay running.

On the 1925 running issue we spoke of last night. I reset the float and marked the inside of the bowl with my Dremmel tool locating a fuel line mark in the bowl 1/16" below the low speed nozzle. When I opened my valve the fuel came right up to that line. Great! I hit he starter and it started immediately and ran with a slow very smooth steady idle. But there was no throttle response and as it ran for about 30 seconds the engine began to stumble. The idle adjustment or the dashpot valve could not get it back to running any better. Then it could not be started to be kept running. Now the unused fuel in the riser/ manifold falls and the leaking fuel the front of the carb is going on again. The fuel level stayed the same as it was running well.

 I am thinking I am going to go back to the ignition as something (coil or condenser may be breaking down). 

Best Regards:

[michealbernal]

Dibarlaw, I am having the exact same problems with a Marvel Carburetor on my 1928 standard.  After the car runs for a very short time fuel begins running out the air intake and the engine overloads on fuel chokes up and dies.  Please explain more about how you how you set  a fuel level and marked it inside the bowl.  My thoughts are that the fuel level is still too high and the engine vacuum is sucking the fuel out of the low speed jet.  

[Larry Schramm]

Larry & Micheal

 

Do you have a new cork float in your carb?  If not a new one can be easily made.  If you make a new one out of cork, be sure to coat it with super glue when finished as it will make the float not absorb the gas. 

 

If you are using an original float, they were usually coated with varnish and the ethanol in current gas washes away the varnish and the float gets loaded with gas and the car would flood.

 

Been there, done that, made a new float and coated it with super glue.  Works fine.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

Larry:

 I am running the nitrophyl float from Gregg Lange.

[dibarlaw]

Resetting float after I had previously installed a Viton tip. I had to make a cage so the needle tip could seek center.

  

Yesterday I re-installed the original needle to see if I could get things sealing again.. Same problem as before. And ...this was with another bowl casting jets etc. The fuel level is now holding to the line I scored on the inside of the bowl, so the float is doing its job.

[michealbernal]

I bought a replacment float from Bobs and installed it.  It seems to be working because the fuel level stays constant,  I installed a new air spring and set the tail  clearance.  I took the unit completely apart and cleaned all the parts thouherly.  I installed all new washers and gaskets.  I set the float level at 9/16 in.  The new float seemed to help some in that now instead of fuel pouring out of the air intake it just drips.

[ROD W]

Is the suction valve shutting off properly in the vacuum tank. Try disconnecting suction line to manifold and putting your finger over the end.  Just  a thought.

Edited November 16, 2018 by ROD W (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

Don,     Thanks for the BB-1 photos.  If I see one somewhere cheap, I may pick one up. 

Terry,    Thanks for the advise.   I will try a few of my Marvel before I consider other options.   

 

Michael and Larry, 

    "Automotive Vacuum Gauges" are less than $20 with shipping on Ebay.  I would disconnect the vacuum tank suction line and connect a vacuum gauge.  With a 1/2 to 3/4 full vacuum tank, you should have a little run time to put on a timing light to see if your engine is firing properly and to check the timing mark.  Also remember that the firing order is reversed of conventional.    It is 1-4-2-6-3-5.    The vacuum reading should read steady 17-20 in Hg.   If it reads fine and then starts messing up when you reconnect the vacuum tank, then the vacuum tank is the culprit.  If the vacuum is low, we can address that if you post the results.  Just trying to isolate some of the problems.  Put a dwell meter on it too if you have one to ensure the points are working properly.  

Hugh

[dibarlaw]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 3:18 PM, michealbernal said:

I bought a replacment float from Bobs and installed it.  It seems to be working because the fuel level stays constant,  I installed a new air spring and set the tail  clearance.  I took the unit completely apart and cleaned all the parts thouherly.  I installed all new washers and gaskets.  I set the float level at 9/16 in.  The new float seemed to help some in that now instead of fuel pouring out of the air intake it just drips.

Here is what I did to mark the inside of the bowl.

The height of the idle jet was 13/16" from the top of the bowl. The mark I made is now at 7/8". I can see the ghost of where the fuel level was before. 5/8" from the top.

 There is a depression in the casting that is at the same height  as my mark.

 I tried to sneak up on starting the engine today. It still is doing the same thing.

I have set up things as Hugh has outlined but the engine will not idle fast enough to check vacuum. Back to the drawing board!

 

[michealbernal]

WE DID IT, WE DID IT, WE DID IT.  My problem is the vacuum tank.  As soon as I disconnected the vacuum line to the intake manifold it started up and ran fine, no more flooding.  While running, if I reconnect the vacuum line it runs about 10 seconds, begins to load up, floods out and dies.

Thank you to all, especially Hurbert 25-25, Rod W and dibarlaw.  I could never have done it without your help.

Now,  can anyone tell me how to remedy the problem with the vacuum fuel system.  I rebuilt the tank using a kit from Bobs.  What else do I need to overhaul to get the system to work properly.  Any info appreciated.  Thanks  Mike

[Mark Shaw]

Your fix is to make the vacuum valve close when the vent valve opens.  The "teeter-totter" mechanism at the top of the cylinder is not properly aligned or the vacuum valve is leaking.  Check the ball & seat to make sure they are clean and seating correctly.  

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[Bob Atkinson]

Also check that the seat in the vacuum tank lid for the valve that opens to the intake manifold has’t come loose. I had that happen several years ago with the same flooding results. Super glued the seat back in and it has been running fine since.

[michealbernal]

I disassembled the vacuum tank today and found that what appeared to be a paint chip lodged under the valve seat of the vacuum valve. I removed it,reassembled and reinstalled the tank.  It seems to be working fine now. Thanks again to everyone for your help