Twelve Dilapitated Lincolns 1925 to 1938

[mikewest]

Id like to have these cars in Livonia and have a chance to scrub them up a bit and sell them. I also don't agree these are parts cars. Priced accordingly ,every one of these cars would find a new home with someone that has a vision to fix them up. Whether it would actually happen is another story. I could see at least half or more of them going on a ship...  Good stuff these old cars... Plus my granddaughter likes helping "Poppy" tinker with them.

[Xander Wildeisen]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

Well, I understand the attraction of a crate engine, but the cost to put one in an old car doesn't stop at the $6800 mentioned.  Lots of modifications, different transmission, different radiator, drivetrain and front end conversion in most cases.

 

I really think, in the end, that the cost to restore or rod one of these "project' cars will come out about the same in the end.  You still have the same paint, chrome, upholstery costs.....

 

The other thing I would note is that, if one has built up a good network of friends in the hobby, there are ways to rebuild engines for less than the 30 grand that keeps kicking around as a cost.  I did a favor for a friend, he helped me with machine work on rebuilding an eight cylinder Pierce engine, and all told with parts and labor I had less than $5000 in a running, driving engine.  I agree with the 30K if you leave it with certain shops and walk away, but there are ways to do it differently.

When it come to most street rods, parts = labor. A quick list of needed goodies adds up to about 50,000-55,000 dollars. Radiator, wire harness, glass, seals/weather stripping, wheels/tires, engine, transmission, rear end, suspensions, steering, gauges and so on. Want custom goodies, cost can go up. To build one of those cars into a very nice custom, $125,000- 140,000. Is the value there? Build a winner and it is. I can remember a lot of customs crossing the auction block that were out of the box builds., that did very well, better than a stock/restoration build. And I can remember a bunch of custom builds that sold for pennies on the dollar, same as restorations. And I have seen high end restorations go through the roof in value. It is all over the map, glad we have all different areas of the car industry. Great material setting in that building, just needs a vision and the funds to back the build. Every ones comments are right, call me a dreamer, I just see what stunning customs could be made from that group of cars.

[Peter S]

Matt, I firmly agree. These Lincolns are a poor illustration for the point I was hoping to make; plainly they are an exotic breed and beyond the skill level of an experienced but modestly-skilled dabbler like myself.

 

The love for the cars does shine through the comments. What sometimes disturbs me is that the old "I have a cool idea and I'm going to make it happen" spirit seems to be flourishing more on the HAMB. This kind of tinkerer's self-confidence that kept my 1960s & '70s generation going on cars or cycles or even starting a garage band is alive and well in the young people who are building apps and designing video games and it isn't something we can afford to lose with vintage cars. The notion that perfection is a goal or that a car needs a six figure restoration to be worthwhile is very discouraging to those who are starting out. Getting it running well enough to drive and buffing it til it can evoke the original feeling without being perfect in the details to me should be considered success.

[Xander Wildeisen]

More stuff.     https://barnfinds.com/huge-collection-for-sale-after-barn-collapse/?utm_source=Push

[39BuickEight]

The Dave Tachney equvalent of the Lincoln world might be a buyer, whoever that is.

[Guest]

 

2 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

More stuff.     https://barnfinds.com/huge-collection-for-sale-after-barn-collapse/?utm_source=Push

 

More junk. I've never understood the hoarding mentality. Why not be patient, save your money and get one nice car ( or at the very least one good project that you can complete) instead of buying multiple junkers to junk up your property? To me it shows a certain lack of self discipline, and the need for instant gratification - the rush you get just from buying something. 

 

This is NOT directed at Xander. I have been very impressed by the machines that he has built and shared on this forum. I have never shared this opinion before, but its' always what I think whenever I see a collection of hulks like in his link or like the Lincolns.(unless it's a bona fide junk yard business, lol.)

[Xander Wildeisen]

I hear what you are saying, and I agree with you. But if it was not for people who bought up, and sat on a bunch of cars. Many of the cars we all own now, would not be around. Fine line. If anyone has some 33-34 junk Packard roadsters sitting around, let me know.

[BucketofBolts]

If it were not for those "hoarders" that saved many of the classic vehicles there would be none left to restore. Many of these vehicles located near Sacramento have salvageable parts and if someone wants to spend the time and money some of them are able to later be fully restored. I congratulate all of you  "hoarders".    

[John_Mereness]

Engine rebuilds on CCCA cars are large chunks of change.

 

Woodworking is incredibly difficult.

 

Parts availability is a mega problem.

 

Aluminum cylinder heads on the K's - yikes what an un-fun problem

 

And, then you have the question of if you are willing to loose money (because any more I see more people lose money than profit).  I have sat with a few friends and they have said X went for a record rice, but a couple of those I know the people who have done them and it may have set a record at sale but they still lost money on it.

 

I would tackle the Coupe, the Club Sedan, and hopefully there is a stack of Town Car parts  in the corner, in it, or ....as from the little I can see it has potential to be an awesome car. 

 

My advise is to buy something like this:  http://www.significantcars.com/cars/1929lincoln3/   - it is a truly lovely car that has been cherished since day one.

 

 

[John_Mereness]

By the way, an "L" Lincoln is a fine fine automobile.  Most people I know with 28's-30's tear their hair out a little via the updraft carburetor sitting down in the engine valley running off a vacuum tank, but a couple others have a kit someone made in 1970's to go downdaft (and others have figured out how to adapt to get downdraft) and they tour regularly without issue. 

[edinmass]

17 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

By the way, an "L" Lincoln is a fine fine automobile.  Most people I know with 28's-30's tear their hair out a little via the updraft carburetor sitting down in the engine valley running off a vacuum tank, but a couple others have a kit someone made in 1970's to go downdaft (and others have figured out how to adapt to get downdraft) and they tour regularly without issue. 

 

Lincoln's are ALL great cars. Very misunderstood. They offer some of the best dollar value purchases in the hobby..........some day people will figure them out. Same for Pierce Arrow......Fact is certain early cars are harder to sort and make run, but once dialed in, they are fine. You can actually make a Lincoln, Cadillac, or LaSalle run with the junk carbs they were sold with, it just takes time and experience, two very rare and exclusive items that are difficult to find anymore. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

You have to wonder with some hoards/ hoarders, though, if they hadn't scooped them up when they were not as collectible if another owner that would have properly stored and cared for them would have ended up with them and preserved them rather than just saved them.  I understand if you bought them at the salvage yard or at the metal depot, but I know some were bought in nice shape then left to degrade to parts car satus or maybe even worse befoe they were pried loose from the hoarders stash(often by relatives cleaning up the estate)

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, B Jake Moran said:

This is "kind of" me and it is also Wayne Carini, and some others.  There is a seller in NJ on the forum that is slowly bringing out and offering what he has for sale, and selling many of those cars.  2 sides of the coin.

 

I don't hoard, but I change my mind a lot. I have wasted my life in the pursuit of those holy grail cars and lost in 6 figures.  So yes, I should have stuck to one or two and resisted the urge to buy more.  For me, I reset my collection every 2 years.  In that pursuit like Wayne Carini, I have "touched" a lot fo cars and it has been worth it. But I regret not sticking to a theme and maybe having 2-3 cars. 

I love the chase. I love finding and persuading an owner to sell me their car.  Regrettably, many times it has been with the promise to restore it, and I have failed. 

 

The older hoarders who won't sell their cars, just some of them, is disappointing but be thankful we live in America where this culture exists.  This crazy car collecting and admiration culture.  In many parts of the world, these relics are gone.  Just when you think we have visited the last boneyard or Lincoln collection, there will be another one. 

 

Thanks for your articulate, thoughtful post. I think most of us enjoy "the chase" - I certainly do. Like you, I "change my mind a lot." If I had the resources, I would have a large collection of cars - but they would be good cars. As it is, I have always had to sell the current car to get the next one, and many times I parted with cars that I truly hated to see go, sometimes losing some money in the process. The plus side is that I have been able to , as you aptly put it, "touch a lot of cars, and it has been worth it." I like to say that I AM a collector - but my collection never exceeds two at a time and is always being refreshed, lol. I think this ( and your experiences, as you have described them) is different than accumulating a yard or building full of hulks that the owner can never hope to complete ( and usually refuses to part with). To each his own, not my money, and I really don't mean to criticize that approach - I just always wonder ....Why?

 Sorry to the OP for taking this thread so far afield.

[1912Staver]

The why is, from my point of view at least , that each and every addition made perfect sense at the time. The price was right, the new addition provided something needed in terms of the overall goal { perhaps the wire wheel car was bought strictly on the basis of using the wheels on another car, just as an example}, and the person had to one degree or another "the space". 

 But yes , the overall goal does have a habit of evolving over time. And if there is no compelling reason to sell sometimes the previous acquisitions pile up. Possibly the owner had intensions of returning to the previous project, and like will happen to all of us just ran out of time.  The overall scenario happens to many of us.

 

Greg

Edited November 13, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1950panhead]

Sorry to the OP for taking this thread so far afield.

The op is having a great time reading the comments.
It is an interesting listing.
I see some have wisdom, someone brave should rescue this Lincolns !

 

[R Holden]

Hi all

 

My 2 bobs worth, as for the comment:

 

As for sending cars to Europe and Asia, I agree, it stinks to see old cars leave the USA. However, maybe someone could answer this question for me.... If you had two buyers for a car and the overseas buyer offers thousands of dollars more than the US buyer, what option does that leave you? There are reasons why old cars are leaving the US. I think we all know the main reason which I will not say. 

 

In the 60's & 70's and probably right up to the early 80's Big Check Book American's visited countries like Australia & New Zealand and probably Europe & Asia also, buying up every Packard, Pierce, Peerless, Thomas, Locomobile, Mercedes, Delage, Rolls Royce they could get their hands on, often as commented, offering way more that the perceived value the then owners thought they were worth.

 

The result is that the early motoring history of the Australian motoring heritage, and I'm speaking from my personal stand point, was pillaged and no longer has the cross section it had back in the 1900's through teens and into the 1920's. You need to bear in mind these were all vehicles delivered brand new to dealers and private owners direct from the factory and (post 1915) often delivered new from the factory right hand drive! Theses vehicles helped shape the motor industry and are often steeped in motoring history, whether it is racing, endurance, 1st across the state or country etc or just setting the standard of motoring,  I did not hear one complaint from anyone overseas saying that "Stinks" we are wiping clean most of that country's motoring heritage!

 

I'd say if someone is going to restore even just one of those Lincolns, regardless of where in the world that happens, that is one that will not be scrapped and saved forever! If they were convertible's of any description they would be snapped up, (even the Coupe with the rear chopped off!). As sedans in today's market, they are not of a value to the average restorer to try and save. Anyone, any where, who is going to save then, I top my hat to.

 

[BucketofBolts]

Whats that line that Old Blue Eyes sings? "Regrets I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention".   I am sure many of the members (myself included) have bought cars that we wished we did not purchase. However, if we never purchased those cars maybe we would sulk and waste our time contemplating the purchase that "got away". As long as a Hobby does not undermine one's obligation to provide for one's family I see no reason why a Hobby (even an expensive one like restoring old cars) should be narrowed to one or a few choice vehicles to have totally restored to a show condition. There are many vehicles that would have been retired to the scrap heap years ago if it were not for those  collectors that may have over collected and had little time or money to finish the restoration of the vehicles purchased.  Yet, if they did not step up and make those purchases the vehicles that they purchased may never have survived.    I am sure that whoever buys this LOT will eventually regret the purchase but then what else would this person regret in life?    

[JACK M]

Fact is that the world is getting smaller.

Internet and easy shipping.

So some stuff wont be available for my future ancestors, kind of makes me sad.

So I don't like seeing stuff going away over seas, but as one comment above basically says. The guy is willing to pay and I want those dollars.

I've done it and it puts my conscience in a bind.

[63RedBrier]

So Reserve Not Met At $50,100!  Now what?  I would be curious to know if the seller pulled each out of the garage, spent a few hours cleaning and making each one look its best, would they sell for more than $50k?

[Matt Harwood]

I still think he would do much (much!) better separating them and selling them individually. Pull them outside, clean them up a bit, catalog what's there and what isn't, and get lots of clear photos. A little effort invested up front will pay bigger dividends later and improve the chances of a sale. Expecting some rich sucker to grab them all like a pig in a poke without the seller having to do anything except take a few crappy cell phone photos is a mistake. Everyone seems to believe in the myth of the stupid rich guy with more money than brains but he simply doesn't exist. 

 

Invest a weekend's worth of time and effort and I bet he gets closer to his goal of $10K each for the cars. But hey, what do I know?

[auburnseeker]

I know of a very similar Cadillac Stash.  Some of the included cars are partially restored,  one or two might even be restored.  I'm trying to remember as it was a couple of years ago I looked at them.  I will say there are I think 3 open cars and they are the most completed restored ones.  Nothing is newer than 1941.  There are a bunch of V12's piles of sheetmetal and parted out cars.  There are also some NOS parts, There are a couple of 33 or 34 3 window coupes.  Probably 20? cars A few tractor trailer loads of parts etc.  Many parts are used some aren't even Cadillac.  The family wants around 1 million for everything as the owner passed away.  Everything is inside atleast in pretty good storage. I tired to buy some NORS parts that weren't even for the Caddy's and there was a completely rechromed 46-48 Lincoln  bumper but they wouldn't sell anything as they didn't want to sell something that might go to one of the cars.  I told them they would really need an auction to sell off the collection,  but it would all be done and they would just have a check in the end. 

[BucketofBolts]

I will not be surprised if this entire LOT goes to one of the local auction houses which would sell them individually at 10 to 15 percent commission both seller and buyer and they go on average for less than $4,000 per vehicle. Further, the cost to transport them might be as much as 20% of the cost of each vehicle. As a parts car they might be worth more just for parts as opposed to a vehicle to be restored.  Look at the dismal prices that all those Model T's received at MECUM's Chicago auction October 25-27, 2018.  And those vehicles were almost perfect  examples like the 1924 Model T Phaeton for $4,675 including commissions to MECUM. The paint job for that Model T was more than $4,675. Most owners believe that their vehicles are worth more than the market will pay. Do not be surprised if these same vehicles show up in 8 to 10 months on a local auction near Sacramento that is likely not marketed well.

[Peter S]

It's a dispiriting situation that works to no one's advantage.

[Linus Tremaine]

I have been following along with this thread and haven't been able to figure out what I wanted to say until now. First, I am the west coast VP for the LOC and I worked very closely with the passey family when jacks lincolns were sold. I have seen alot of early lincoln parts sell and I am still buying and selling lincoln parts at swap meets when possible.

 

I also maintain the registry of model L cars for the club. While I do now have all of these cars listed, none of them were known to the club or the enthusiasts in this area until now. I have no idea what their history is or where they are coming from.

 

The most exotic car in this collection is probably the Judkins coupe - the car that looks like a town car is in fact just a really really rotten sedan. I worked from his starting price of 36,000 and tried to add up all the parts value. You could make 5-10k unbolting and unscrewing easy pieces. After that, you have to start working really really hard selling big pieces of iron slowly and for not very much money. You would have an absolute hell of a time making that 36K back by parting them all out. There are some bumpers and tail lights, steering box, buffalo wire wheels and things that have some value but those pieces would disappear quickly and you would be facing a ton of work to make very little money plus you have to move all of it and store it somewhere. Most or all of the body panels, doors, engine crank cases, frames etc are scrap. This is just a massive undertaking and even for a person such as me who uses lincoln parts to make extra money, this could not be worth my trouble unless it was all free. It would take YEARS of hauling piles of that stuff to swap meets and shipping bits of it to various people to make back the rest of your money let alone make a profit.

 

In my opinion, these are all certainly parts cars. A very good model L sedan can be found for as little as 25K - which is what I got for my good original 27 that I put new bearings in AND it had 21" buffalo wire wheels. A stunning beautiful 29 sold here locally for 40K, All new plating, new paint and fully rebuilt engine......

A professional rebuild on the engine of any one of these cars alone will cost more than the value of all of them together.

 

For me, I am stunned that this mess of cars was even bid up to 50K. Those sellers should have taken that money right to the bank and never looked back. I think their best bet at this point is either to reach out to the high bidder or to hold on to it and plan a giant lincoln yard sale and hire someone who knows these cars to run it for them. Do it next year wen the LOC is having their west coast meet. Once the collection has been picked over - scrap or give away what is left.

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Linus Tremaine (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

This is an Open Front Town Car (all be it could be a convertible sedan or a landaulet as well, though I am leaning toward Town Car) - notice the windshield. 

[John_Mereness]

This stands a strong chance of being an Open Front Town Car too - notice the windshield frame propped up against a pretty rare Kaiser. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Linus Tremaine]

John,

Here is his list of model L cars from the auction:

1925    31381.      Sedan-7 passenger      Murray 

1928.   48674.      Sedan-7 passenger      Murray

1929.   54844.      Sedan-5 passenger.     Lincoln 

1929.   56675.      Coupe-2 passenger.     Judkin 

1929.   59680.      Town sedan-5 pass.    Lincoln 

1929.   61206.      Sedan-5 passenger.     Lincoln 

1930.   62756.      Sedan-7 passenger.     Lincoln 

 

I have been provided with the body type numbers for all of these cars except for #54844, which is the first picture you posted. So, all of the other cars are confirmed to be sedans.

(#59680 is called a town sedan and that is a type 169B - and lincoln called it a town sedan. )

 

Back to 54844 - The seller wrote to the henry ford and got the build sheet for each of these cars. I have copies of  that sheet in each case except for in this case. I would assume he got that document for this car because he does call out a body builder (lincoln) which he would likely not have known unless he had the build sheet. He also calls it a 5 passenger sedan which indicates that he has some information on it.

 

Lincoln did not build a factory bodied open town car type body (they were all custom bodied) in 1929 so if he is correct in calling it a lincoln body, it cant be a town car configuration.

 

That being said, I do see what seems to be snaps along the top of the windshield frame. I guess we need to investigate this a little more.

 

L

Edited November 17, 2018 by Linus Tremaine (see edit history)

[Linus Tremaine]

Im going to guess that its a LeBaron

 

 

[John_Mereness]

50 minutes ago, Linus Tremaine said:

Im going to guess that its a LeBaron

 

 

I would say correct: My guess is the one is a duplicate to this - thanks for the posting  Sidenote:  

 

My guess is the owner who had all the Lincoln knowledge is now deceased or incapacitated - thus why the descriptions really are not all the best.  

Edited November 17, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Lincoln is a little confusing in 29-31 body style nomenclature.  Commonly, I would  call  this a "short coupled sedan" and many  manufactures would call this a Club or a Town Sedan.   Attractive car !

Edited November 18, 2018 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Linus Tremaine]

I think that is  #59680 which is a type 169A two window town sedan.

 

I dont think lincoln officially named any of their cars close coupled though they may have used it in the descriptions - i think thats more of an industry nomenclature for a shorter bodied four or five passenger closed car vs a longer bodied seven passenger.

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Linus Tremaine (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

One of the things not mentioned in the advertisement is what parts are available - I would assume none, though my guess is there should be a stash of wheels, lights, mechanics and ....  They could have bought cars to provide parts, but my guess is they also bought parts. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

What is the year, and model of this one? 

[John_Mereness]

10 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

What is the year, and model of this one? 

1935.   K4839.     Sedan-5 passenger.     Lincoln   //  Actually a decent enough car to restore other than the picture of the other side shows it has a rear door removed (and it is hopefully with the car).  Again, the problem is that there is  a gigantic hole for a roof and if all the wood in it is rotted it is a horrendously difficult car to restore matched to fun stuff like aluminum cylinder heads and general lack of restoration parts availability.  

[K8096]

The car no one seems to be talking about is this one, the 1938 factory bodied LWB sedan.   I think this one is in the best condition of them all as the roof is intact.   I included a picture of a restored example below.  I think this car is restorable, however most likely won't be due to the ungainly body style.  I think it's worth at least $5000-$7500 in parts.   The rust free front fenders should be worth at least $500 each, the Stromburg EE-22 carb $500, taillight parts go for good money if they're there, and if it has a factory radio with the correct head in the dash, that's worth close to $1000.  See those stamped steel covers over the front bumper bracket bolts?  Those are worth $50-$100 each and are hard to find in good shape too.      

 

• 

   

[Guest]

They're back 😲

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1929-Lincoln-Other-1925-to-1938-Judkin-Willoughby-Murray-LeBaron/352538641577?hash=item5214f0c4a9:g:tycAAOSw11Bb4cFw:rk:18:pf:0&vxp=mtr

[1950panhead]

Starting bid dropped from $120k to $50k, will they find a buyer ?

[billorn]

Would of been nice if they didnt store the cars in their pigeon cage.

[Linus Tremaine]

If there was a bid for 70K it is not there now. Its at 50,100  this morning

 

And! the buy it now price is up to 135K which is higher than before. Im not sure whats going on. The parts that come with the collection are a significant part of its potential value, but nothing is shown or described and the condition is very important as well.

 

L

[JACK M]

I get it, you put in 70 but the system only bids you just above the other bids until it reaches your max bid. (shoot up to your maximum)

So I surmise that your max bid doesn't meet the reserve.

I'm kinda thick about this high finance stuff.