Sign in to follow this  
mercer09

early motorcycles.................

Recommended Posts

I see a very early Pierce motorcycle for sale on ebay. Only the engine is original. The frame etc is reproduced. At what point is this not a reproduction bike and why do bikes with so few original parts, bring crazy money>
 
VS early cars, that usually at least need a complete original running gear?
 
Cars, I pretty much understand, but the bikes, why would someone spend a fortune for something that is "new"? Guess I dont get it................
 
 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the motorcycle world, as long as you have a original engine they are ok with making up the rest of it.....price is effected huge..........but the bike is"OK" for shows and such. 

 

A barn find identical Pierce 4 recently sold for 275K.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So few original survivors push up the price.  I rode Husqvarna competition motorcycles in the 1970s.  A clean restored early 1970s model is on eBay now and the bidding on it is north of $15k and not done yet.  They sold for about $900 new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the input- had no idea...............

 

so with a little reasoning, worth buying all of the old engines you can find!  ;)

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With early bikes there are almost always more engines surviving than cycle parts. The engines got saved and used for numerous utility purposes and the cycle parts were often junked. Over the years the engines got stored in basements and sheds and turn up these days reasonably frequently {the popular models at least}.

People have been reproducing various pieces for many years. Eventually it gets to the point where a complete machine can be assembled from mainly new parts.

  Like others have said above , genuine original examples can command eye watering prices. The pieced together ones are not cheap but still quite a bit cheaper than very original machines.

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cars, I pretty much understand, but the bikes, why would someone spend a fortune for something that is "new"? Guess I dont get it

The factory only made 500 and the list of known survivors is less then 20.

Gilmore car museum has one, another sold for $115k in 2015 from the EJ Cole collection.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The factory only made 500 and the list of known survivors is less then 20.

Gilmore car museum has one, another sold for $115k in 2015 from the EJ Cole collection.

 

 

 

I appreciate that, but if I couldnt have a real Mercer, Ild prefer none.

 

a fake is just that. fake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mercer09 said:

 

I appreciate that, but if I couldnt have a real Mercer, Ild prefer none.

 

a fake is just that. fake.

 

"Fake"?  Heavens to Nimrod, such a harsh, judgmental, negative term!

 

So, can I interest you in a "clone" Mercer?  No, how about a "tribute" Mercer?  I believe that some are "out there" for sale. 

 

Cheers,

Grog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Car or bike it all comes down to provenance, the real, original (as found or restored) will always be worth more. One hopes the ones made with more newly manufactured parts than original would somehow be known to the hobby in general, and somehow be worth less. I'd rather ride shotgun in T MERCER built out of an engine found in a corner under a workbench, than look at the engine under the bench. Bob 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mercer09 said:

The factory only made 500 and the list of known survivors is less then 20.

Gilmore car museum has one, another sold for $115k in 2015 from the EJ Cole collection.

 

 

 

I appreciate that, but if I couldnt have a real Mercer, Ild prefer none.

 

a fake is just that. fake.

 

I will never be able to afford a real "T" head, however if I had access to one that was owned by a understanding person I could see myself spending a great deal of time cloning it. It's apparently not uncommon for owners of very valuable cars  {Ferrari GTO's etc.}to have a clone for driving and keep the real thing safely tucked away. Also not uncommon in the art world . The Rembrandt  in the study is a copy, the real one is in secure storage. What's the difference ?

 

Greg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"Fake"?  Heavens to Nimrod, such a harsh, judgmental, negative term!

 

So, can I interest you in a "clone" Mercer?  No, how about a "tribute" Mercer?  I believe that some are "out there" for sale. 

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

Ive seen fake Mercers and Bearcats. might as well be clown cars! some people just dont have an eye........................ LOL

 

No, my preference is to enjoy what I can afford. A nice Model A ford is fine by me.............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the difference ?

 

 

 

have you seen tribute Mercers or Stutz?

 

they tend to be revolting to anyone with half an eye.....................!

 

no different then a hot rod to me. which by the way, I have no interest in.

 

ps dont forget the pinto engine while your at it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

 

I will never be able to afford a real "T" head, however if I had access to one that was owned by a understanding person I could see myself spending a great deal of time cloning it. It's apparently not uncommon for owners of very valuable cars  {Ferrari GTO's etc.}to have a clone for driving and keep the real thing safely tucked away. Also not uncommon in the art world . The Rembrandt  in the study is a copy, the real one is in secure storage. What's the difference ?

 

A clone by definition is identical. The reproductions are merely imitations. What's the difference? Going out with a beautiful women or a blow up doll may yield the same conclusion but there will certainly be a difference..............Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

 

A clone by definition is identical. The reproductions are merely imitations. What's the difference? Going out with a beautiful women or a blow up doll may yield the same conclusion but there will certainly be a difference..............Bob

 

And just like the automobile...........the real woman is a lot more expensive and higher  maintenance than the “lesser” substitute!

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Car or bike it all comes down to provenance, the real, original (as found or restored) will always be worth more. One hopes the ones made with more newly manufactured parts than original would somehow be known to the hobby in general, and somehow be worth less. I'd rather ride shotgun in T MERCER built out of an engine found in a corner under a workbench, than look at the engine under the bench. Bob 

Well said Bob.  I saw the Pierce for sale at Hershey and spent more time there oogling over it that almost anything in the swap meet.  There is one in the Buffalo Transportation Museum and later the same day I told Jim Sandoro about this one.  Don't know if he got to look it over or not, but even as a restoration with most of it remade it's a remarkable machine.  There are many cars out there that began with nothing more than an engine (e.g. Stanley and Locomobile Steamers, one cylinder Caddys, etc.)

Terry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mercer09 said:

What's the difference ?

 

 

 

have you seen tribute Mercers or Stutz?

 

they tend to be revolting to anyone with half an eye.....................!

 

no different then a hot rod to me. which by the way, I have no interest in.

 

ps dont forget the pinto engine while your at it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! haha

 

 

You don't like Pinto engines ? I guess you just haven't driven the right Pinto engine car.

The young guns are switching to Duratec , but still lots of old fashioned Pinto powered Sports 2000's out there. { mid 1970's Royale S2000}

 

Greg

e0b94e9c1937442096e30e0b26fb427d.jpg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the Pierce motorcycle at Hershey, said hi to the owner, and asked the price.  He stated 85K.  I then said, oh, mostly reproduction then, right.  He smiled and said "how did you know".....well, the price is a dead giveaway.

 

For the longest time, almost every Hershey had one or more 4-cylinder Pierce MC engines for sale, usually in the 2500-3000 range.  I was quoted a complete engine about 10 years ago for $10K, and wish now I'd bought it.

 

As Ed states, provenance is critical to bicycle and motorcycle collectors, and getting more so to automobile collectors.

 

For example, most early Pierce Arrow cars had cast aluminum bodies.  During scrap drives, a man with a hammer could have a large pile of valuable scrap aluminum in ten or fifteen minutes.  Thus, so many early Pierce's survived as chassis only, and that's why so many repro bodies now ride on the original chassis.

 

It does affect the value....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this