Raffles

Chrysler 323.5 Straight 8 Flathead

Recommended Posts

I have a 1947 Chrysler New Yorker that is starting to show an alarming level of blow by. Rather than waiting until it completely packs it in and leaves me to scramble and miss a season or two of driving, I want to line up a rebuilt engine now. I have a line on a 1949 323.5 Straight 8 - vendor says that it is standard bore capable of rebuild. I believe that pistons etc. are available but what about a crankshaft -if it needs one?

 

Also, if anyone knows of a Chrysler straight 8 already re-built please let me know!

Edited by Raffles (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Winter is coming, rebuild it in the snowy season and have it ready for the spring.

 A motor can be rebuilt in 2 weeks, tops, even if the crank needs grinding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Roger  - it's already 10 degrees below zero with snow on the ground here so we are going to have a log long winter. Another reason that I was looking for a new motor is that the one in my car is an industrial Chrysler with a serial number prefix of "IND" - probably came out of some heavy equipment or stationary application. I would like to get a factory engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would cause you to think either engine needs a crankshaft?? Chances are, both are good. Have the crank in the donor engine checked and polished or reground as necessary. The crank in your current engine will probably swap over to the donor engine. That would require just a set of new bearings, providing the shaft is not excessively worn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if the internal Specs for the "IND" straight 8 engine are the same as they are for the "C" straight 8 engine in terms of bore, stroke, etc. I know from past experience that the Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth flat six manufactured in the US has a different bore,stroke and block length from the "IND" and Canadian Chrysler brands flat six. Therefore I am unsure if crank is interchangeable between "IND" and "C" straight 8.

Edited by Raffles (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the images an L-head engine, commonly called a flat head is drawn.  This is what is in your Chrysler.

The coloured  illustration is what is commonly called a flat engine.

The engines in the engine type drawing could and have been mounted flat for under floor installation but they are still not a flat engine.

engine type.jpg

Horizontally-Opposed-01[1].jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Tinindian said:

In the images an L-head engine, commonly called a flat head is drawn.  This is what is in your Chrysler.

The coloured  illustration is what is commonly called a flat engine.

The engines in the engine type drawing could and have been mounted flat for under floor installation but they are still not a flat engine.

engine type.jpg

Horizontally-Opposed-01[1].jpg

 

That 'flat' vs 'flat head' thing gets a lot of people. It would be easier to use the British - or non US - nomenclature, of side valve. I know that doesn't differentiate between T and L head but it is adequate for most applications.

 

Raffles in his comment refers to the differences between Canadian and US sixes - of course there is the  'long' and 'short' block thing to consider with those. US built both sizes , Canada built long ones only.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

  

 

of course there is the  'long' and 'short' block thing to consider with those. US built both sizes , Canada built long ones only.

I know about the long and short sixes. Were there long and short eights, as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 Winter is coming, rebuild it in the snowy season and have it ready for the spring.

 A motor can be rebuilt in 2 weeks, tops, even if the crank needs grinding.

 

I agree with Roger. Depending on miles on the engine and miles you intend to drive a ring ,valve ,and bearing overhaul probably is enough. Just a few days lazy work if no machine shop needed.

 

  Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't like flathead or sidevalve what about underhead cam?

 

I think if it was mine I would rebuild the engine that is in it, unless the rod is sticking thru the block. Why waste money on another engine when the one you have is known to be decent? As far as serial numbers go, when you have it out for the rebuild you could file off the old number and stamp anything you like.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nzcarnerd,

Here in the colonies, we call your HO (coloured picture) a "boxer" engine.

So, we have the L-T-I-F-I engines pictured.

Think we ought to include TU for the old Dodge turbines ?

 

And what about the 3 cylinder 3 carb, 3 coil, TWO STROKE that was in my old SAAB ?

Added a quart of 30 weight for every 20 gallons, per the big red tag on the gas cap.

 

Hey BEN, what are you doing knocking about with the Chrysler guys ?

All the Buick problems been solved ?

 

Mike in Colorado

 

Edited by FLYER15015 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never had any use for "miracle in a can" oil additives, but I have had remarkable success using a product called "Restore". I mentioned this on these forums a couple of years ago, and several guys echoed my praise for it. You mention blow-by, but how far can you get on a quart of oil? I'm talking about oil consumption, here, and not just visible blow-by? While I'm sure that there are plenty of exceptions, I think that most industrial engines live fairly easy lives because they usually aren't subject to the type of loads that cause a lot of crankshaft end play wear. Also, the tendency to run them at fixed RPMs probably has it's advantages. It's possible that a complete rebuild might not be necessary, try a couple cans of restore in the crankcase.

Edited by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of "miracle in a can" I was never a believer until I got into the boat business.

I was a Evinrude dealer and OMC sold 'engine tuner' in both spray cans and in bulk. (I suppose it would still be available)

You could dose a warm engine thru the carb till it barely ran, then let it sit over night and it was like getting a new engine.

Many boat engines never reach a full operating temperatures by design and they tend to carbon up.

I guess I cant explain why all the used car dealers in my area were my best customers for that stuff.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, FLYER15015 said:

nzcarnerd,

Here in the colonies, we call your HO (coloured picture) a "boxer" engine.

So, we have the L-T-I-F-I engines pictured.

Think we ought to include TU for the old Dodge turbines ?

 

And what about the 3 cylinder 3 carb, 3 coil, TWO STROKE that was in my old SAAB ?

Added a quart of 30 weight for every 20 gallons, per the big red tag on the gas cap.

 

Hey BEN, what are you doing knocking about with the Chrysler guys ?

All the Buick problems been solved ?

 

Mike in Colorado

 

 

Re the 'coloured picture' etc, all of that was posted by Tinindian. I just commented on it.

 

Some people, it seems mostly in the US I guess because this is a US forum, I am sure will continue to call the flat head engine a flat engine until corrected by us grumpy old buggers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, this Minnesota (USA) resident has never heard the term "flat" engine until relatively recently. I'm inclined to think that it's a matter of younger folks tending to abbreviate things in their speech.

Edited by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This came up once before. Apparently in some parts of the US "flat 6" was common slang going back to at least the 60s if not further. It was a surprise to me. I (in the northwestern US) had never heard of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/8/2018 at 9:23 PM, FLYER15015 said:

nzcarnerd,

Here in the colonies, we call your HO (coloured picture) a "boxer" engine.

So, we have the L-T-I-F-I engines pictured.

Think we ought to include TU for the old Dodge turbines ?

 

And what about the 3 cylinder 3 carb, 3 coil, TWO STROKE that was in my old SAAB ?

Added a quart of 30 weight for every 20 gallons, per the big red tag on the gas cap.

 

Hey BEN, what are you doing knocking about with the Chrysler guys ?

All the Buick problems been solved ?

 

Mike in Colorado

 

 

 Thinking the same thing about you!    George is good at present. Tomorrow?  

  Were you at the Nationals ?

 

  Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I bought a truck that had sat for about a year or so and when I started it it smoked like crazy.

 I put two bottles of "Motor Honey" in it, and ran it at about 1500 rpms for about 6 hours.

 It still was smoking so badly that I decided to return it to the dealer that I had bought it from.

 The next day I started it and one puff of smoke came out and then none.

 I kept the truck for 10 years and never had an oil problem since.

 Give it a try!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you done any diagnosis on the engine to discover where the problem might be? e.g. compression test wet and dry, leak down test, vacuum gauge test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to all for this very interesting and informative discussion. I am particularly interested in the comments about "miracle in a can" oil additives that actually work.

When I took the car to the shop a veteran mechanic looked it over and told me that the occasional billows of smoke emitted from the road pipe of the crank exhaust were not excessive and that he did not think that a compression test was warranted because the engine runs very smoothly. He suggested that the pistons and/or cylinders had probably become worn and somewhat tapered and that this and carbon build up caused by low speed travel had probably cause the rings to become clogged and not as effective as they should be -resulting in blow-by. 

 

The car never emits a blue cloud from the exhaust pipe when I drive it - it just emits a moderate billow of smoke from the crank exhaust road pipe when I come to a stop at a red light - it dissipates fairly quickly- but it is embarrassing and does leave a burning oil smell that lingers and is not pleasant for passengers or bystanders. however, when I start the car in the garage and let it warm up for a few minutes, it leaves a patch of dry, black soot on the garage pad. The soot is dry and thick, similar in thickness and texture to what you would get from a wood burning fire - it really is amazing that the car doesn't emit a blue cloud - considering the amount of soot that it produces. I asked the mechanic if this indicated that the fuel mixture was too rich - but when he inspected the tailpipe he observed that the soot had curled back at the circumference of the end of the pipe - like a very faint mushroom head - and this lead him to conclude that it was definitely oil that was producing the soot. As to the rate of oil consumption - it is unnoticeable in normal city driving - but the oil appears pitch black on the dipstick shortly after it is changed

 

Local guys here have recommended that I use a fuel additive called "Rislone" and then Drive the car at 60 MPH for a couple of hours to see if that solves my problems. Now that the roads are ice covered here and will be until April at least, I will probably have to wait till then to try this out.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bit off topic.

I had a motor home with a 460 in it and I used it to tow my race cars.

One day I was pulling a slight hill and it unloaded a HUGE cloud of blue smoke.

I quit after I crested the hill.

After the race that night around a campfire a guy asked if I had recently topped off the tranny. Yes I had.

He was a Ford mechanic.

It turns out that this is not uncommon on that Ford set up as there is a vent that is near the exhaust and when the fluid expands it will puke a bit of fluid and make smoke.

I have mentioned this story to several guys since as a lot of neighbors and other acquaintances think I know a lot about engines.

They think I am genius when I ask if they had just topped off the tranny fluid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Raffles said:

crank exhaust road pipe

What is this? Do you mean the exhaust pipe at the rear?

 

Stop clutching at straws and do some diagnosis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raffles, when your mechanic suggested Rislone, I'm almost certain that he was referring to the Rislone oil additive and not the Rislone fuel additive. You can google "Rislone" to see their product line and decide for yourself, or check back with the man. When a person rebuilds an engine, they will employ some techniques to help "break-in" the piston rings. Rather than driving at a sustained speed only for a prolonged period of time, they will accelerate rapidly and then decelerate just as rapidly numerous times. Of course, you have to do this on a quiet road where you can do this safely. What occurs when you do this is that the piston rings get flexed from the alternate differences in combustion pressure and crankcase pressure. This flexing, combined with some miracle-in-a-can product, can loosen piston rings which have become stuck from age, non-use and or even just light use -- perhaps like an industrial engine might experience. Good luck and let us know your results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said:

What is this? Do you mean the exhaust pipe at the rear?

 

Stop clutching at straws and do some diagnosis.

I sure he's talking about the road draft tube

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Road draft tube"  probably has different names in different locales. Here in the frozen north it's usually called the crankcase vent, or crankcase vent tube.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now