Damage to my 48 Lincoln

[39BuickEight]

11 hours ago, billorn said:

You guys really think their going to total that car because of that scratch?

 

Ok...

 

Since we have no idea what it is insured for (nor should we, that’s a private decision), it is very possible.  And it’s far from a “scratch.”  If the insurer can get out of it by simply paying the coverage amount, they will.  

 

I love that car!  The full photos really do it justice.

[MarkV]

[Janousek]

This is tough situation.  A good shop could paint the fender and match pretty good.  I'm sure it would be a lot closer than the brown fender to door on the Cadillac of your avatar.   Fenderweldt is your friend and your dividing line for the color.  They aren't going to be able to whip up a shelf color,  it will take some tinting.  Modern collision shops aren't going to do it.  Easier to say they can't and onto the next collision job.  

 

I think the wiring shop owes you a repaired fender but not a complete paint job.   I don't know anything about the insurace end of it.  A stand up show will take care of you but a stand up shop isn't going to take 2.5 years to do a harness.  

[Taylormade]

You seem to be interested in originality, but changed the car to 12 volts?  It looks like an older paint job in the first place, so I’m not sure why you think you’re owed a new paint job on the whole car.  Maybe I’m being naive, but I can’t imagine taking a car to a shop and let them sit the car outside month after month.  You said you took some pictures six month ago - did you not notice it being stored outside at that time?  Did you occasionally stop by the shop to check progress and find it sitting outside?  I think the shop owes you an explanation and a fix and repaint on the fender.  I think you owe yourself a rethink on how you handle repairs to your car in the future.

[MarkV]

31 minutes ago, Taylormade said:

You seem to be interested in originality, but changed the car to 12 volts?  It looks like an older paint job in the first place, so I’m not sure why you think you’re owed a new paint job on the whole car.  Maybe I’m being naive, but I can’t imagine taking a car to a shop and let them sit the car outside month after month.  You said you took some pictures six month ago - did you not notice it being stored outside at that time?  Did you occasionally stop by the shop to check progress and find it sitting outside?  I think the shop owes you an explanation and a fix and repaint on the fender.  I think you owe yourself a rethink on how you handle repairs to your car in the future.

 

Yes unoriginal 12 volts and the flathead 8 that was installed in the 50s because the 12s on these were horrible. My meaning in original was the fact that the paint matches currently and has aged evenly. No one said that I feel I was owed a paint job but originality or not the car needs to match whether late model or classic. If they cannot match the paint then it will have to be painted. The insurance and the body shop can make that determination. As someone mentioned earlier this is why I pay for insurance. FYI my moms 2009 rav 4 was hit and insurance paid for a complete repaint because it clearly would not match after a repair, this was in 2013 or so. 

 

As as far as the shop goes whether this happened inside or outside or wherever it does not matter, they did it and they are on the hook. The paint regardless would not have matched 3 years ago or today because of the color it is and the age of the paint. Estimates for repair of the fender are around $1200. Like I said though I will let my insurance handle it and the shop. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by MarkV (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

I had a paint shop match the 100% original paint on my 1941 Cadillac 60S a few years ago. The fender skirt was flaking badly and really hurt the look. When they were done, it matched perfectly (so perfectly that the car won 2012 HPOF Car of the Year at Hershey). They even knocked down the gloss a little bit so it would match the ancient lacquer. I don't know how they did it, but they nailed it and they didn't make it seem like it was particularly challenging. They use a spectrographic scanner that will measure the color on the car and tell them what to use to match it. The base for my dark blue Cadillac was some Nissan color that the computer tweaked to get it exact. Any good paint supplier should have this tech, they don't have to look through some old book to find the exact color code and then guess at how to make it match. The device even takes fading into account. Forget eyeballing it or hoping it's right when it's dry, this is how you do it today.

 

Looking at the paint on your car, you might also investigate having the body shop that's doing the painting do a proper cut and buff on it rather than you just hand buffing it every few months. A professional job will remove the top layer of oxidation (that's what makes it look faded and chalky) and will really brighten it up. It will also seal up better and the gloss will be more durable so you don't have to work so hard to keep it looking good. Maintain a good coat of wax on it and it should be good to go for another few decades. And as a side benefit, it will make that fender easier to match, particularly where gloss is concerned. 

 

Check out this all original 1940 Ford's black paint that Michael, my shop manager and detailer, wet sanded and buffed back to life (the difference was even more pronounced than it appears in photos):

 

 

 

Finally, your insurance company will ultimately decide how it gets fixed. They may want to paint just the fender, but if they're a true collector car insurance company, they'll do whatever it takes to make things right, not just expedient or cheap. Hagerty has frequently gone above and beyond for me and my clients, with one guy indeed getting a full car repaint because the panel that was repaired didn't quite match. Good insurance puts the car the way it was before, not just "good enough." Some insurance companies may just do the minimum, as the guys above are implying. If you have good coverage through a company specializing in collector cars, you really shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you have cut-rate coverage or a company that doesn't really want to insure old cars but does anyway because it's like free money (it is), well, they're going to treat it like any used car and give you a hard way to go. There's a difference and it matters.

 

I agree with the comment above--you're WAY beyond worrying about "originality" in that car. That's not original paint, so you're not preserving anything or losing anything if you repaint it. But the car has a lot of meaning to you, so it should be right. That matters most of all.

 

[JACK M]

Not my fight, but an observation.

The insurance company (I guess the shop as well) should be required to make you whole.

However,  What is whole in this case. I don't see this as a show paint job in the first place, so you are not owed that.

That rust on the corner of the hood looks like a can of worms so they don't owe you that.

The paint is old and just OK for a driver.

So, a compromise is in order. That being said I suspect you will personally spend more on the new paint job and body work than whom ever ends up paying you off for the damage.

I think they probably owe you more than the repair in primer, but not much.

Its a tough situation as you weren't planning on spending anything as far as body work on this car as its a driver. But as luck would have it this happened.

Would it have happened if the shop didn't back burner it for so long? Probably not, but it did happen.

You may have a case against this shop beyond the damage because they took so long thus making it vulnerable. So do you hire a lawyer and come out even deeper under water? File a small claim and let Judge Judy decide?

I am afraid you should be prepared to put up with a mismatch or a primer spot and deal with it from there on your own.

[Frank DuVal]

The insurance company will balk at paying to repair rust, dents, etc in the areas not related to the current damage, as they should. A whole repaint without fixing this will also look terrible. Stick with spotting the repair area.

 

I do not understand why a 2009 car in 2013 could not have been spotted in. That's what collision shops do all the time. Something sounds fishy here. And I speak as a collision shop owner for 13 years. Of course there are still those "that's as good as it gets" shops around. Avoid them!?

 

The spectrometer (spectrophotometer) usually does a good job, but sometimes the formula still needs a little tweaking. So painting test panel and let it dry is still the best method.

 

Yes, after spotting in the repair area to match the buffed (do not wax prior to painting) old paint, you will have to do your part and keep the older paint buffed and waxed to avoid color changing.

[MarkV]

Well I always wax it every 6 months to keep it looking nice. 

[SC38dls]

Mark V I’m still curious. Why would you leave it in a shop for two and s half years just to get it rewired? A couple of weekends at best could have been sufficient if you purchased a decent wire set. As an example I took a Mustang original wire set that was in a box with nothing marked and rewired a 49 Ford pickup a friend put the mustang engine and trans in. It took two long 

Saturdays and a Sunday to have it completely hooked up and running. It wasn’t pretty under the dash but it worked, ran and cheap. I know very little about wiring a car. He was doing a very low budget rebuild, so I was just helping. 

 

As others have said you may need to start being a little more proactive regarding some of the things you are trying to accomplish with your toys. 

I truly hope this works out for you as you have a good looking car. Being a driver makes it even better in my view. Have fun

Dave S 

Edited November 5, 2018 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[MarkV]

Life happened all since I dropped the car off:

got married

laid off (hired at a new place within three weeks but it set me back a month financially) 

Numerous major home repairs, sewer, hvac, plumbing, fence

finished my second masters degree

had to buy a new daily driver and put money there (Volt) and my wife needed another car.

i had to settle my grandmothers estate (lots of attorney bills! )

 

Finances being diverted was the only reason why it went on so long on my end as I didn’t have an unlimited source of income for this project during much of those two years to where I could take it elsewhere.  Also i didn’t want to pressure the guy too much because of this. The biggest issue was that they tore apart the car within two months and I didn’t want to have to haul it somewhere else. I work 18 hour days and I don’t have time to do major work to my cars. I have to rely on others. The problem was the son took over the business in the intervening years and botched this project and he is nothing like the dad. I also called every week or so and was promised progress was being made. Went down about once a month and progress was slow but moving forward especially in the last 6 months. After I pressured them.

 

With all this going on now life has calmed down and I am active on this forum again, going to car shows, and have a little bit of money to put towards my cars. My wife is also very supportive too!

Edited November 5, 2018 by MarkV (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Wow that is a lot to have happen. It makes more sense when we know a little more facts. Congrats on getting married, especially to a girl that understands guys obsession with old cars. Tough about gram.  Hope things work out on the repairs so you can enjoy the car for years to come. Have fun and let your wife drive it occasionally. 

Dave S 

[Janousek]

As a shop owner it's starting to make sense now.  Sounds like you weren't ready to have the job done and it just snowballed.  I tell people all the time the car has no business in the shop unless your committed 100% to get the job done.  Otherwise were wasting each others time.  

 

Shop owner probably sat the car outside when he figured the money wasn't there.  Nobody wins in this situation and to top it off the shop owner has to eat the profits from the wire job to pay for the damage on the fender when the car shouldn't have been there in the first place.  Nobody wins and nobody is happy in the end.  

[MarkV]

3 hours ago, Janousek said:

As a shop owner it's starting to make sense now.  Sounds like you weren't ready to have the job done and it just snowballed.  I tell people all the time the car has no business in the shop unless your committed 100% to get the job done.  Otherwise were wasting each others time.  

 

Shop owner probably sat the car outside when he figured the money wasn't there.  Nobody wins in this situation and to top it off the shop owner has to eat the profits from the wire job to pay for the damage on the fender when the car shouldn't have been there in the first place.  Nobody wins and nobody is happy in the end.  

 

No he didn’t figure anything. I was committed 1000% to getting the job done even with the chaos as we were going to use the Lincoln in our wedding pictures. Anytime he called me needing a part I ordered it the same day and had it shipped directly to him.  I always was able to pay  for 13 years and hundreds of projects, on this I  paid $500 up front than another $500 at the jobs midpoint all cash then I settled in cash the day it was done their delay was on them not me. 

 

He told me he could do the job so I trusted him. They were just lazy and put it aside in favor of quicker jobs. I didn’t push because of these other situations and the unknown cost of sending it elsewhere. Let alone the fact that I paid already to get things rolling. Can you imagine trying to get that refunded? Also I took several other cars to him during the intervening time to do various repair jobs he was always promptly paid.

 

I wish they would have been honest with me and just told me they couldn’t do it. 

Edited November 5, 2018 by MarkV (see edit history)

[MarkV]

Called the insurance filed the claim, now I just have to find a body shop

[John348]

I would suggest asking the insurance carrier if they have any shop to recommend, I know Hagerty has a network of approved shops

[Bhigdog]

The only thing I wonder about is that the damage looks like it was done a loooong time ago. Can't believe it was a shock to anyone when it came to light........Bob

[MarkV]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

The only thing I wonder about is that the damage looks like it was done a loooong time ago. Can't believe it was a shock to anyone when it came to light........Bob

Well I saw the car about no more than 4 to 6 weeks ago and it was not there. Personally I can’t believe they were shocked it was just recklessness.

[SC38dls]

Mark I have no idea how old you are but from all you’ve told us you seem to be a younger guy. I’m an old man physically at 72 ( that’s 36 with twice the experience in my head) that’s all busted up. Life is getting short, so I’ve learned to enjoy what I can and forget about things I couldn’t control. My advice is to write it up to experience, get it fixed, enjoy it with your bride (mine has been a bride for 48+ years but still a bride), get on with life and have fun. You’ve done all you can to make it right. 

Dave S 

[MarkV]

Update: the insurance called the shop and they refused to give their insurance information but promised they would “make good” yikes!

[Matt Harwood]

Why is everyone asking this incompetent goof who owns the shop how your car should be fixed?!? Sounds like you need a new insurance company as well as a new repair shop.

 

The insurance company should be fixing the car, RIGHT NOW, not trying to cut corners and get the shop owner and/or his insurance company to pony up for it before the work even starts. That's what their lawyers are for. The one and only time I ever made a claim on my Hagerty insurance they told me to get the car fixed wherever I wanted, whenever I wanted. The damage happened on a Saturday and on Monday it was in the shop being fixed. The bill was more than $7000. Hagerty paid without a second thought and with zero hassles for me. I don't know how or even if they got their money back from the guy who damaged it--all I know is that my car was fixed fast and to my total satisfaction by a shop I chose (Steve Litton's Vintage and Auto Rebuilds--those of you know him know he's not cut-rate by any stretch of the imagination). That's how it should work.

 

It's obvious this shop owner isn't going to own the issue or pay for the repairs and I'll bet that he doesn't have any insurance (which is always the first thing to go when a business starts to go under). I sure hope your insurance company doesn't give you the runaround, too.

 

Sorry this is happening. I hope your insurance is cheap, because I'm beginning to think they suck.

[MarkV]

2 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Why is everyone asking this incompetent goof who owns the shop how your car should be fixed?!? Sounds like you need a new insurance company as well as a new repair shop.

 

The insurance company should be fixing the car, RIGHT NOW, not trying to cut corners and get the shop owner and/or his insurance company to pony up for it before the work even starts. That's what their lawyers are for. The one and only time I ever made a claim on my Hagerty insurance they told me to get the car fixed wherever I wanted, whenever I wanted. The damage happened on a Saturday and on Monday it was in the shop being fixed. The bill was more than $7000. Hagerty paid without a second thought and with zero hassles for me. I don't know how or even if they got their money back from the guy who damaged it--all I know is that my car was fixed fast and to my total satisfaction by a shop I chose (Steve Litton's Vintage and Auto Rebuilds--those of you know him know he's not cut-rate by any stretch of the imagination). That's how it should work.

 

It's obvious this shop owner isn't going to own the issue or pay for the repairs and I'll bet that he doesn't have any insurance (which is always the first thing to go when a business starts to go under). I sure hope your insurance company doesn't give you the runaround, too.

 

Sorry this is happening. I hope your insurance is cheap, because I'm beginning to think they suck.

 

No they called for a statement from him. They are just waiting for me to take it to a shop of my choice. The problem is the shop I’m planning on going to is filled up until next week. My insurance will fix and then go after the shop.