1933 dodge steering box rebuild - any help accepted

[Spinneyhill]

When you are ready to undo the plugs in the ends of the drag link (please, it is NOT a "trailing arm'), make yourself a screw driver that fits them properly. Otherwise you will mess up the slot in the plug. It will also work much better and be easier to undo (and do up again) if your screw driver is the same width as the plugs. I made mine out of a piece of flat steel and turned it with an adjustable spanner.

 

When you get that Pitman arm out, show us the ball on the end of it. It must be fairly close to a sphere to give smooth, even steering.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Sactownog]

49 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

When you are ready to undo the plugs in the ends of the drag link (please, it is NOT a "trailing arm'), make yourself a screw driver that fits them properly. Otherwise you will mess up the slot in the plug. It will also work much better and be easier to undo (and do up again) if your screw driver is the same width as the plugs. I made mine out of a piece of flat steel and turned it with an adjustable spanner.

 

When you get that Pitman arm out, show us the ball on the end of it. It must be fairly close to a sphere to give smooth, even steering.

Picture of tool. 

[Spinneyhill]

Really? Look at the plug and make something to fit the slot very well. I'll try to find it in my scrap bin.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Here are the parts in the end of my Dodge 8 drag link. You can see the damage to the plug by previous inappropriate screw drivers. This is the Pitman arm end; the other is the same but with a separate ball. If you look closely you can see the wear in the seats and the keyhole is so worn the ball is almost able to pull out. The ball sits above the wee circle you can see in the bottom of the drag link end, which is the grease nipple.

 

Just make a flat tool that fits in the slot in the plug! i.e. thick enough to fill the slot and as wide as the diameter of the plug. Mild steel will do. I just raid the scrap bins in steel fab shops for off-cuts for my little jobs. Basically I get the steel for scrap value.

 

I can't find the "screw driver" I made. Maybe I have converted it to something else. It was already something else before it became a plug driver. It is >2 years since this job was completed.

 

[ply33]

1 hour ago, Sactownog said:

Picture of tool. 

 

I used a broad flat screw drive blade that came with my 1970s vintage hammer impact driver. The impact driver has a 1/2" square drive that is basically the same as my socket wrench set so I used a ratchet handle from the socket set to remove and re-install the plug.

[ply33]

1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said:

Here are the parts in the end of my Dodge 8 drag link. You can see the damage to the plug by previous inappropriate screw drivers. This is the Pitman arm end; the other is the same but with a separate ball. If you look closely you can see the wear in the seats and the keyhole is so worn the ball is almost able to pull out. The ball sits above the wee circle you can see in the bottom of the drag link end, which is the grease nipple.

 

Just make a flat tool that fits in the slot in the plug! i.e. thick enough to fill the slot and as wide as the diameter of the plug. Mild steel will do. I just raid the scrap bins in steel fab shops for off-cuts for my little jobs. Basically I get the steel for scrap value.

 

I can't find the "screw driver" I made. Maybe I have converted it to something else. It was already something else before it became a plug driver. It is >2 years since this job was completed.

 

 

Yours was worn worse than mine and I was worried about mine falling apart when I hit a bump in the road or if I had to turn sharply.

[Spinneyhill]

 

4 minutes ago, ply33 said:

Yours was worn worse than mine and I was worried about mine falling apart when I hit a bump in the road or if I had to turn sharply.

Yeah but were your dust covers made out of baked bean cans, roughly hacked out with really sharp edges?

Edited October 27, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Alan Cutler]

Example of a dust cover, Spinney....

[Spinneyhill]

3 hours ago, Surf City '38 said:

Example of a dust cover, Spinney....

LoL! Yes, mine are nice and neat and properly fashioned now. The bits of can went in the recycling.

[Sactownog]

On 10/27/2018 at 11:29 AM, Spinneyhill said:

LoL! Yes, mine are nice and neat and properly fashioned now. The bits of can went in the recycling.

Where did you source the end ball joints that go in the control arm (backing plate) I cant seem to find the ball joints to replace each steering arm. 

[Spinneyhill]

4 minutes ago, Sactownog said:

Where did you source the end ball joints that go in the control arm (backing plate) I cant seem to find the ball joints to replace each steering arm. 

Not sure which parts you are talking about. Control arm = drag link in my terminology? Backing plate? Steering arm?

 

The drag link parts came from Then and Now Automotive. I bought 2 Chev kits. The ball (RH end of your drag link) I got from them too; they make them. Chev kits could also come from The Filling Station, of course.

[Sactownog]

1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said:

Not sure which parts you are talking about. Control arm = drag link in my terminology? Backing plate? Steering arm?

 

The drag link parts came from Then and Now Automotive. I bought 2 Chev kits. The ball (RH end of your drag link) I got from them too; they make them. Chev kits could also come from The Filling Station, of course.

The end parts that have threads and press into the steering arm or backing plate. The ball joints, I want to replace mine and currently am working on getting the (Drag link) or (part that connects the steering box to the passenger wheel) replaced 

[ply33]

2 hours ago, Sactownog said:

Where did you source the end ball joints that go in the control arm (backing plate) I cant seem to find the ball joints to replace each steering arm. 

Your use of non-standard nomenclature for these parts may be contributing to making it difficult to find them. Maybe getting a reprinted parts book and/or owners manual would help on showing you the names that were used back then.

 

I think you are referring to the tie rod ends. Again, Rare Parts should have those.

[Spinneyhill]

I still don't understand. Yes, I am thick. I don't know of anything that presses into a steering arm or backing plate but I don't get out much. Do you mean the brake backing plate?

 

Look  at post #22 on this thread. Please use the terminology in that drawing for the drag link. The drag link on yours runs from the Pitman arm, the bit that goes on that spline on the steering box, to the RHS. You can buy a new one. Done.

 

The other rod that goes across from right to left, in front of the drag link, is the tie rod. It has replaceable ends. They are the same on 1930-38 Dodges: DD, DH, DL, DC, DG, DK, DP, DQ, DR, DU, D2, D3, D5, D8. They are also used on some Dodge trucks, De Soto cars, Chryslers and Plymouths.

 

The tie rod ends are Female, socket thread 3/4-16, RH thread on one side and LH thread on the other; the ball bolt taper is 0.703 to 0.609 over 3/4" length and the thread on the ball bolt is 1/2-20. Those ends screw onto the rod.

 

Sources: as above. Try Then and Now. Try oldmoparts.com. Ask the www. Watch ebay, they come up from time to time.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Maybe I have twigged while in the shower. You need a puller to separate the tie rod ends and the drag link RH end from the steering arms, which are attached to the brake backing plate.

 

There is a specific puller known as a tie rod end puller. You can use other types too. Pull on the steering arm, push on the bolt end (with the nut flush with the end of the bolt).

 

Once you have the puller tight, an old trick is to put a hammer against one side of the steering arm beside the bolt and smack the other side with another hammer. This may even be enough without a puller.

 

My maker's part number is TE2. I think it will be ES-50 in the USA but check this.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

When working on my drag link,  I wasn't having much luck finding NOS parts other than threaded inserts and new internal springs.  Then Curti on this site suggested I contact  Jeff Holzmer in Woodbury, Minnesota.  He replaced the pitman arm balls on several Auburns for Curti and came highly recommended.  Since my pitman arm was very similar, if not identical to the Auburn arm, I thought I'd get in touch.  He agreed to work on mine and also to repair my damaged drag link.   I'm very happy with the work.  Here are some before and after photos.

 

The pitman arm before...

 

 

 

 

And after.

 

 

 

 

And the drag link before and after.

 

 

 

The other end.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sactownog]

On 10/23/2018 at 5:56 PM, Spinneyhill said:

This is from ebay. It is from the Instruction Book for a '33 Plymouth. Now I understand I many have been confusing you. My Pitman arm rotates in a plane parallel to the chassis. This one (and yours?) rotates parallel to the front axle. Sorry about that.

 

Your photos will help us understand what system you have.

DRAG LINK BALL JOINT, I NEED TO FIND NEW DRAG LINK BALL JOINTS FOR BOTH SIDES OF THE STEERING. 

[Sactownog]

UPDATE: TERMINOLOGY HELPED. I called THEN and NOW and Tom told me he can get me all the new BALL JOINTS and parts I need to rebuild my drag link ball joints. 

 

I will be taking off the steering linkage to see how bad the tube key hole's are. 

 

how did you braze/weld and fix the key holes in above pictures? 

[ply33]

5 hours ago, Sactownog said:

UPDATE: TERMINOLOGY HELPED. I called THEN and NOW and Tom told me he can get me all the new BALL JOINTS and parts I need to rebuild my drag link ball joints. 

 

I will be taking off the steering linkage to see how bad the tube key hole's are. 

 

how did you braze/weld and fix the key holes in above pictures? 

 

I simply purchased a whole new drag link, complete with all the ball, seats, springs, etc. from Rare Parts for my '33 Plymouth which uses exactly the same part as your car.

[Sactownog]

1 hour ago, ply33 said:

 

I simply purchased a whole new drag link, complete with all the ball, seats, springs, etc. from Rare Parts for my '33 Plymouth which uses exactly the same part as your car.

What did that cost? 

[Taylormade]

11 hours ago, Sactownog said:

how did you braze/weld and fix the key holes in above pictures? 

 

As I said in the post, they were repaired by Jeff Holzmer.  He welded in new metal and reshaped the openings to the correct size.

[ply33]

17 hours ago, Sactownog said:

What did that cost? 

 

In December of 2003 it cost me $276.83 for the drag link with all the ball joint hardware assembled and that included California sales tax and shipping from Stockton to the SF Bay Area. They have a website and a telephone number so you can check current pricing.

[Sactownog]

1 hour ago, ply33 said:

 

In December of 2003 it cost me $276.83 for the drag link with all the ball joint hardware assembled and that included California sales tax and shipping from Stockton to the SF Bay Area. They have a website and a telephone number so you can check current pricing.

YEAH, spoke to rareparts.com  today, they have everything I need. current price is about $323.18 for drag link, $360 for front steering arm with ball joints. fooking expensive. total's about $680.00 before shipping. 

[Spinneyhill]

So do you need the drag link? What condition is yours in? And the tie rod ends, what condition are they in? You don't need the tie rod, just the ends (ball joints). No point in paying for stuff you don't need. The drag link is easy to disassemble, so have you done that to inspect it?

[Sactownog]

12 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

So do you need the drag link? What condition is yours in? And the tie rod ends, what condition are they in? You don't need the tie rod, just the ends (ball joints). No point in paying for stuff you don't need. The drag link is easy to disassemble, so have you done that to inspect it?

I have taken apart the whole drag link (connection from steering arm to passenger side wheel) 

everything looks good, not to worn out, I do need to replace the ball joint on the passenger side due to the threads on the ball joint being bad. but for the most part, the ball on the drivers steering pitman arm looks good, the seats in the tube look good, I just need new rubber grommet on the steering arm and new ball joint on passenger side unless I can re-thread it. 

 

also, the holes in tube look like they should either be replaced or repaired which a $300 new pipe vs repair. 

[Spinneyhill]

Very good. This sort of tool (I asked the www for a thread file) is good for fixing damaged threads.

Mine has a different tpi on each face. The piece on the end is for inside a nut.

[Sactownog]

[Sactownog]

[Sactownog]

[ply33]

Boy, someone sure gave that ball joint stud a beating. The rest of your drag link looks pretty respectable through the grime. I don't see a lot of wear on the slots at either end though some may be apparent once it is cleaned up.

[Spinneyhill]

It looks to me like those slots have been welded up. They wear around the slot, becoming thinner, then the slot is enlarged.

 

 

[Sactownog]

well, the steering pitman arm will be reused, but the center tube or drag link (what ever you want to call it) will be replaced with a new bar and ball joint and guts for $323.18