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1933 dodge steering box rebuild - any help accepted


Sactownog

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so I got the box out, whole column came out from under the vehicle. 

 

I want to take it apart, re grease the internals, paint the external and re-install. 

 

can someone post directions on how to do this or a rebuild kit I may need to buy. 

 

THANKS AACA. 

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  1. Remove the nut, spring etc. off the Pitman arm spline (end of the sector shaft).
  2. Remove four nuts and bolts holding it together. The bracket and sector shaft "tube", with sector and shaft, should slide off. You are now looking at the worm.
  3. Undo the big nut around the steering column jacket. Remove the clamp bolt below it.
  4. Pull the steering column off the steering rod if not already off.
  5. Pull the steering rod with worm out of the box. You will find bearings on top of the worm (a cone should come with it). The bearing at the bottom may stay in there.
  6. Remove the plate over the bottom to access the seal and bottom bearing.

Finished, more or less. It is probably easier to scrape and wash off as much of the dirt as you can before you start so you have a cleanish job to work on.

 

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The bearings may not be available. Mine weren't. I found a pair of cups but the cones (with brgs) were NLA. They were in good condition anyway.

 

The sector shaft runs in brass or bronze bush(es). I had a machine shop replace them. If there is any lateral movement in the shaft, get those bushes replaced and check that the shaft is round too.

 

Stop prevaricating and pull it apart!  ☺️  It is easy and you can''t hurt it if you don't force it. I suspect that, like me, you will learn something by looking in there. If you decide it is not for you, put it back together and send or take it to someone.

 

While it is out and probably at the machine shop, disassemble the drag link and clean it up. You will be doing it a favour to clean it up and put new clean grease in there. You might even put new dust covers on it.

 

P.S. There is a pretty good chance no one will have a 1933 Dodge Brothers steering box listed as the application for a bearing that will work. You will have to work with the stampings on the bearings you have in place plus the size. So get in there and look!

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
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Here is what MoToR's Manual says about it. The first is 1947. I am not sure if you have a worm and sector or worm and double roller (as fitted to 1935-36 Dodges) and am assuming you have worm and sector. If not, I can give you the worm and dbl roller section. The second is 1952; note the diagram on 1947 pages is worm and sector, on the 1952 pages they are worm and double roller.

SteeringGear_Motor1947_Gemmer1.thumb.jpg.835f1679f992f85b87036b11ae152192.jpgSteeringGear_Motor1952_Gemmer1.thumb.jpg.f1f8fec3699e0b3f4bbf874fc744a1cb.jpg

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2 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

...

While it is out and probably at the machine shop, disassemble the drag link and clean it up. You will be doing it a favour to clean it up and put new clean grease in there. You might even put new dust covers on it.

...

 

 

Rare Parts in Stockton, California manufactures replacement drag links for 1933 Plymouth/Dodge. The original was made from a fairly thin walled tube and is often very worn where the arm goes into the key hole slot. It would not surprise me if much of the slop in the steering is actually motion between the ball on the end of the steering arm and the drag link.

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1 hour ago, ply33 said:

The original was made from a fairly thin walled tube and is often very worn where the arm goes into the key hole slot. It would not surprise me if much of the slop in the steering is actually motion between the ball on the end of the steering arm and the drag link.

That was what I found. One could hear the rust flakes or something running up and down inside when it was tipped up one way then the other. My keyholes were very nearly worn enough for the ball to pull out when in driving set-up.

 

Then and Now sell Chev drag link end kits - ball and seats and springs and plug. They should fit right in. Ball is 1" diameter.

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UPDATE: Well, I have found a place local in San Diego, CA who rebuilds steering boxes.

 

I did want to try this my self, but with the lack of time I have and the holidays coming up, I found it best to spend the $275 for a profession to complete the rebuild/resto and make sure it is 100% for me to re-install and drive. 

 

I will post updated pics when available. 

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7 minutes ago, Sactownog said:

what do you mean by "DRAG LINK" 

 

My definition of this would be suspension part? 

 

Drag link connects the steering arm coming out of the steering box to the far side wheel steering arm.

 

Edit: It looks like Rare Parts calls this a "Center Link Tube" even though the factory parts book calls is a drag link.

Edited by ply33 (see edit history)
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6 minutes ago, ply33 said:

 

Drag link connects the steering arm coming out of the steering box to the far side wheel steering arm.

 

Edit: It looks like Rare Parts calls this a "Center Link Tube" even though the factory parts book calls is a drag link.

where can i find these parts, www.oldmoparts.com does not have them. 

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You won't find them, probably.

 

Didn't ply33 say Rare Parts reproduced them? I also said above Then and Now Automotive sells Chev drag link end kits, including a new ball for the front end of the link.

 

Before splurging money (it can be a lot of money) on it, inspect it for condition and operation. Look at Taylormade's topic on Daphne; there is good information there.

 

Also have a good look at the Pitman arm ball; it should be a sphere for best operation.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Sactownog said:

RARE PARTS does not have the trailing arm ends

Trailing arms? Um, not sure which parts those are.

 

What model Dodge, DP or DQ? DP after 3589318 and DQ had one part number for the drag link assembly, DP before that number had another.

 

Do you have an Owners Instruction Book? The lubrication photograph and chart in the middle is a good reference for these parts.

 

These are the parts in your drag link ends, minus the Pitman arm (LHS) and the ball (RHS).

DragLinkDP_DQ.thumb.jpg.12d074c449d49ad5d1a0d42d00c5efd4.jpg

 

 

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
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Thanks. "Trailing arms" in my understanding are part of the suspension rather than steering. They might keep an axle or wheel in its correct position and it pivots up and down on the rear joint..... just conjecture though. It is probably a bit modern for me.

 

This web site may be of interest.

http://antiquedodgeparts.com/draglink.htm#31

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
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13 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Thanks. "Trailing arms" in my understanding are part of the suspension rather than steering. They might keep an axle or wheel in its correct position and it pivots up and down on the rear joint..... just conjecture though. It is probably a bit modern for me.

I always figured trailing arms are for rear end suspensions on lifted / hotrod vehicles. 

 

ball joints were for the front end of suspensions on the trailing arm ends or pit man arms. 

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1 hour ago, Sactownog said:

I always figured trailing arms are for rear end suspensions on lifted / hotrod vehicles. 

 

ball joints were for the front end of suspensions on the trailing arm ends or pit man arms. 

 

I've usually heard of "trailing arms" for rear suspension. But we are talking about "drag links" here.

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image.png.bfeaf8da939290fd1a5f577e1731b941.pngThis is from ebay. It is from the Instruction Book for a '33 Plymouth. Now I understand I many have been confusing you. My Pitman arm rotates in a plane parallel to the chassis. This one (and yours?) rotates parallel to the front axle. Sorry about that.

 

Your photos will help us understand what system you have.

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1 minute ago, Sactownog said:

mine is similar, but the end has screws that hold the Ball Joint to the end of the steering rod/trailing arm. 

 

There is a big screw plug at the end of both the original and the Rare Parts replacement. To install, remove the plug, spring and first seat (there is a second seat and maybe spring), insert ball from pitman arm on steering gear box into the large part of the key slot on top, re-install seat, spring and plug. Tighten plug until the spring is fully collapsed then back off a bit and install the cotter pin to keep the plug from moving.

 

FWIW, if you can't find a 33 Dodge "Instruction Book" (owner's manual) or reprint thereof, look for the '33 Plymouth equivalent (the '33 Plymouth and Dodges are almost identical mechanically). The Instruction Book has much of the repair information that was later (in 1934) moved to the factory service manuals. A factory service manual (or reprint thereof) for either '34 Dodge or Plymouth would also be a good thing to have in your library.

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47 minutes ago, ply33 said:

 

There is a big screw plug at the end of both the original and the Rare Parts replacement. To install, remove the plug, spring and first seat (there is a second seat and maybe spring), insert ball from pitman arm on steering gear box into the large part of the key slot on top, re-install seat, spring and plug. Tighten plug until the spring is fully collapsed then back off a bit and install the cotter pin to keep the plug from moving.

 

FWIW, if you can't find a 33 Dodge "Instruction Book" (owner's manual) or reprint thereof, look for the '33 Plymouth equivalent (the '33 Plymouth and Dodges are almost identical mechanically). The Instruction Book has much of the repair information that was later (in 1934) moved to the factory service manuals. A factory service manual (or reprint thereof) for either '34 Dodge or Plymouth would also be a good thing to have in your library.

Thank you, I do have an instruction book but it does not give very much info on how to repair, it explains about the parts, but not really in depth. I feel my biggest issue is getting over if I break it "i cant find replacement parts" or if it is damaged "I cant find replacement parts". 

 

I do have a manual though. do they get more in depth if I grab a 1934 Manual? 

 

either way, I will be removing my steering trailing arm and checking all components before reinstalled. 

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4 hours ago, Sactownog said:

Thank you, I do have an instruction book but it does not give very much info on how to repair, it explains about the parts, but not really in depth. I feel my biggest issue is getting over if I break it "i cant find replacement parts" or if it is damaged "I cant find replacement parts". 

 

I do have a manual though. do they get more in depth if I grab a 1934 Manual? 

 

either way, I will be removing my steering trailing arm and checking all components before reinstalled. 

 

Trailing arm? It seems that you are using a different terminology than in general use and/or the instruction book. I am guessing you might be referring to the tie rod. Or maybe the drag link. Hard to be sure.

 

Both the drag link and tie rod are available from Rare Parts following the links/instructions I posted earlier. They also have the tie rod ends but you might be able to find those cheaper elsewhere. So, other than a hit to the pocket book, there is no reason to worry about breaking one of those items.

 

With respect to a 1934 factory service manual, I recommend it in general. However for the front suspension and steering it won't be as useful as they used unequal A arm independent front suspension for that year. At least they did on the Plymouth PE and PF lines. That was dropped for the PG and in 1935 across the board for a cheaper beam axle design. I think Dodge followed suit with respect to that.

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I am planning on cleaning up these parts. these are the trailling arms we are discussing. see how the ends connect. 

 

any info on how to update, I am open to talking about to make like new. I honestly think I can clean this all up and re-install since vehicle has 35k miles on it, the parts do not look worn out. 

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3 hours ago, Sactownog said:

I am planning on cleaning up these parts. these are the trailling arms we are discussing. see how the ends connect. 

 

any info on how to update, I am open to talking about to make like new. I honestly think I can clean this all up and re-install since vehicle has 35k miles on it, the parts do not look worn out. 

 

 

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When you pull the sheet metal cover and leather seal/gasket off this to clean it up, take a good look at the key hole shaped slot. That is where they seem to wear out.

 

Your cover seems to be held on with some wire. The original cover had metal bands, maybe a bit less than 1/4" wide to hold it on. Not sure if the original failed in some way or were lost when someone previously serviced this part. But it does indicate that someone has been in that area for some reason.

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39 minutes ago, ply33 said:

 

When you pull the sheet metal cover and leather seal/gasket off this to clean it up, take a good look at the key hole shaped slot. That is where they seem to wear out.

 

Your cover seems to be held on with some wire. The original cover had metal bands, maybe a bit less than 1/4" wide to hold it on. Not sure if the original failed in some way or were lost when someone previously serviced this part. But it does indicate that someone has been in that area for some reason.

that is good to know, I will be taking it apart, cleaning it and re-installing it. any idea what happens if the key hole area is damaged/worn out if I need to get a replacement or if I need to modify the steering arm to work. 

 

my thought is I could probably weld something to make it work properly if needed unless a replacement bar would be sold somewhere. 

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4 minutes ago, Sactownog said:

that is good to know, I will be taking it apart, cleaning it and re-installing it. any idea what happens if the key hole area is damaged/worn out if I need to get a replacement or if I need to modify the steering arm to work. 

 

my thought is I could probably weld something to make it work properly if needed unless a replacement bar would be sold somewhere. 

 

If it is worn, then see 

 

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