Simon Anderson Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Hello all, i have just purchased a 1909 model 20. Engine number 0521 looking for any tips, tricks or info on spares(if any) thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Very nice looking car, congrats on getting it! Body color appears very close to original, a poppy red (red with a touch or orange in it). I don't believe this is a 1909, unless someone has done some modifications to it along the way. The number you have stated, is that on the dash plaque? Have you checked the actual engine number, it's on top of the flange that connects engine and transmission. Also, what shape is the gas tank? 1909's were squared off, the 1910 on was an oval side shape. The high headlights did not come out until late 1910. Yours is the first I've ever seen with a buggy rail added to support the top, the original top body irons were all mounted inside the wood seat, not externally. None of this is criticism, just pointing out some differences, very nice car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Looks like our Hupp. Is it a Torpedo model? Hard to tell from the photos. I have no acetylene generator; not sure how it mounted. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 You did ask for tips and tricks! Oil reservoir on side of engine, drips oil into crankcase at rate which varies with speed. There are two drain valves on bottom of engine, each should have a standpipe about 1-1/4" tall. This is level of crankcase oil. The oil dripping does NOT go to any specific lubrication point, just refills the oil pan as the engine uses or leaks oil. With better pistons in a Hupp engine today, you'll lose a lot more from leaks than burning oil. The transmission has a large and a small bushing at the rear of the housing. These wear, and if worn enough your shifting experience will be miserable. Hupp offered two rear end ratios. 3.5-1 for flatlands, 4-1 for hilly country. A 3.5 rear end will get you to 40 miles per hour, a 4.0 won't. A 4-1 will pull a hill better, but you still may have to downshift half way up the hill. Make sure your brake shoes aren't soaked in oil from a leaking rear axle seal. The Hupp has miniscule brake pad area, and you need all the help you can get. The original carb was a Breeze, and the owner's manual is something like 36 pages long. I have it electronically if you still have a Breeze. More often, people cut the bottom of the intake manifold off and installed a Model T carb. When driving at speed NEVER hit brakes without pressing in the clutch. You have all the flywheel weight rotating, and forces being transmitted through the crankshaft can snap it readily. Make sure your magneto is in tip-top condition. A magneto can lock up, and when it does it takes out the cam gear, which on the Hupp is a HUGE issue to repair. Ask me how I know kinda thing. The front seal on the crankshaft can sling a lot of oil. There was a cover that was made by Hupp to keep this from going all over the inside of your hood. If you don't have the cover, bet there's a nice line of oil inside your hood. If you ever have trouble with the differential, the entire gear assembly can be installed from a Model T with only the slightest of modification, they're virtually identical. You CAN ask me how I know that! If your rear axles are the round type with a pinned hub, that the hubcap keeps the pin in place, carry an extra pin with you in case one snaps. Yep, happened to me. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Thanks for the information, very informative. the engine and plaque number match, #0521 it even has its original plaque on who sold it. It was supplied with a few spare, breeze carbie, has T ford on currently and the correct low mount headlight brackets which will both go back on, but I believe I will need a manifold. i will get a few photos today and post up. I do want to get it back to original spec as possible, so any feed back is welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) I have a repro Model 20 intake manifold available. I had it cast from an old pattern. I sold one copy to Australia already. Price is US$150 + shipping. Phil Edited October 16, 2018 by MochetVelo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I've been informed the standpipe height is supposed to be 3/4". Thanks. could be, personally I'd rather more oil in case as long as it doesn't cause other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 So after a bit of cleaning up I see the engine number is 152 and I have the gearbox casing to match as a spare. Intersting the frame is stamped at the front.. is this normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 The car looks good. The coolant piping is unusual. I also like the storage under the seat which my car doesn't have. Also looks like someone added a starter. Could you share a view of the other side of the engine compartment? Phi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Is that a starter ring gear on the flywheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Yes it has electric start, apparently it's a ford ring gear, which the flywheel has been drilled and taped to allow the ring gear to be bolted on. The stater motor is a VW as they apparently spin the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Those numbers are somewhat of a mix, with a low engine number and a higher transmission number and a very high data plate number. It's a nice car, but I think what you have is similar to a 1911 I recently sold, where none of the numbers seemed to fit. I think you have a 1910 car (based on fenders and step plates) that has had other mechanical components revised. Still a nice car, just hard to qualify as an "original" car....and would still be a lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Well it sure beats cranking by hand. Are you a member of the Hupp club? If not we have a lot of great members that are willing to share there knowledge of Hupmobiles. There is a tec. person that can help you with any problem that you may have with your Hupp Model 20 Great car I have been collecting Hupps for 50 years and are a charter member of the Hupp club that was formed in 1970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 18, 2018 Author Share Posted October 18, 2018 No i am not a member of the Hupp club yet.. I am slowly having a tinker with the car and finding a number of loose bolts, but what i would like to know is, how should the fitment be for the torque tube ball into the gearbox socket? i can move it up and down. thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1910Hupp Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) Where about's are you in Oz? As David says the shape of the gas tank and other features suggests more likely 1910 Not that it matters much . Down this part of the world the chances of finding a 110 year old car that has not been messed with are very slim. Yours has been messed with a lot less than some . Mine came with the butchered inlet manifold and a Holley NH carb. I converted it back to the Breeze with a manifold that came out of the States . Is now original but sometimes I wonder if was the right thing to do . The Holley NH is designed for the larger Model T engine which means the carb airflow is to large for the Hupmobile engine - The result was a slightly erratic idle but great pick up and top end speed . My car idles well now but pick up/ top end speed has taken a slight hit -significant when you are playing with only 35mph to 40mph . I have heard stories of 50mph but even the guru of Model 20's Bill Cuthbert says that any thing that can get over 30 mph on the flat is a good one . The Breeze is also a little tricky to restore -Both Phil and I sent ours to someone in Montana who did a great job of restoring them The Hup is fun to drive They can and did do large mileages in the day - Karl Edited October 19, 2018 by 1910Hupp (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 19, 2018 Author Share Posted October 19, 2018 (edited) Karl, I live one hour south on Melbourne. the body was built by the old fella I got it off, the car was found on a farm in mid N.S.W with no body. Edited October 19, 2018 by Simon Anderson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Like Karl, my high-end on the Breeze leaves something to be desired, especially going up hills. My car had a weird British motorcycle carburetor on it when I got it. My question: can another carb be mounted on the original manifold without cutting it? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1910Hupp Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Simon - Will be in Melbourne the week of of the cup Having a break over there with friends . I believe my car is one of the so called Christchurch Six . 500 Model 20's came to New Zealand in 1910 so although not many complete cars there were lots of parts around. In the 1980's a group of guys in Christchurch pooled all their parts together and there was enough parts to make 6 cars. At the moment my car is laid up with an ominous rattle on start up and shut down . I suspect a loose timing gear on the end of the camshaft . When I get back form Melbourne I have a further 2 weeks of work and I will get into the engine then . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 Karl, you're more then welcome to come down if you have time. has anyone tried to retro fit a seal to the front of the engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Anderson Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 sorry for another question, what type of wood would have been used on the floor boards and front runners along the rails under the bonnet? Mine currently has ply wood with an alloy sheet over the top, which I assume is incorrect. thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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