Use Of Premium Fuel

[dmfconsult]

 Gas pumps in Canada (at least the ones I have seen) show the percentage of ethanol in each grade of fuel.  Most of the fuel indicates "up to 10% Ethanol" in all grades. There are two exemptions though and that is Chevron 94 which says "No Ethanol" and Shell 91 at some locations is offered with No Ethanol.   In any case, the pumps are marked.  Ethanol fuels have been around here since late 80's or very early 90's. 

 

The main issue I have with Ethanol is the phase separation after sitting.  I recently had to rebuild/clean the carb on my father-in-laws lawn mower.  He refused to go get the non-ethanol fuel, even after a previous cleaning by a lawn mower repair guy had shown him the varnishy remains gooping up the carb and advised him to only use non-ethanol fuels in his circa 1983 Honda lawn mower.  As soon as I heard the symptoms and opened it up, I knew what the problem was.  I've been running that lawn mower now for 3 seasons with the non-ethanol fuels and no other problems.  By the way, I’ve never replaced any rubber hoses on that lawnmower so in my experience the ethanol was more problematic for the separation than effects on the rubber. 

 

I don't usually have a problem running ethanol in either car if I'm fairly sure I'm going to burn through it within a short period of time, otherwise I will make sure to use the E0.  I do usually add some Marvels Mystery Oil to the E10 just for peace of mind.

Edited October 11, 2018 by dmfconsult (see edit history)

[RivNut]

So, from what I'm hearing, running ethanol does not effect the performance of the engine as much as it causes deterioration in the gaskets, coatings, and finishes which then in turn cause other problems. ??? 

[Thriller]

KGreen - the province of Manitoba mandated ethanol be added to gasoline at all stations.  There was enough push-back that it was exempted from premium fuel.  I can’t speak for anywhere else.  I can say that I run premium locally in all my hobby cars as a result.  I also run a number of small engines.  I haven’t had any fuel related issues.  Of course, I can’t chalk that up to lack of ethanol, but I’m not prepared to take that risk.

 

RivNut - ethanol in fuel causes the fuel to break down faster and absorb water.  Thus, for those of us who are forced into off-season storage by weather / climate, this could be a huge issue.  I understand that ethanol has lower energy potential than gasoline, so there can be noticeable loss of fuel economy.  When I’ve driven to National Meets and used ethanol-laced gasoline, I haven’t had problems, but it gets burned before it has time to deal with the water issue.

 

That’s ultimately just my experience.  

 

[NTX5467]

NPR Newshour, tonight, mentioned the lifting of the SUMMERTIME E15 ban.  It was mentioned that this summertime ban was put in place due to orientations that the E15 is more volatile (easier to evaporate) and could increase atmospheric ozone as a result.  ONLY in the summer months.  So, what many have heard, or thought they heard, might not be entirely accurate.  There might be some other little details that were not mentioned, too.  Have to let things settle down to see what really happens.

 

The performance issues between RFG (ethanol blended fuels, the first version)  and E0 were well-documented in the BACK of the Chevron website, in the 1990s, when RFG was in its first uses in CO and a few other places.  I was surprised to see a future seller of those fuels make these statements!  About hos it would have "increased crank time" and other attributes about it.

 

NTX5467

[Frank DuVal]

First, around here the Shell stations are up to 10% Ethanol in all grades. the only non-ethanol fuel I can find in 60 miles [and no where near my home to work/play/shop routes] is regular or mid-grade [87 & 89]. Too far out of the way to use in daily drivers. 

 

Second, if E15 was banned in the summer due to evaporation rates in the high temperature, then why do "they" sell E85 year round? The US government has bought into this E85 and has installed tanks on bases to use in newer vehicles. 

 

Third, I do not buy fuel from the same station all the time, since I drive 40 miles one way to work. And it is not just 10 cents per gallon between "named" and "other" stations. More like 25 to 35 cents! So you will find me at Sheetz or Wawa..... Love that 8 cents off a gallon at Sheetz with their cards. I have driven over 150 K miles on one vehicle using these two brands mostly. No issues. Obviously, an EFI vehicle!?

 

Fourth, I saw E15 and E85 for sale at the pump in North Carolina at a Sheetz in August. No ban there......

 

Back to your regularly scheduled program.?

[avgwarhawk]

From some reading I have done concerning E85,  this was on the table for quite some time.  Recently brought up again with the current administration.   The underlying issue is a lot of vehicles on the road today can not handle the E85.   Further, quite a few if not all gas stations would need to install a new tank for E85.  An expense they don't want.   And, the fuel pumps would need to be changed or new pumps added for the E85.   Another expense.   I also heard the grade of ethanol will be selectable at the pump just was we can select the octane rating currently.   I don't see the current 10%(average) ethanol gas going away any time soon.    

 

As far as rubber products and ethanol, I have little doubt rubber products designed before ethanol suffer some deterioration.   I have not had any such experiences with said rubber products however.  Particularly on my 60 and the rubber hose from frame to pump.   I replaced it with a newer fuel injection ethanol happy hose.  Upon the inspection of the original rubber fuel hose I did not detect deterioration internally.  The outside rubber surface was getting hard as expected for an original rubber hose.     

     

[60FlatTop]

I tried the E-85 for a few tankfuls in my Flex Fuel rated Silverado. At the time it was about $1.00 per gallon cheaper than the standard. I quit using it even though I was driving 1500 or more miles per month. The quality of the fuel did not seem consistent and the truck ran poorly with poor fuel mileage, down about 25%. This was around 2012 and my truck was a 2005.

 

The Flex Fuel system measured the specific gravity of the fuel through a float apparatus to determine the fuel makeup. Based on a variable signal a program set the basic tune of the engine with antiknock adjustments external to the program. Having a lot of windshield time gave me a chance to think about what was going on. I had also read the operation description in the factory shop manual.

 

I concluded that the program parameters flashed into the ECM in 2005 may not have been consistent with control required for fuel produced in 2012. To get it right you would almost need to plug the ECM in for a flash on each fill up. I based this on anecdotal information from my observations, but it seemed the most logical reason. And based on DOT estimations of the average vehicle being about 15 years old it is a lot to expect a new car to have a compatible program 10 to 15 years from now. Efficiencies are likely to decrease while emissions increase and fuel might even improve. The work around should be interesting.

 

We'll see what shakes out. Until then I will just make sure I rack up the miles and keep the quality fuel in the tanks as short a time as possible

[gdmn852]

I use the non ethanol if possible,less likely to draw moisture available here in north western Pennsylvania.Its 91 octane probably more than a 49 Super needs.Lots of boaters here around LakeErie most of them won’t touch the ethanol fuel.My fuel pump ,carburetor,and lines are all rebuild and supposed to be ethanol safe but still run the non ethanol if possible,Couldn’t find in in Ohio so ran ethanol with no problem.

[avgwarhawk]

And this my friends means it all....