King Sealy gas gauge

[Curti]

 I attempt to refurbish King Sealy dash units for 34 - 36 Auburns. As I disassemble the reservoir side  there are small rods that take up space.  Sometimes I find two rods  of a particular diameter , some times I find the same two rods with a much smaller diameter rod. I have found up to five smaller rods in one one unit.  My thought is, the objective is the reservoir and the glass vile have the same volume. ....But maybe not.  The units I speak of appear to be original.  The units with no rods at all; someone has been there before me. More questions than answers.

 

[PFitz]

Those are calibration rods. The gas tank, back brass tube and sight glass tubes have some production variation therefore need the rods to displace some liquid in the gauge back tube to better match the gauge level to the gas tank level. Plus, the original glass tubing King Sealy used varies most.  I got a batch of original lengths of gauge sight tubing from King Sealy that one of their employees found in their building basement so that I could rebuild some gas and oil gauges. There was a surprising amount of variation in the inner diameter of tube to tube.

 

Every one of the known, untouched  gas gauges I've worked on had at least one bass wire in the back tube and it was always the fatter of the three diameters I've found in King Sealy gas gauges, so yeah, someone very likely messed with yours that are without a wire.  

 

You can use different diameter brass wires - available from some model train hobby shops - to calibrate your gauge to a surprising level of accuracy. And they can be made to read within about two quarts, not just a gallon.

 

Another plus about experimenting with calibration wire sizes is that you can mix sizes and number of them so that you have more, or less reserve gas in the tank when the gauge reads zero (empty).  Only problem is that it's time consuming.  You have to disconnect the tank capillary tube at the gauge and then drain the gas tank each time you make a wire change. Then re-zero the gauge level to read empty by threading the brass tube's lock nuts to move the tube up or down before reconnecting the tank capillary tube again and re-fill the tank to see what the level reads. 

 

Paul

Edited September 30, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Dyke's has a couple of columns on these gauges but doesn't mention these bits, as far as I can see with a quick scan.

[Curti]

Thank you Paul. This is a more in-depth and comprehensive answer than I ever expected. In My own cars, I have always set the gauge at empty with a dead empty tank.   At the factory the tank was in the frame and the gauge was in the body.

The lineman merely connected the capillary line at the bottom of the firewall.  The gauge it's self must have been calibrated at King Sealy.   Have you ever attempted to make a  new vial by 'sweating' the capillary tube in the bottom?

 

[Guest]

Spinneyhill        Nevertheless they were in each and every King Sealey gauge unit.  PFitz 's post is exactly correct.

Edited September 30, 2018 by Guest (see edit history)

[Curti]

35 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Dyke's has a couple of columns on these gauges but doesn't mention these bits, as far as I can see with a quick scan.

 Yes, I have a copy of that myself that I send customers. 

[PFitz]

42 minutes ago, Curti said:

Thank you Paul. This is a more in-depth and comprehensive answer than I ever expected. In My own cars, I have always set the gauge at empty with a dead empty tank.   At the factory the tank was in the frame and the gauge was in the body.

The lineman merely connected the capillary line at the bottom of the firewall.  The gauge it's self must have been calibrated at King Sealy.   Have you ever attempted to make a  new vial by 'sweating' the capillary tube in the bottom?

 

 Yes, and I had lots of bent, leaky glass and copper tubes, and burnt fingers, until by trial and error (mostly error), I figured out how to shrink fit and  fuse the glass to new copper capillary tubing.  Now I see that you can buy the sight glass and capillary tube already done, plus repro gauge backs and other gas and oil gauge parts,  at  Classic and Exotic's website.

 

https://www.classicandexotic.com/store/c-85-king-seeley-hobson-fuel-gauge.aspx

 

Paul.

Edited September 30, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[PFitz]

I should have added that to have a reserve, you put however much gas you want as reserve in the tank, then hook up the re-zeroed gauge and refill  the tank to see if it reads full.  If not, add or remove wire "volume" to reduce or increase the cross sectional volume of the liquid in the back tube. 

 

Or, carry a "splinter gauge". I prefer maple dowels for my customers who don't want me to bother getting their gauge working. Just make sure that whatever is used it's too long to get dropped down into the tank. I've pulled out twigs, paint sticks, and pieces of furniture moldings from gas tanks over the years - all too short !!!!

 

Paul 

Edited October 1, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Guest]

The splinter gauge (dipstick)is handy if the car has been sitting for a few weeks and you want to know how much gas you have right now, without having to drive a few miles before the gauge becomes accurate.

[Curti]

Yes,  your idea of putting a gallon of of gas in the tank prior to the gauge installation is a good idea. Nothing the matter with a little reserve.  I know Brian at Classic and Exotic Service.  They are straight tubes are not bent for 34 - 36 Auburn.

I think he buys those tubes from a Ford guy.  He used to buy his manometer fluid from me, until he figured out where I got it. 

[edinmass]

I have never had any luck with the King Sealy set up. Worked very hard and diligently trying to get three of them to work correctly. Probably fifty hours each in three different cars. They would work well for a day or a week, and then..........all over the place. Once in southern Florida I had a 35 Pierce 12 gauge working for about three weeks.........car went in and out around town and all was well. Parked it for a few days keeping an eye on it, all was fine. Then a tropical storm passed over while the car remained stationary in the garage, and the guage went crazy, never to return to the correct setting. While I never give up, there is a limit to how much time one can spend on a fuel gauge when taking care of two dozen pre war cars.......and keeping on top of everything else. I have been told the new fluid today is a diffrent chemical, thus it works but it is not as accurate as the old stuff. I have no idea. Recently looked at a very nice car with a King Sealy fuel gauge parked for twenty years, and the gauge was still reading. A closer inspection showed a sealed tube with fluid, and a hidden electric gauge that swings down from the under dash area when driving. I had been thinking about doing this on several cars. I'm not convinced I have seen any show car that the system is actually working......I'm sure most are rigged to read a set amount....too much at risk on the show circuit to lose out due to a crappy designed fuel gauge. PS- the units we are working on are 148 inch chassis, and I'm not sure that makes a diffrence. Common sense tells me they must have been OK in the day.......too many people used them.

[PFitz]

Ed,

If you had been at the Goshen Connecticut car show,... and seen a black 31 Franklin Convertible Coupe that took best of show, you'd have seen a car (driven a lot) with working King Sealy gas and oil level gauges.

 

One of the problems I found in keeping the gauges accurate is the lack of an additional vent hole in the top of the gauge sender unit's vent tube, well above the fuel level, just below the level of the top of the gas tank. Fords used that extra hole, so I drill them in the gauge units I restore and it helps with maintaining accuracy with some gas caps that don't vent well enough while driving sloshes the more volatile modern  gas around.

 

Gauge consistent accuracy can also can be caused by gas, and/or, moisture or old fuel crude in the tank to gauge capillary tube. Blowing the line out, as King Sealy recommends in their literature, doesn't always work 80-90 years later. I always replace the capillary tube with new, and of the correct smaller ID than some of the tubing offered by King Sealy parts suppliers.  The larger ID replacement capillary tubing can cause problems in gauge systems that originally used a smaller ID capillary tubing.  

 Paul